ENGLAND VS GERMANY - Official Matchday Thread

[CircleSeven]

It’s nice to be discussing a win isn’t it?

Fair play to Southgate. He answered his critics and setting up to stifle the opposition and then changing things with 20 mins to go and getting on the front foot actually worked. Obviously we rode our luck a bit with the Muller miss but even that was a break from a mistake by Sterling, not a result of relentless German pressure. We do have a lot of good attacking players and even class players like Sancho can’t even get on the pitch. I watched Ukraine-Sweden and we do have it in us to beat Ukraine. Really we should beat the winners of Czech-Denmark too (should , not will). I’d be disappointed from here if we don’t get to the final. 
But, the final will almost certainly feature Belgium, Italy or Spain. That’s going to be a tough, tough fixture.

The route to the final is there for us. But wining it is as tough as ever…

[latemodelchild]

Beating Germany 2 nil and moaning about how we did it though. 

[Big Jack]

2 minutes ago, latemodelchild said:

Beating Germany 2 nil and moaning about how we did it though. 

Thats the English mentality. 

[Southie_Owl]

10 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

Thats the English mentality. 

I bet some moan that we should have beaten the Germans within the 90 minutes back in 66, “a better defensive coach would have kept a clean sheet” 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

I bet some moan that we should have beaten the Germans within the 90 minutes back in 66, “a better defensive coach would have kept a clean sheet” 

 

16 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

Thats the English mentality. 

 

19 minutes ago, latemodelchild said:

Beating Germany 2 nil and moaning about how we did it though. 

All totally missing the point. Imagine if Pickford hadn’t made one of those two class saves and so we go behind and end up going out. We’d be pretty annoyed that we at least didn’t try and use the wealth of attacking talent we have.

 

We aren’t playing the probabilities. Our fans saying it’s all about the result are the same ones that were supporting Garry Monk after 8 points from the first 5 games last season and then wanting to throw him under the bus when we lost the next 4. Reality was there had been no difference in approach, but the margins had gone against us whereas before they had gone for us.

 

If you put teams to bed by a few goals, which England are capable of, you take the fine margins out of the equation. We’re leaving it to chance by playing in this way.

[Southie_Owl]

18 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

 

 

All totally missing the point. Imagine if Pickford hadn’t made one of those two class saves and so we go behind and end up going out. We’d be pretty annoyed that we at least didn’t try and use the wealth of attacking talent we have.

 

We aren’t playing the probabilities. Our fans saying it’s all about the result are the same ones that were supporting Garry Monk after 8 points from the first 5 games last season and then wanting to throw him under the bus when we lost the next 4. Reality was there had been no difference in approach, but the margins had gone against us whereas before they had gone for us.

 

If you put teams to bed by a few goals, which England are capable of, you take the fine margins out of the equation. We’re leaving it to chance by playing in this way.

That is an assumption,  Portugal went for goals against Germany and conceded 4 at the other end.  Germany have a lot of goal scoring threat themselves, if we’d had it your way and went to score a few goals we could have easily conceded a few ourselves. Would you have preferred us to be knocked out 3-4, or win 2-0 playing conservatively? Those are the major calls Southgate has to make, I don’t envy his position at all.  He literally can’t win.  

[FreshOwl]

Why is debating the match moaning? 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

3 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

That is an assumption,  Portugal went for goals against Germany and conceded 4 at the other end.  Germany have a lot of goal scoring threat themselves, if we’d had it your way and went to score a few goals we could have easily conceded a few ourselves. Would you have preferred us to be knocked out 3-4, or win 2-0 playing conservatively? Those are the major calls Southgate has to make, I don’t envy his position at all.  He literally can’t win.  

100% agree. We could conversely say what if that first half shot from Sterling hadn't been brilliantly saved or Kane had shot first time and scored with that first half chance.

 

In '66 we had the same , folk moaning over over Greaves not reclaiming his place from Hurst and Nobby Stiles in midfield. I'll settle for that ultimate result.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

11 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

That is an assumption,  Portugal went for goals against Germany and conceded 4 at the other end.  Germany have a lot of goal scoring threat themselves, if we’d had it your way and went to score a few goals we could have easily conceded a few ourselves. Would you have preferred us to be knocked out 3-4, or win 2-0 playing conservatively? Those are the major calls Southgate has to make, I don’t envy his position at all.  He literally can’t win.  

Obviously it was all about getting through, and Germany are one of the better teams. The 2-0 flattered us I thought but it’s impossible not to look at it through the lens of the result we got, which was a very good one.

 

This isn’t just about yesterday though.. we’ve played 5 games in June before yesterday and won 4 of them 1-0 and drew the other 0-0. With the exception of Croatia it was all against weak opposition too.

 

My concern is that we could give Ukraine and Denmark/Czechs a chance if we’re doing the 0-0 and 1-0 thing.. wouldn’t take much to end up drawing and out on pens. Whereas attack and beating them comfortably should be possible given the relative strength of the squads.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

11 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

Why is debating the match moaning? 

I suppose you could say that all moans are merely debating points. "Southgate is an awful manager", "terrible team selection"........ moans or debating points after that win? Take your pick.

[FreshOwl]

5 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

I suppose you could say that all moans are merely debating points. "Southgate is an awful manager", "terrible team selection"........ moans or debating points after that win? Take your pick.

saying he’s an awful manager isn’t debate I agree, but debating the team selection is. Football is all about opinions.
 

There’s a variety of formations and personnel we could choose to go with, of course that will invite debate 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

Just now, FreshOwl said:

saying he’s an awful manager isn’t debate I agree, but debating the team selection is. Football is all about opinions.
 

