senwar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I referred to Megson because all the work had already been done for jones last year. We were fit, organised, hard to break down, good from set pieces, had a great team ethic. On top of that we signed Antonio and beat the pigs to set up a great run Not getting into the so and so v Megson debate again - but presume you saw the 4 consecutive defeats before the Blades game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrbuk Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 We just need a bit of luck, we've had none but have steadily gone from being a shambles to playing good football and not getting results. A penalty and playing against 10 men on Friday - different game, but it didn't go our way, the penalty not given at wolves, the dodgy one given to Huddersfield and the palace incident... the list is very long at the minute but the law of averages says we should get our own luck over the course of the season. I'm prepared to stick with Jones, I think the squad he's assembled has a lot of prospect and is turning us into a potentially profitable organisation - long time since that's happened. Jones has said all along, he's a builder, take away the bad luck and everyone would think he was god - good size squad, young talent bought for tuppence, decent results - the future rosy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pops55 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 So we could say get 4 points, be out of bottom 3 but because we've not won both he'd have to go? How can we get 4 points from 2 games and not win ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest insideowl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You're making the mistake of assuming that somehow a run of nine or ten games will automatically go on repeating itself for the rest of the season. If the game was really that predictable do you think bookmakers would make the vast sums they do or pundits would repeatedly make themselves look so stupid? Your being naive thinking it couldn't. Wake up, we've got 2 points out of 27. Out of the next 27 points I expect us to get far more but even if it trebles that's still relegation form. Let me ask you this. If at the end of last season I asked you how many points do you think we'd have by this stage, how many would you say? If I then said we are going to sign 20 players next season, with a handful having premiership experience, how many points would you then expect us to have? I don't know you or what your expectations for us this season are but I expect its more than what we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senwar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 How can we get 4 points from 2 games and not win ? read it again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest insideowl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Not getting into the so and so v Megson debate again - but presume you saw the 4 consecutive defeats before the Blades game? I did yeh. We had no Marshall no Antonio. 2 players who were highly influential throughout last season. We lost 3 in 25 games in the league before Megson got sacked. Yet everyone remembers them 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senwar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I did yeh. We had no Marshall no Antonio. 2 players who were highly influential throughout last season. We lost 3 in 25 games in the league before Megson got sacked. Yet everyone remembers them 3 games. We've got Antonio now - so by that comment, we should be OK? We'd also won only 2 in the previous 10. Lets forget that as well. The run is unacceptable - the constant references back to Megson - ludicrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I can perfectly understand why some fans would want to see a change of manager. It looks like yet another relegation battle in a division that has given us a kicking after kicking since we were relegated from the Prem back in 2000. When you are on the kind of run we are currently on it's hard to keep a sense of perspective but here goes. We have played the relegated sides from last seasons Prem. 1 at home and 2 away. We've lost each of them by one goal and one of those sides we played last season in the league cup and got stuffed. So there is relative progress there, is there not? Of all the league games we've lost only Brighton is a game where we've lost heavily. You could say Huddersfield but effectively we lost to 2 penalty kicks. All the rest have been by one goal so as DJ keeps saying the line between success and failure at this level is very fine and unfortunately we have found ourselves the wrong side of it many times. When you consider some of the decisions that have been going against us then it's been even harder to take. The handball decision last week against Leeds was unbelievable and I'm coming to the conclusion we wouldn't even get a penalty if one of our lads was shot in the area by the opposition? Also we seemingly only have to fart in our own area on an opposition player and the referee can't wait to blow for a penalty against us? It's all very frustrating but I can't help thinking that Dave Jones is still the right man to take us forward. We are playing decent football. We've got some good young players in the first team squad and some up and coming ones in the development squad. Everything looks healthy apart from the current 2nd from bottom placing in the championship and I just feel we are one good result from turning it all around. Hopefully we'll get that result on Saturday at Ipswich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRUCE LEE Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 read it again.... Ahhh he thought he had you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I've not been happy with the results over the last 10 games, who would be? I've also asked the same questions of jones. But over the last 4 games some of the issues seem to be being addressed, were not as bad as we were a few weeks ago. I think getting rid now would be an error as we are on the cusp of potentially getting it right and the players seem to be wanting to set it right. If results don't get better in the next two games though then I think jones' chance may have passed and losing two crucial games will have a terrible impact on the whole club. We have no choice but to be positive and stick together ahead of these two crucial games though. Edited October 25, 2012 by Bluesteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pops55 