The Academy

[Guest Deleted member]

The Academy is a fairly regular topic for discussion on Owlstalk, and quite recently there was the criticism from the poster who was claiming his lad had regularly been overlooked and yet United had picked him up - so when I saw Dean Ramsdale the head of our Academy at the recent Foundation event I got chatting - and he invited me down to go through things in more detail. Ive been down there this afternoon, and I will summarise what we discussed below. 

 

Before I do can I just say that what I'm writing here is my personal recollection of our meeting, and also take the time to thank Dean for 90 minutes of his time this afternoon in what was a very enlightening discussion.

 

 

 

SWFC has a category 2 academy. When Dean joined the club it had been subjected to an interim audit and it was at Level 4 status - the lowest status afforded to academies throughout the UK.  In the past there were Academies and Centres of Excellence - there are no longer Centres of Excellence and most of those are now Category 3/4 academies.

 

In England there are around 15 Category 1, and 20 Category 2 academies. Locally Sheffield United and Barnsley are both category 2, the nearest others are at Derby and Nottingham Forest going South, and Leeds in the North. Most academies in the North West are either Category 1 or 3.  This means we are definitely at an advantage when Category 1 academies release players - especially given our links with Man City. This summer we have signed 4 Man City players released from their own academy. When they are released, they don't command a fee.

 

The EPPP (Elite Player Performance Programme) now dictates how all academies at the various categories are run - and how much money has to be invested by the various clubs in order to attract the grant funding provided by the Premier League.  The finances surround the EPPP programme are all in the public domain - here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

 

Basically - any club (not just the elite) can attract other players to their own academies - but not without compensation being paid to the Academy that is losing the registration. So - for example - if my son was 16, he had been with the Wednesday Academy since he was 9, he would have 7 years service, and therefore Wednesday would receive a minimum of £109,000 for him. Thats worked out at 3 years at £3k each for years 9-11, and 4 years at £25k each. That is because we are a category 2 academy. If we were a Category 3 Academy that payment would be £69,000. Additionally, should he begin to make first team appearances Wednesday would be compensated again.10 games in the Premier League would net us an additional £150k, with another £150k for every 10 games until he's achieved 60 appearances, with another £100k for each 10 appearances right through to 100 games.

 

Total for producing a Premiership player who is snatched away at 16 years old - £1.3m in appearance money plus the £109k in compensation.

 

Obviously thats still not a brilliant deal - £1.5m is very cheap for producing a Premiership player - but the Premier League clubs do take a risk in signing them up.

 

The appearances aren't racked up when a player is out on loan - and this prevents clubs from buying up all the talent and loaning them out (a la Barkley I suppose) in order to reduce compensation to the clubs who lost the player they trained.

 

Obviously the system can be abused somewhat - but I get the feeling the clubs in the Football League weren't offered much of a choice by the Premier League. 

 

Additionally compensation will also be paid to us should the player be transferred with an accompanying fee before their 23rd birthday - at 20% of the fee (less the items referred to above).  Again any fees associated with loan deals also attract a compensation element.  Additionally we will be compensated at 5% of ALL subsequent fees generated from transfers for the players career.

 

 

 

Bear in mind all of the above relates to just one player. Our academy currently has approximately 120 players on the books.  The Academy costs the club approx £490k per year, and attracts an additional £490k in grant funding from the Premier League.

 

 

With regards specifically our own academy - when Dean joined the club our Academy structure was under funded. Dave Jones brought him in with the intention to restructure everything, and DJ's long term vision was for the Academy to retain the current Middlewood Rd training ground, with the senior players relocated to the old Bank recreation ground up at Dore. His vision was for the training dome to be replaced with housing for recruits to the Academy who lived outside the current 1.5hour exclusion zone (we can't take players who live more than 1.5 hours away).  The Academy artificial pitches also require additional funding to bring them up to the required level.

 

We've gone from an Academy staff of 'one man and his dog' to 20 full time staff and a similar amount of part time coaches. When I asked if they were all on holiday now the season had finished he laughed - apparently we have scouts at 26 tournaments this weekend watching players.

 

Deans team have made a specific effort to attract talent from the 7-9 age group - as these players can be picked up and nurtured from a very early age where they don't attract a fee. With this in mind it really is a long term plan with regards to developing a team of our own recruits - but he points to some successes already in players playing well above their perceived level. The manager decides as and when they are ready for first team action.

 

The club has developed (along with all clubs in the football league) a club charter which includes a 'Wednesday Way' of playing - and this is communicated throughout the club structure from first team to U9's. Set pieces conform - meaning a player like Jack Stobbs can play for the first team potentially straight from the U14's and know exactly what to expect when a player sets up for a corner in a certain way.  Coaches are recruited for the way they can fit into this style of play - and presumably managers too.

 

Dean can't for the life of him understand how parents of kids who are Wednesday fans allow their kids to go and play for United any more. He was brought up with Burnley and their parents would rather their kids didn't play football at all than play for Blackburn. We have an Academy now that is the same Category as Uniteds (and that is independently assessed), the coaches are different, everything is different, there is a defined path to progression from Academy to first team, there really is no reason for any Wednesday fan to take his kid to Shirecliffe.  (I share that view) In the old days I took my own lad to Shirecliffe for goalkeeping training because Wednesday didn't provide it.

 

 

 

As the meeting was coming to an end Neil Thompson joined us. Neil was at the Leeds Academy for 7 years and during that time he was responsible for developing £42m worth of sales of their young talent. While that level of sales would not be possible under EPPP - it is still more than viable for that talent to be produced and play in our first team. Not ALL players will be developed and move on - as they will see there is a much better chance of them progressing to the first team with Wednesday than Man United. 

