Monk and the 12 point deduction

[bladeshater]

26 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

According to an article with the Chirman - Paixao was only ever responsible for Lees, Bannan Forestieri and Iorfa

 

Which begs the question - WHO THE **** RECOMMENDED PELUPESSY??

I'm more concerned who recommended Jones abdi and van aken

[Animis]

14 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

@YesWeCrann - I think there might be something a little misleading in that article: where you say, 'Despite the transfer restrictions and points deduction, Monk’s Birmingham finished 12 points clear of the bottom three that year, comfortably mid-table and actually with six points more than they’d gotten the season before.'

 

They finished on 52 points in 18/19 after the 9 point deduction, so they actually achieved 15 points more than they had in the previous season (46).

 

It's a minor point, but it's a fairer measure of their progress on the pitch under Monk and probably should be highlighted?

 

I seem to recall that Brum fans were, on the whole, very complementary about Monk and his team. Maybe it's the arrival of the latter that will trigger Monk to achieve that accolade from the SWFC fans.

[the third man]

3 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

I seem to recall that Brum fans were, on the whole, very complementary about Monk and his team. Maybe it's the arrival of the latter that will trigger Monk to achieve that accolade from the SWFC fans.

 

that will be difficult, he fell out with one of them and the other would rather be sat at home getting paid by Birmingham than come join Monk

 

The only hope is that Beattie's contract with Birmingham runs out and he wants to earn some money

[the third man]

2 hours ago, torryowl said:

jack charlton had 5WINS in the first  26 GAMES of the 78/79 season  as we sat in the relegation places in the 3rd division perhaps we should have sacked him instead of giving him time to build a team that got us promoted 18 months later .....

 

But you could see what he was trying to achieve, i cant see what monk is trying to achieve except get us relegated

Edited August 2, 2020 by the third man

[sage owl]

4 minutes ago, bladeshater said:

I'm more concerned who recommended Jones abdi and van aken

Tbh Jones and boyd had really good careers our recruitment team failed to realise that they were past it, van aken  God knows. Abdi just had to be crooked.

[sage owl]

Just now, the third man said:

 

But you see what he was trying to achieve, i cant see what monk is trying to achieve except get us relegated

You seriously think that  ?.

[the third man]

50 minutes ago, Chris Apolon said:

 

I thought we were in a false position at Christmas, at the start of the season I said that we would be mid table and I, for one, would be happy with mid table given the squad we had (objectively of course, subjectively i wanted us top 2!)

 

I'm not sure Monk would be getting the grief he has been had the points accrued been spread across the season and we had still finished where we did.

 

Either way this club has needed a mass rebuild for at least 2 seasons and no manager has had the balls to do it, and Monk has (albeit potentially with the financial impacts hanging over us). Many managers would have walked away from us by now and I for one, personally, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt heading into a fresh new season with a freshened up team.

 

I do however understand those on the other side of the fence even if I disagree

So if we over achieved up to Christmas, are you saying the second half of the season showed us Monks potential and therefore what we can expect next season?

[the third man]

Just now, sage owl said:

You seriously think that  ?.

 

i could see what Charlton was about, yes,

[Guest Grandad]

17 minutes ago, bladeshater said:

I'm more concerned who recommended Jones abdi and van aken

If you're not in the shop trying to buy new grandchildren we could probably come up with a really long list

 

Lachmann. Sougou. Emanuelson. Drenthe...

[Chris Apolon]

3 minutes ago, the third man said:

So if we over achieved up to Christmas, are you saying the second half of the season showed us Monks potential and therefore what we can expect next season?

 

Not as such; the points total over the course of the season was as anticipated within a few points. We were in a false position and I fully expected us to finish in mid table. Which we did there or thereabouts. 

 

In the first period there were games we shouldn't have got anything but we did. And in the latter period there were games we should have got something and didn't. Par for the course for a club in our position. I'm obviously not forgiving or forgetting the drubbings we got but there were green shoots of positive team ethics

[daveyboy66]

12 minutes ago, the third man said:

 

But you could see what he was trying to achieve, i cant see what monk is trying to achieve except get us relegated

So he's trying to get us relegated...right. I'm afraid you're going to have to suck it up because he isn't going anywhere. 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

2 hours ago, Road Runner said:

Birmingham got a 9 point deduction and Monk led them to 12 points clear of relegation with his own players.

 

He can pull teams out of he mire with his own squad so I'd like to see him get his own players and coaches first.

 

There is no viable replacements who would come and Monk has been in this position before through no fault of his own and know what's required. 

 

 

 

Birmingham weren't in the 'mire'. This was due to the bottom 3 teams being hopeless. Rotherham who took the final relegation spot only had 40 points, Bolton and Ipswich only got 32 and 31 points. Reading and Millwall who finished 20th and 21st would have been relegated this season with their number of points.