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You're making the mistake of assuming that somehow a run of nine or ten games will automatically go on repeating itself for the rest of the season. If the game was really that predictable do you think bookmakers would make the vast sums they do or pundits would repeatedly make themselves look so stupid? Bookmakers, however, do give odds on current form and therefore make certain assumptions based on that form, like people on here are doing on DJ's possible sacking. There will be odds on his future tenure at SW and i bet (pardon the pun) the're not good for DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pops55 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 read it again.... Ok then i would suggest if it takes us more than 2 games to get 4 points we will not be out of the bottom 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest insideowl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 We've got Antonio now - so by that comment, we should be OK? We'd also won only 2 in the previous 10. Lets forget that as well. The run is unacceptable - the constant references back to Megson - ludicrous Different team, circumstances and styles now so no it doesn't mean we should be ok but neither can you compare the two. 2 in 10 including cup games? Did we really care about them? I'm talking league. This run is unacceptable. Jewell got sacked yesterday for the same run, we should be following suit. People say jones is a good manager but never back it up with anything. I don't see what he's brought to Sheffield Wednesday this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Your being naive thinking it couldn't. Wake up, we've got 2 points out of 27. Out of the next 27 points I expect us to get far more but even if it trebles that's still relegation form. Let me ask you this. If at the end of last season I asked you how many points do you think we'd have by this stage, how many would you say? If I then said we are going to sign 20 players next season, with a handful having premiership experience, how many points would you then expect us to have? I don't know you or what your expectations for us this season are but I expect its more than what we currently have. Who says I'm thinking it couldn't? But there are plenty of people being very definite about the opposite. One example, in response to the suggestion that Jones be safe until Christmas, was that we would be 15 points behind by then. Pure fantasy by a misery fulfilling his own prophecies for his own issues of self-worth. When Irvine's and Laws' tenures were coming to their end the lack of hope was palpable. I don't get that kind of sense at the moment with Jones. As for the number of points expected - who cares? I refused to get involved with all that anyway as I recognised from the outset that it would be pure guesswork, especially given the large turnover of players. Such predictions are meaningless and do not deal with the here and now. This is not a computer game where random and sweeping decisions can be easily made with little serious consequence. A much more measured approach is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senwar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Ok then i would suggest if it takes us more than 2 games to get 4 points we will not be out of the bottom 3. Did you read it again? And then still get it wrong? So we could say get 4 points, be out of bottom 3 but because we've not won both he'd have to go? One win, one draw = 4 points = not won both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fedor Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I hold Dave Jones in very high regard after last season. I would love him to turn it around, I really would. But as others have said some of the players he has brought in are not up to it. Why does he keep dropping our best striker for a lightweight who doesn't appear to give a crap (despite his chomping at the bit media comments.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0114 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I disagree with the time to go. I feel all we are lacking is a finisher and someone with a better delivery than Antonio. He has made good signings and he's obviously took a few risks with signings. He worked wonders with Cardiff with no budget. And when your a club like us who isn't looking for instant success with an average budget you have to bide time with your manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The number of people pinning everything on the next two games is quite staggering. No moderation, no subtlety, no appraisal. I appreciate that a lousy run has put us in this position but to essentially throw the future of the club up into the air and hope that luck sees you through is breathtaking in it's lack of pragmatism. It's thinking so lacking in complexity that a four year old could just as easily be chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 agreed. however our next 2 games are crucial to our season & if we fail he should be sacked. You can't make a decision on any 'particular' games. You have to look at performances overall - good and bad. You also have to consider, practically, what you (as Chairman) expected with your budget/recruitment. You also have to consider realistic alternatives? Doncaster sacked O'Driscoll - then gave options to the new manager, Saunders. Massive mistake IMO. The number of people pinning everything on the next two games is quite staggering. No moderation, no subtlety, no appraisal. I appreciate that a lousy run has put us in this position but to essentially throw the future of the club up into the air and hope that luck sees you through is breathtaking in it's lack of pragmatism. It's thinking so lacking in complexity that a four year old could just as easily be chairman. Beat me to it. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You can't make a decision on any 'particular' games. You have to look at performances overall - good and bad. You also have to consider, practically, what you (as Chairman) expected with your budget/recruitment. You also have to consider realistic alternatives? Doncaster sacked O'Driscoll - then gave options to the new manager, Saunders. Massive mistake IMO. Beat me to it. Again. No ! We need a simple graph that even the drunk can understand. Number of games on one axis, number of points on the other. Everything else is much too complicated. #sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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