SOUTHGATE OUT

[Kopparberg]

Best we can hope is that the Scotland game is a reality check for Southgate…. And the players for that matter.  

[scram]

17 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Clutching at straws with the Lampard goal, Germany outclassed us and we were abysmal in the group stage. 

 

 

They had outclassed us for a time - but we got a foothold in the game and had that goal stood then it was a very different half time with that momentum shift 

 

Going in at 2-2 would have given us a huge lift while deflating them

 

You know the saying - goals change games - it's so true

 

But as i said it's about context - just an all round campaign that seemed cursed but some of that was capello's doing with not sorting terry out

 

Also how tf did Upson get so much stick for terry not judging the flight of the ball?

[MF TAZ]

2 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

Football can (does) make fools of all of us

 

I'm well aware that we can win the tournament or even come a plucky runner up and my posts will go in the hall of f*ckwittery fame.

 

And i sincerely hope they do because England winning is way more important to me than whether my analysis proves correct

 

In the grand scheme of things a disappointing draw with Scotland doesn't matter - it's a means to an end

 

If we win i'll party like its 1999

 

I'm desperate for us to win something 

 

All I’ve ever seen of England starts with not qualifying for WC 94, Southgate penalty miss in 96 and the omnishambles ever since so 2018 was a high point. 
 

probably why the Scotland game hasn’t bothered me.

 

bad performance Tuesday and I’ll be getting annoyed

 

England winning a trophy is like Wednesday getting in the PL again, I have very little faith and little reason to have any.

 

my best hopes for England are making a semi final if I’m honest. I’d take that right now if it was offered. 

[MF TAZ]

1 minute ago, Kopparberg said:

Best we can hope is that the Scotland game is a reality check for Southgate…. And the players for that matter.  

Yeah - should be a kick up the bum to play some attacking football. 

[SiJ]

Just be nice to think we have an actual chance of winning one of these tournaments.

 

Even in 2018, it always felt a little too good to be true. Still - not sure you'll ever see a better chance of getting to a final.

 

The one time I do think we were good enough to win was 2004; by far and away the best tournament for the golden generation.

 

Really unlucky there.

Edited June 19, 2021 by SiJ

[MF TAZ]

Surely, France drawing, portugal losing and Spain drawing has put last night into perspective? 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

They had outclassed us for a time - but we got a foothold in the game and had that goal stood then it was a very different half time with that momentum shift 

 

Going in at 2-2 would have given us a huge lift while deflating them

 

You know the saying - goals change games - it's so true

 

But as i said it's about context - just an all round campaign that seemed cursed but some of that was capello's doing with not sorting terry out

 

Also how tf did Upson get so much stick for terry not judging the flight of the ball?

 

Goals do change games but the way we capitulated was frankly embarrassing.

 

Capello was one of the most experienced and successful managers in world football, he had seen and done it all and should have handled the unrest in the camp much better.

 

We drew with USA, drew with Algeria and laboured past Slovenia. Having a great record in qualifying is all well and good but it is tournament finals where it really counts and Capello faired worse than plenty of other lesser names to have done the job.

[SiJ]

2010 is the worst tournament I've seen. 2006 pushed it for boredom, but 2010 was a shambles from start to finish. 2014 was garbage too, but then the team we had at that point was pretty poor.

[scram]

12 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Goals do change games but the way we capitulated was frankly embarrassing.

 

Capello was one of the most experienced and successful managers in world football, he had seen and done it all and should have handled the unrest in the camp much better.

 

We drew with USA, drew with Algeria and laboured past Slovenia. Having a great record in qualifying is all well and good but it is tournament finals where it really counts and Capello faired worse than plenty of other lesser names to have done the job.

 

 

Can't argue with his handling of the terry debacle

 

I said after the first game that the players were sulking and looked like they'd fallen out (which subsequently came to light)

 

That ultimately falls on the manager

[MF TAZ]

I wonder how 2010 would have gone if we beat USA though. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

Can't argue with his handling of the terry debacle

 

I said after the first game that the players were sulking and looked like they'd fallen out (which subsequently came to light)

 

That ultimately falls on the manager

 

And we looked as clueless in at least 2 of the group games in 2010 as we did last night.

[scram]

5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

And we looked as clueless in at least 2 of the group games in 2010 as we did last night.

 

 

probably cos the players were forced to take sides and had a massive split bwteeen them

 

But anyway it's history and can't be changed

 

What we do in this tournament can

[Sova]

1 hour ago, scram said:

Younger fans will look back on that as i do about Mexico 86 and Italia 90

 

To be fair, our path through Italia 90 wasn't totally dissimilar to our path in 2018 until the semis. 

[MF TAZ]

There’s a problem far deeper than any player or manager when you look at performances from 06-16 though. 
 

feels like we could have messi, ronaldo and Salah and pep with klopp as his assistant and somehow we’d be drawing with teams like Austria in the group stages. We had Rooney and capello and couldn’t break down Algeria. 

[MF TAZ]

1 minute ago, Sova said:

 

To be fair, our path through Italia 90 wasn't totally dissimilar to our path in 2018 until the semis. 

Really? 
 

Also we were poor in euro 96 until Gazza scored. 

[scram]

1 minute ago, Sova said:

 

To be fair, our path through Italia 90 wasn't totally dissimilar to our path in 2018 until the semis. 

 

 

yeah but it's more about the opportunity missed rather than the magnificence of performances - and at least we lost to the tournament favourites on penalties in 1990 - after playing them to a standstill

 

people will look back at 2018 as such a wasted opportunity

[MF TAZ]

Why are we crap no matter who manages us and what squad we have? 
 

that’s the real question 

[fudge27]

9 minutes ago, Taz said:

Why are we crap no matter who manages us and what squad we have? 
 

that’s the real question 

Because the FA go for managers who will go with what they say. 

 

They have produced a system that produces robotic coaches who get good reps based on very little and have created a situation via the PL where players are all powerful, even when they are out of form or knackered come the tournaments

[Sova]

10 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

yeah but it's more about the opportunity missed rather than the magnificence of performances - and at least we lost to the tournament favourites on penalties in 1990 - after playing them to a standstill

 

Yes, won't argue with that. I mean, we were close against Croatia, but heck - it's Croatia - and probably not even as good a Croatia team as they had around 2000.

[markg]

Don’t rate Southgate at all but it is impossible to win tournaments with the lack of quality we have at the back and in central defence. 
 

You don’t get anywhere near trophy’s with players like Declan rice in midfield