Monk and the 12 point deduction

[The Wall]

Do I have complete faith in Monk? No.

But, it seems clear to me that for whatever reason, his style wasn't a good fit with some of the players he inherited.

I think they were a good fit with a Steve Bruce type manager i.e. and old head with good man management skills.

Monk seems to be more about discipline and hard work, with less tolerance for players egos.

That will work with some players and not others.

So I'm prepared to give him a chance next season, but he has a lot to prove

[torryowl]

we've had thread after thread after thread on the over paid wasters who need shipping out and when we get a manager who agrees its whats needed  some want him sacked for not winning enough games as he attempts to build a new team with about 10 bob to spend .........it's not monks fault that high earners that dont deliver and are crippling the club with there pay packets are still here ..........

[Chris Apolon]

After CC's 2nd season I remember reading on here from some we were certs to make playoffs again 

 

Back end of Jos' first season I remember reading on here from some we were certs for playoffs. Again

 

At Christmas I remember reading on here from some we were certs for playoff challenge

 

All wrong.

 

My point is saying categorically someone is not right for the job because of a short term look back without knowing the team we will even start with, the tactics or even a fresh season starting (which always throws up surprises) is naive at best.

 

If our first dozen or so games don't go to plan we can still act and still stay up but theres nothing to say Monk can't do that equally or better than any other manager.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't compare the last 6 months where we have had an ageing squad, players frozen out, poor individual performances and most importantly a global pandemic to how we, monk or an unknown team will perform

[Spookone]

I am just hoping Monkman proves us all wrong!

[Dick_Turpin]

18 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't compare the last 6 months where we have had an ageing squad, players frozen out, poor individual performances and most importantly a global pandemic to how we, monk or an unknown team will perform

 

No but you can look at the man management of a squad that was lying 3rd at Christmas and wonder how a, any manager, manager could preside over a poo-show like that. The pandemic didn't affect us  - we were crap before and after it. 

[Chris Apolon]

1 minute ago, rickygoo said:

 

No but you can look at the man management of a squad that was lying 3rd at Christmas and wonder how a, any manager, manager could preside over a poo-show like that. The pandemic didn't affect us  - we were crap before and after it. 

 

I thought we were in a false position at Christmas, at the start of the season I said that we would be mid table and I, for one, would be happy with mid table given the squad we had (objectively of course, subjectively i wanted us top 2!)

 

I'm not sure Monk would be getting the grief he has been had the points accrued been spread across the season and we had still finished where we did.

 

Either way this club has needed a mass rebuild for at least 2 seasons and no manager has had the balls to do it, and Monk has (albeit potentially with the financial impacts hanging over us). Many managers would have walked away from us by now and I for one, personally, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt heading into a fresh new season with a freshened up team.

 

I do however understand those on the other side of the fence even if I disagree

[Dick_Turpin]

2 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I thought we were in a false position at Christmas, at the start of the season I said that we would be mid table and I, for one, would be happy with mid table given the squad we had (objectively of course, subjectively i wanted us top 2!)

 

I'm not sure Monk would be getting the grief he has been had the points accrued been spread across the season and we had still finished where we did.

 

Either way this club has needed a mass rebuild for at least 2 seasons and no manager has had the balls to do it, and Monk has (albeit potentially with the financial impacts hanging over us). Many managers would have walked away from us by now and I for one, personally, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt heading into a fresh new season with a freshened up team.

 

I do however understand those on the other side of the fence even if I disagree

 

And I'm in the funny position of feeling he deserves more time - and coaches - but given he's never got a team promoted I don't expect him to succeed. 

[bigthinrob]

1 hour ago, Grandad said:

 

Which is a fair point

 

But what is stopping us wishing Paxaio a fond farewell - especially when we employ a footballing head of recruitment?

 

 

Yeah, fair point.

 

Especially now the recruitment guys seem to be doing ok.

 

 

[Guest Grandad]

3 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

Yeah, fair point.

 

Especially now the recruitment guys seem to be doing ok.

 

 

 

According to an article with the Chirman - Paixao was only ever responsible for Lees, Bannan Forestieri and Iorfa

 

Which begs the question - WHO THE **** RECOMMENDED PELUPESSY??

[helmut_rooster]

2 hours ago, Bluesteel said:

I saw on twitter the other day a reminder that we lost 6 on the bounce under laws at the start of the season and we stayed up so it’s do able!