There’s a variety of formations and personnel we could choose to go with, of course that will invite debate 

Agreed, I did say take your pick to be fair. Again "awful selection", one person's moan; another's debating point.

 

Me? Like I said, happened in '66. I'll take that ultimate result.

[TommyCraig]

Some of the earlier comments in this thread didn't age well did they? 

Can't really blame folks. It's the scar tissue from a full lifetime of letdown from our national team. 

I am however slightly optimistic. Our defence has been grade 1 and we've found a way to score in 3 of the 4 games so far. It's probably the right way to play knockout football. I do think Grealish has looked great when he comes on, the creative spark we need at 0-0 or even to claw a goal back if we go behind. If he starts and we're not winning after 60 minutes, we don't have that boost to bring on when the game starts opening up. 

I also think Phillips has been immense in midfield often going unnoticed but putting in a huge amount of clever work. 

We are a very hard team to beat, kinda like an Italy of old. 

I think we can do it, go all the way, and that's not just the usual blind optimism but a genuine belief that we're good enough. 

[CircleSeven]

15 minutes ago, TommyCraig said:

Some of the earlier comments in this thread didn't age well did they? 

Can't really blame folks. It's the scar tissue from a full lifetime of letdown from our national team. 

I am however slightly optimistic. Our defence has been grade 1 and we've found a way to score in 3 of the 4 games so far. It's probably the right way to play knockout football. I do think Grealish has looked great when he comes on, the creative spark we need at 0-0 or even to claw a goal back if we go behind. If he starts and we're not winning after 60 minutes, we don't have that boost to bring on when the game starts opening up. 

I also think Phillips has been immense in midfield often going unnoticed but putting in a huge amount of clever work. 

We are a very hard team to beat, kinda like an Italy of old. 

I think we can do it, go all the way, and that's not just the usual blind optimism but a genuine belief that we're good enough. 

I think the point about using Grealish as an impact sub is a very good one, particularly against the very good sides like Germany. If he’d have started we might have been 4-0 up by the 60 min mark. But I doubt it. Bringing on a player like that with half an hour to go can be devastating to the opponents. We also have Sancho, Foden, Mount, Bellingham, Rashford and Calvert Lewin to bring on. I have never seen an England side with this many game changing options off the bench! 
Next up is Ukraine who I would assume will sit pretty deep so maybe a start for Grealish will be in the plan.

[toppOwl]

Not sure whats caused it but there seems to be a bit of a shift in this tournament - Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Portugal the usual front runners in this tournament haven't looked anywhere near their best (the first two being the obvious pick of the bunch), the Netherlands have flattered to deceive, Belgium are looking like showing some of the promise they've been threatening for a while but the rest seem to have moved up a notch or two (Denmark, Czechs, Swiss etc) its actually made it a better tournament as we haven't had many of the lifeless games with underdogs playing for a draw and pens, I've seen nothing to be unduly worried about in the teams that are left, that's not to disrespect them, we'll have to put in a good performance against any of them, the real test of Englands mettle could be if we go behind in a game, I'm fairly confident we'll get past Ukraine and the game after with home advantage should see us reach the final (hopefully).

[TommyCraig]

3 minutes ago, CircleSeven said:

I think the point about using Grealish as an impact sub is a very good one, particularly against the very good sides like Germany. If he’d have started we might have been 4-0 up by the 60 min mark. But I doubt it. Bringing on a player like that with half an hour to go can be devastating to the opponents. We also have Sancho, Foden, Mount, Bellingham, Rashford and Calvert Lewin to bring on. I have never seen an England side with this many game changing options off the bench! 
Next up is Ukraine who I would assume will sit pretty deep so maybe a start for Grealish will be in the plan.

Yes, that subs bench is encouraging isn't it. 

[CircleSeven]

1 minute ago, TommyCraig said:

Yes, that subs bench is encouraging isn't it. 

Indeed. If we do go all of the way it will be by the strategic use of the Bench when we are in a tight spot. I can’t image how it must feel to be a defender, tiring after a tough hour or so, and see Grealish, Sancho and Foden warming up! 

[Guest Hornsby]

Working in Europe, spare ticket PM please.

[Matt_1]

2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

 

 

All totally missing the point. Imagine if Pickford hadn’t made one of those two class saves and so we go behind and end up going out. We’d be pretty annoyed that we at least didn’t try and use the wealth of attacking talent we have.

 

We aren’t playing the probabilities. Our fans saying it’s all about the result are the same ones that were supporting Garry Monk after 8 points from the first 5 games last season and then wanting to throw him under the bus when we lost the next 4. Reality was there had been no difference in approach, but the margins had gone against us whereas before they had gone for us.

 

If you put teams to bed by a few goals, which England are capable of, you take the fine margins out of the equation. We’re leaving it to chance by playing in this way.

It’s all ifs and buts though. 
 

If Scotland had scored.

If Croatia had scored. 
If Germany had scored.

If the Czech Republic had scored.

 

None of them did. That’s not leaving anything to chance. 
 

You don’t get 4 clean sheets on the bounce through luck and chance. 
 

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

3 minutes ago, Matt_1 said:

It’s all ifs and buts though. 
 

If Scotland had scored.

If Croatia had scored. 
If Germany had scored.

If the Czech Republic had scored.

 

None of them did. That’s not leaving anything to chance. 
 

You don’t get 4 clean sheets on the bounce through luck and chance. 
 

 

Exactly the same argument was made when Wednesday were doing ok under Monk when the tactics and style of play were awful. Those arguments disappeared as soon as we had a bad run.

 

Its not quite the same with England as they have more about them, but if we set up and play in this style and don’t make the final, all the people who are currently praising the tactics will hypocritically say why didn’t we attack more given we have all of these good attacking players in the squad.