Guest pops55 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 - no worries Wasn't sure if taking the p or what you see! Me take the p never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) people saying he has brought in too many players, he should go. we give him the ol' boot then a new manager brings in new players and we have 14+ whatever he has brought in so we just arent winning. I say keep Jones for the season and let him work with the squad he has assembled becasue solidarity is what makes people work when they are working with familiar surroundings. DJ came into unfamiliar surroundings last season and got us up with basically the same squad as Megson had assembled.The problems seem to have started when he got the Summer to get his own team recruited. We've seen it many times before in football - same players, different manager, better team. Never under estimate what a different manager can achieve with the same set of players. Edited October 25, 2012 by Almat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 That being the case, what would a new manager be able to achieve with them? Are you advocating, and do you expect, more wholesale changes in a squad that is already bloated by a significant amount of wastage? Some people are so free and easy with the cliches and accepted wisdom they don't even think about what they are saying. I like to read your posts mate - with this one, you do realise you are lining yourself up for the "he's lost the dressing room" statement don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I like to read your posts mate - with this one, you do realise you are lining yourself up for the "he's lost the dressing room" statement don't you? Cliches like that usually demonstrate how reactionary and unthinking some people can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Cliches like that usually demonstrate how reactionary and unthinking some people can be. What are your thoughts on the situation - never mind DJ in/out - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gaffer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Id agree with what most are saying. Ive voiced the same concerns recently. There is no gettin away from the fact that if we do not get maximum points from the next 2 games then Dave Jones will be fired, I think its inevitable. Anything less than 6 points and we will be getting cut adrift. So you have to look at potential candidates, presumably a quick/cheaper appointment (no compo), which would mean the manager would have to be out of work. McCarthy, Davies, Coyle, Curbishley, Redknapp (we can dream). There the only realistic options for me. They all have a track record of gettin teams out of this division, are available and free. I wouldnt really want Coyle personally-dont think he would really inspire the players, and his record at Bolton was terrible.I wouldnt mind Davies, McCarthy, Curbs or Redknapp though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) McCarthy has a far better record than DJ in this League and is currently unemployed. But there will be some on here who don't want him because he played for Barnsley It would get confusing on here with MMs though Edited October 25, 2012 by Almat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I don't want to talk about other managers really but there's one name I've been thinking about for ages & would love him as our manager..... Roland Nilsson. He got sacked as Copenhagen manager in January but won the Sweedish league with Malmo in 2010. Don't think his missus would let him return, would she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euse Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 What are your thoughts on the situation - never mind DJ in/out - He still hasn't given his thoughts on my example of why it's rational & logical thinking to give Dave Jones the next 2 games to turn things around ... I think it is totally with reality. I can't believe you actually put Manchester United in this equation, so let's look at it this way .... If you're a salesman, and you completely outsell everyone in a year & get loads of awards n bonuses etc, you'd rightly get all the praise & extra money you deserve. Say the next year, you start of a bit shacky, start losing certain orders / contracts, but still manage to hit the targets set, no harm done. But then all of a sudden, month after month (let's say 10), you consistently fail to meet your targets and you start to cost the company money by being employed there & not generating enough revenue to justify your existence there. If I was the manager, I'd fully expect them to sit that sales person down & say something along the lines of ' you've had a terrible run of not hitting your targets, the next 2 months provide you with our busiest months of the year (going on past experience, of course) & if you don't hit your targets, I have no option but to sack you'. What's wrong or illogical with that ? Obviously it's not football related, but I think it draws parallels with DJ's situation. If he keeps the guy on, regardless of how he did last year, he'd be consistently costing the company money whereas someone else might do a better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 He still hasn't given his thoughts on my example of why it's rational & logical thinking to give Dave Jones the next 2 games to turn things around ... Against your earlier post, I have to ask you if you saw the BBC/Richard Quest interview with MM, where Mandaric emphasised that football is a business and it has to be run as a business. he stated that if people don't cut it, they have to be disposed of, even if it is a hard and difficult decision to make and it upsets others. In any business, people are amongst the highest of investments and good businesses cut their losses if they determine they have made a bad investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 He still hasn't given his thoughts on my example of why it's rational & logical thinking to give Dave Jones the next 2 games to turn things around ... Because so much of what he is being judged on is not in his control. He can only gently influence events not dictate them. Judging anyone solely on the result of two games is mind-numbing in it's idiocy and completely dispenses with all the other factors a chairman needs to consider. And it's fraudulent anyway. Let's say we win the next two