 

Birmingham would have finished 15th without the 9 points deduction, hardly a great achievement.  They won 2 of their last 12 matches.

[bladeshater]

13 minutes ago, Grandad said:

If you're not in the shop trying to buy new grandchildren we could probably come up with a really long list

 

Lachmann. Sougou. Emanuelson. Drenthe...

Cancelled my trip to shop Dobbies have just lightened my wallet it's far cheaper to sit in South stand than visit there

[YesWeCrann]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

@YesWeCrann - I think there might be something a little misleading in that article: where you say, 'Despite the transfer restrictions and points deduction, Monk’s Birmingham finished 12 points clear of the bottom three that year, comfortably mid-table and actually with six points more than they’d gotten the season before.'

 

They finished on 52 points in 18/19 after the 9 point deduction, so they actually achieved 15 points more than they had in the previous season (46).

 

It's a minor point, but it's a fairer measure of their progress on the pitch under Monk and probably should be highlighted?

 

I can understand why it might be read that way, I'll make an adjustment to it now. Cheers for that!

[Elderly Owl]

1 hour ago, the third man said:

 

Could you not see something in that Atkinsons team though, relegated or not, even when we lost to Forest we just didnt roll over like we have done so many times in the second half of the season

That game against Forest was abysmal! My daughter’s first game- and she’s been a diehard Wednesday fan ever since! 

Four goals for Hirsty in the next home game..

 

nailed on promotion next year. Get to it Garry!
 

 

 

 

[adelphi1867]

On 01/08/2020 at 15:20, Blatter said:

Just had a quick look at Monks managerial record. His win percentage around 40% before coming to Wednesday, 

If he can achieve that next season he would need  seven or eight draws along the way to achieve 50 points after the 12 deducted.

On the face of it that should be achievable, but when you consider his record in the last half season that looks a very different prospect. Factor in that he needs to blend in at least four or five new players that looks a very formidable prospect. 

If Chansiri sticks with Monk he’s going to need more help than he’s been getting on the coaching front to get next season’s players working as a team. That coupled with some quick work by the recruitment guys. 
Hold tight it’s going to be one hell of a season and it’s coming up real soon.

It will take 2 season's to repair and rebuild the Wednesday squad upto a standard that will mean we can push on and go for promotion.

No matter who is the manager/coach.

IF anyone thinks we would challenge for the top 6 next season, need's to have their bumps examined.

[Westfield Owl]

6 hours ago, Bluesteel said:

I saw on twitter the other day a reminder that we lost 6 on the bounce under laws at the start of the season and we stayed up so it’s do able!

 

We might have some company on minus points too

 

We had a better squad and manager in 07/08 than what we have now.

 

Derby won’t have points deducted IMO.

[Westfield Owl]

3 hours ago, the third man said:

So if we over achieved up to Christmas, are you saying the second half of the season showed us Monks potential and therefore what we can expect next season?

 

Its funny how very few were saying we were overachieving when we beat Bristol in December to go third.

 

You could argue Monk’s poor ability to manage the players over holding onto leads prior to New Year had us underachieving.

 

Conceding late goals (87th minute or later) against Cardiff (A), Blackburn (A), Swansea (H), West Brom (A) & Stoke (A) cost us 11 points from Monk’s first 18 games.

 

We’d have been comfortably in the autos over the Xmas period had we not thrown away those 11 points.

[Blatter]

54 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

It will take 2 season's to repair and rebuild the Wednesday squad upto a standard that will mean we can push on and go for promotion.

No matter who is the manager/coach.

IF anyone thinks we would challenge for the top 6 next season, need's to have their bumps examined.

I agree about the time needed and Steve Bruce said similar, but my post is about the chances of avoiding relegation. Making up 12 points is not impossible. It took 7 games and mid September  to get there last season. That was with our best team on the pitch and no one frozen out.

Next time will be much harder and will need some smart recruitment and coaching work

 

The only mention of top six in all the Owlstalk posts I’ve read were clearly in jest. You’d need a winning run through most of the season to get anywhere near that from a -12 starting point.

 

[Bluesteel]

53 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

We had a better squad and manager in 07/08 than what we have now.

 

Derby won’t have points deducted IMO.

We will have to wait and see what our squad is like but that 07/08 squad was cobbled together. No one in there like Lees, Bannan, Borner, Luongo. But the likes of Grant and Tudgay are better than what we might have. It’s a bit like comparing apples and oranges anyway given the league is so different but we looked awful for 6 games and stayed up so that in principle shows it is do able and that is the attitude that will need to be adopted.

 

Not sure you can really say that about Derby at this stage.