 

First team appearances really add to a players value in future years. Look at Liam Palmer. And of course we all know Harry McGuire is worth £200 million - and hes playing in the 3rd division...

 

 

 

Off the top of my head thats pretty much what was discussed - if I remember any more I will happily add to this. Hope you found it informative - and hopefully it will allay some of your fears that all of our players can move on and we will only ever see £130k for them.

[Guest mkowl]

Thanks for that Nigel - good stuff to read. In terms of the original poster on that original thread did they acknowledge that communication is perhaps an issue that could be improved ?

[townend_owl]

+1

[royalowlisback]

That's quality feedback.

 

Thanks for posting - learned quite a bit.

 

Cheers Grandad

[Southernblues]

Good post Nigel

 

My son was in the under 18 team a few years back when Paul Sturrock was in charge of the club and Mark Smith ran the team, it didn't seem that bad at the time compared to his previous club Derby County

 

Lets hope we can produce good local footballers who really have the desire to play for our club

[KivoOwl]

Good read, cheers.

I know Milane and Dave Jones had a LOT of work to do to get the academy up to scratch with the introduction of EPPP, which, by the way, is the biggest load of bullshit in football.

A friend of mine has a son in the U7 age range and he raves about the set-up and how much he enjoys it.

Edited May 6, 2014 by KivoOwl

[Captain Sl-OWL-ly]

Thanks for this Grandad it makes very interesting reading, will it be posted and saved in another part of OT so we can reference it if we should ever need to ?

[royalowlisback]

As above^^^^ Needs to be made a Sticky.

[Last_Great_Hope]

 

The club has developed (along with all clubs in the football league) a club charter which includes a 'Wednesday Way' of playing - and this is communicated throughout the club structure from first team to U9's. Set pieces conform - meaning a player like Jack Stobbs can play for the first team potentially straight from the U14's and know exactly what to expect when a player sets up for a corner in a certain way.  Coaches are recruited for the way they can fit into this style of play - and presumably managers too.

 

 

 

Dear God, I hope the "style" of defending hasnt been filtered down through the academy!

[Guest conisbrough]

Excellent post.

 

Out of interest did you discuss any individuals, names to look out for in the future.

[Guest Deleted member]

:-(

 

A few names were mentioned but I can't for the life of me remember who!

 

I'm not called Grandad for nowt you know...

[Ronnie Starling]

It should be pinned with a header "If you are a Wednesday fan and have a talented footballing son then read this"

[KivoOwl]

Excellent post.

Out of interest did you discuss any individuals, names to look out for in the future.

Josh Stachini

Jack Stobbs

Mason Duffy

George Hirst

[theowlsman]

Must admit I've not read all that Grandad but I thank you for taking the trouble to share.

+1

[NormOwl]

They're seems to have been various bits and pieces on Twitter whereby the perception was that the club wasn't responding to trials etc, did they say anything about the administration the club operates

[Guest Deleted member]

They're seems to have been various bits and pieces on Twitter whereby the perception was that the club wasn't responding to trials etc, did they say anything about the administration the club operates

Yes, and thanks for the prompt

 

Every player thats come through our academy, even just for a trial in the last 2 years has been recorded and with notes regarding all aspects of that player. I believe the player in question that prompted the discussion a few weeks ago wasn't as recently as the original post suggested - it was a couple of years ago. When Lee Bullen looked into the matter he asked several coaches what notes were held on said player - which is how it came to light that the club had been contacted and the club had not passed on the enquiry. This is fairly common but we are insistent on doing things the right way - and not tapping up.

 

 

Apparently some other Academies might not act that way.

 

Regards current players in the Academy system - they all have a dossier and every single visit to the Academy is fed back on - its an online system that has to be updated by the coaches after every visit meaning the players are constantly fed back to and have access to it onlione. The parents have a 'parents evening' twice a season, again all recorded.  All of the info is recorded centrally meaning that records are passed on if registrations are passed on too - this means any medical info etc is available to all clubs too - which is clearly hugely important.

[Owl999]

Josh Stachini

Jack Stobbs

Mason Duffy

George Hirst

You can stick Brad Beatson on that list, you seem to have missed him off.

[dinno]

I agree i hate Wednesdayite's playing for United

But believe me it works both ways and there's loads of blades at Wednesday has well

I think once there in and settled in with there mates they don't want to move

That's why it's so important to get them in at a early age

[brownowl91]

Yes, and thanks for the prompt

Every player thats come through our academy, even just for a trial in the last 2 years has been recorded and with notes regarding all aspects of that player. I believe the player in question that prompted the discussion a few weeks ago wasn't as recently as the original post suggested - it was a couple of years ago. When Lee Bullen looked into the matter he asked several coaches what notes were held on said player - which is how it came to light that the club had been contacted and the club had not passed on the enquiry. This is fairly common but we are insistent on doing things the right way - and not tapping up.

Apparently some other Academies might not act that way.

Regards current players in the Academy system - they all have a dossier and every single visit to the Academy is fed back on - its an online system that has to be updated by the coaches after every visit meaning the players are constantly fed back to and have access to it onlione. The parents have a 'parents evening' twice a season, again all recorded. All of the info is recorded centrally meaning that records are passed on if registrations are passed on too - this means any medical info etc is available to all clubs too - which is clearly hugely important.

That's a fair point and true reflection! Other clubs will not hesitate in contacting parents direct in the 7-9 age group for sure! This led to the confusion and is something that needs looking at. 7-9 though young as pointed out earlier is a important age to recruit and we need to be as aggressive as other clubs

[Guest _Ibbo_]

Are the club still looking at Midland bank pitches ? once played on them. They are utterly superb.