 

We might have some company on minus points too

 

Only thing ever seen on Twitter that was true

[bigthinrob]

18 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

No but you can look at the man management of a squad that was lying 3rd at Christmas and wonder how a, any manager, manager could preside over a poo-show like that. The pandemic didn't affect us  - we were crap before and after it. 

I've done a few posts over the past few weeks on this topic & this is my worry as well.

 

Not sure how he rates in the motivational stakes, looking at some of the 'collapses' from reasonable positions.

 

I'm very 50/50 on him. 

 

Not fussed if he goes, ditto if he stays.

 

My only other worry is the fan base is already hugely divided regarding him, which is never a good place to be & doesn't usually end well.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

1 hour ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

  22 hours ago, Jonestown83 said:

Played 25 won 4 drawn 8 lost 13 you’d think it was  monks record but it’s paul cooks up to the turn of the year

Isn’t that still more points though including the draws??

[bigthinrob]

2 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

According to an article with the Chirman - Paixao was only ever responsible for Lees, Bannan Forestieri and Iorfa

 

Which begs the question - WHO THE **** RECOMMENDED PELUPESSY??

 

It's all very convoluted. Who does what? Who's mandate stops where? Obviously Iorfa is a relatively recent signing, so is Paxo working in conjunction with the new guys or separate to? etc etc etc.

 

Re Joey.  I suppose it depends on whether he was recommended as a SQUAD player or a potential regular starter.

 

 

[Chris Apolon]

16 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

And I'm in the funny position of feeling he deserves more time - and coaches - but given he's never got a team promoted I don't expect him to succeed. 

 

Fair point.

 

To be honest I just want a club and team I can be proud of and whilst I wish for consolidation and hope beyond hope Monk is the man to actually take us forward to this point I agree without coaches, players playing as a team and a director. I hope this of any manager who takes over though!

 

I live in Exeter and have many friends who support big clubs and they have fond memories of us. Unfortunately we have a whole generation of football fans who don't even know we exist and it's such a shame.

[torryowl]

17 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

And I'm in the funny position of feeling he deserves more time - and coaches - but given he's never got a team promoted I don't expect him to succeed. 

He'll have to be here a long time if he's  going to get us promoted.....if he can keep us on an even keel for 2 or3 years while the other issues or sorted out then to me would make him successful. 

[Dick_Turpin]

3 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

Fair point.

 

To be honest I just want a club and team I can be proud of and whilst I wish for consolidation and hope beyond hope Monk is the man to actually take us forward to this point I agree without coaches, players playing as a team and a director. I hope this of any manager who takes over though!

 

I live in Exeter and have many friends who support big clubs and they have fond memories of us. Unfortunately we have a whole generation of football fans who don't even know we exist and it's such a shame.

 

And I now live in Leeds.

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

@YesWeCrann - I think there might be something a little misleading in that article: where you say, 'Despite the transfer restrictions and points deduction, Monk’s Birmingham finished 12 points clear of the bottom three that year, comfortably mid-table and actually with six points more than they’d gotten the season before.'

 

They finished on 52 points in 18/19 after the 9 point deduction, so they actually achieved 15 points more than they had in the previous season (46).

 

It's a minor point, but it's a fairer measure of their progress on the pitch under Monk and probably should be highlighted?

Edited August 2, 2020 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

@YesWeCrann - I think there might be a mistake, or at least something a little misleading in that article: where you say, 'Despite the transfer restrictions and points deduction, Monk’s Birmingham finished 12 points clear of the bottom three that year, comfortably mid-table and actually with six points more than they’d gotten the season before.'

 

They finished on 52 points in 18/19 after the 9 point deduction, so they actually achieved 15 points more than they had in the previous season (46).

 

It's a minor point, but it's a fairer measure of their progress on the pitch under Monk.

Well done Garry Monk - that's a proper achievement

[Chris Apolon]

4 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

And I now live in Leeds.

 

 

I don't envy you. I know a few leeds fans and they're nearly as obnoxious as Newcastle fans when it comes to how mighty their club is.

 

One club city syndrome

[the third man]

1 hour ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

Yes and Atkinson's 5 defeats out of our last 6 games to relegate us in his second season in charge. Different story the next season.

 

Could you not see something in that Atkinsons team though, relegated or not, even when we lost to Forest we just didnt roll over like we have done so many times in the second half of the season