games. Are all the critics silenced for the next two months or something. Of course they aren't. So the premise is almost set up for him to fail, if not now, then in a couple of weeks' time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euse Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Against your earlier post, I have to ask you if you saw the BBC/Richard Quest interview with MM, where Mandaric emphasised that football is a business and it has to be run as a business. he stated that if people don't cut it, they have to be disposed of, even if it is a hard and difficult decision to make and it upsets others. In any business, people are amongst the highest of investments and good businesses cut their losses if they determine they have made a bad investment. I haven't seen it, but I think it relates to the points I was making very well. Football IS a business & dressing room harmony / atmosphere is pretty much the same if it was to happen in an office (for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsheri Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If Davies came in that would at least make my "shall i renew next season" decision a lot easier. Not a flipping chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Because so much of what he is being judged on is not in his control. He can only gently influence events not dictate them. Judging anyone solely on the result of two games is mind-numbing in it's idiocy and completely dispenses with all the other factors a chairman needs to consider. And it's fraudulent anyway. Let's say we win the next two games. Are all the critics silenced for the next two months or something. Of course they aren't. So the premise is almost set up for him to fail, if not now, then in a couple of weeks' time. There are those on here that have wanted to set DJ up for failure since his first day at the club. Then again there are people that rightly say this is a results based job and it doesn't look too bright for DJ does it based on that point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I haven't seen it, but I think it relates to the points I was making very well. Football IS a business & dressing room harmony / atmosphere is pretty much the same if it was to happen in an office (for example). also, letting your sales manager do the accounts usually doesn't work well either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I like to read your posts mate - with this one, you do realise you are lining yourself up for the "he's lost the dressing room" statement don't you? He clearly hasnt at the moment, when you look at the attitude of our team compared to say, Ipswich. Without using the term "losing the dressing room", it makes more sense to say, is he getting a response from the players and he is at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euse Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Because so much of what he is being judged on is not in his control. He can only gently influence events not dictate them. Judging anyone solely on the result of two games is mind-numbing in it's idiocy and completely dispenses with all the other factors a chairman needs to consider. And it's fraudulent anyway. Let's say we win the next two games. Are all the critics silenced for the next two months or something. Of course they aren't. So the premise is almost set up for him to fail, if not now, then in a couple of weeks' time. I refuse to believe that a manager of a football club can only 'gently influence events'. And nobody is judging him on the result of two forthcoming games, we're judging him on the last 10 with the next two games as a 'line in the sand'. I think it is completely reasonable & logical given all the situations and examples I've provided that Dave Jones be given the next two games to turn things around. If he doesn't, then he deserves to go. You may differ with my argument or opinion, which is fine, but dismissing them so flippantly is pretty arrogant & narrow-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 He clearly hasnt at the moment, when you look at the attitude of our team compared to say, Ipswich. Without using the term "losing the dressing room", it makes more sense to say, is he getting a response from the players and he is at the moment. Certainly the last two performances indicate an improved performance - but where are the goals - over to you trevi9...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euse Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 also, letting your sales manager do the accounts usually doesn't work well either! Accounts - no. Profit generation & company progression - yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 And nobody is judging him on the result of two forthcoming games, we're judging him on the last 10 with the next two games as a 'line in the sand'. I think it is completely reasonable & logical given all the situations and examples I've provided that Dave Jones be given the next two games to turn things around. If he doesn't, then he deserves to go. If he wins the next two games, he stays. If he loses them both, he goes. Yes, I can see how the previous 10 games impact that. Have the courage of your convictions instead. Should Jones be sacked or not? Make an assessment on what he's done in the past, what he's doing now and what he's likely to do in the future. In all aspects of his responsibilities, not just the results of games. Don't wimp out and throw it into the lap of fate (and those who think anyone can ever have control over something so fleeting and with so many variables is a fool). Your method could be making an enormous mistake either way. A poor manager might keep his job because for a couple of games he got lucky or a good one could be removed for the opposite reason. With this method, the chairman can stay at home, ignore all the other performance indicators and just look in the paper for the next couple of weeks. This element of the operation could be handled just as adequately by a toddler. And you wonder why I'm incredulous? And as I've already pointed out, the whole premise is fraudulent anyway. Losing the two games will no doubt increase the clamour for a sacrificial lamb, but will winning them end the matter? Not a chance. The mob will extinguish their torches, but they'll keep them and the lighters close at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now