Was Jos wrong after all ?

[sherlyegg]

2 minutes ago, ka58 said:

maybe he was but he managed it in the wrong way cos he was the worst manager I’ve known here in 40 years.

 

Which way should he have managed it? The same way Monk has recently decided to do, for all is faults he sussed the players out quicker than Monk did.

And TBH the football now is not a great deal better than it was. Probably similar in sub making decisions.

 

All in hindsight now of course but now we know what we know....Jos had some right shyte to deal with, as Monk is finding out.

 

Only thing going for Monk is he hasn't lost the fans in the numbers Jos did....yet,  apart from that same same.

 

As for worse manager in 40yrs

 

Eustace
Pleat
Wilson
Jewell
Yorath
Turner

 

All had win rates less than Jos and several not mentioned with a similar record.

 

BTW I wanted him out, thought he was useless

 

 

 

 

[Steve Down South]

43 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

I can’t accept that, if that’s so then the players who are letting it effect them are weak and are just as negative an influence as the trouble causes if true. If the excuse is the unrest is making them not be able to perform  then that’s as lame as it gets. 
 

I do agree it’s a long road ahead, and that isn’t a knee jerk reaction from the last few results, we are a rudderless ship from top to bottom. 

May not be the case, who knows - just feeling particularly negative about the whole thing right now.

 

Tend to agree that no one comes out of this with a lot of credit.

[Mister Soul]

9 hours ago, LittleG said:

Who do you think he's worked out are in the comfort bubble? 

Tom Lees

Barry Bannan 

Adthe Nuhiu

Kieran Westwood 

and to a lesser extent

Sam Hutchinson

[Hack-Abusi]

12 hours ago, Theboylangers said:

I cannot believe that some are defending Jos, one of the worst managers we've ever had. 

I'm not even sure that could sort this lot out though. 

Its not about defending him .. ultimately his reign ran its course pretty quick. Things changed, the first 6 months, solid, consistant etc, the 2nd 6 months all over the fecking shop but again I believe there were factors that affected this and some of them beyond his control.

 

The geezer signed 1 permanent player in 2 windows. 1 player for christs sake while left with some right detritus from the Carlos campaigns ..

 

Like i say, hiding to nothing. If he'd have stuck with the same principles he used in the first 6 months of his reign then who knows what may have happened

 

And only he'll know why he mixed things up in the latter part of his managerial stint with us.

10 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

Yep, lets sell our best player and replace him with two average ones. That sounds sensible.

It most certainly does if it allows you to bring in more players to replace him. And they don't have to be average nether. I'm pretty sure we could get 2-3 players using bannans wage and transfer if we work hard in the market. Plenty of players out there.

 

Also thats what teams do, they refresh, they rebuild, they sell off assets and bring in others. It happens across all the leagues

[axolotl]

9 hours ago, 2roland2 said:

I can’t accept that, if that’s so then the players who are letting it effect them are weak and are just as negative an influence as the trouble causes if true. If the excuse is the unrest is making them not be able to perform  then that’s as lame as it gets. 
 

I do agree it’s a long road ahead, and that isn’t a knee jerk reaction from the last few results, we are a rudderless ship from top to bottom. 

 

I wouldn't say they're weak, not necessarily. Demoralised, possibly. But it is very easy for a small group to affect the mentality of a group. I've seen it happen myself at work.

[Guest LittleG]

3 hours ago, Mister Soul said:

Tom Lees

Barry Bannan 

Adthe Nuhiu

Kieran Westwood 

and to a lesser extent

Sam Hutchinson

Agree with a couple of those but could also add a few more to the list.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 hour ago, 2roland2 said:

tbf I can see how it would effect people in normal work practice, but to be a professional athlete you have to have a certain mindset. It’s part of any sport, the mental capacity to do things others can’t. The focus to just make a professional contract is huge.  
as I said I’m sorry but it’s weak, their jobs are different to ours, and if tittle tattling effects their efforts then fizz them out, the very least a professional athlete should be capable of is doing there own job. 
most of the people calling out the alleged trouble causes are supporting the rest of the squad who are basically giving up.  

It seems to me that a lot of people on here don't actually care about how good the players are at football, they just want players who try hard, love the club and suck up to the fans, even if they're bang average players.

 

If you point out the limitations in the likes of Dawson, Fox and Palmer you get negged or abused because these fit the above mould. Likewise, if you don't slag off Westwood, FF, Rhodes, Bannan etc then you also get attacked.

 

Bottom line is, most footballers are mercenaries and its the same at every club... it's just a job to them. Bang average players are delighted to be at Sheffield Wednesday because they know if they were to leave, their level is lower than here. The better players don't have the same attachment.

 

Way I see it, if we aspire to be a premier league club, anyone who isn't going to do a job on promotion is expendable. Only Fletcher and Bannan fit that, Iorfa has the potential possibly and until this season I'd have said Westwood and FF pre all the problems too. The rest of our squad are bang average and always have been. The fact that we're handing out 4 year contracts to players who would never make the grade at PL level says it all about our ambitions. I expect to get negged for saying Dawson won't be a PL keeper because he's 'young' and 'one of our own' yet he's only 2 years younger than Allison and Ederson, and he's older than Henderson.

[Animis]

6 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

It seems to me that a lot of people on here don't actually care about how good the players are at football, they just want players who try hard, love the club and suck up to the fans, even if they're bang average players.

 

If you point out the limitations in the likes of Dawson, Fox and Palmer you get negged or abused because these fit the above mould. Likewise, if you don't slag off Westwood, FF, Rhodes, Bannan etc then you also get attacked.

 

Bottom line is, most footballers are mercenaries and its the same at every club... it's just a job to them. Bang average players are delighted to be at Sheffield Wednesday because they know if they were to leave, their level is lower than here. The better players don't have the same attachment.

 

Way I see it, if we aspire to be a premier league club, anyone who isn't going to do a job on promotion is expendable. Only Fletcher and Bannan fit that, Iorfa has the potential possibly and until this season I'd have said Westwood and FF pre all the problems too. The rest of our squad are bang average and always have been. The fact that we're handing out 4 year contracts to players who would never make the grade at PL level says it all about our ambitions. I expect to get negged for saying Dawson won't be a PL keeper because he's 'young' and 'one of our own' yet he's only 2 years younger than Allison and Ederson, and he's older than Henderson.

 

I agree with a lot of this. However, we should be able to find players who have a balance of attributes - not just settle for one or the other.

 

The club in S2 have done it - why can't we?

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

20 hours ago, torryowl said:

Jos had the right idea he just didn't have the young players who good enough to implement  his thinking coupled with being unable to buy new players and sell them he didn't want he was always going to struggle 

 

This.

 

20 hours ago, striker said:

I think to be fair to Jos, he saw the issues but went too far too quickly. His inexperience of the league soon caught up with him and he looked lost. 

 

And this!

[83owl]

26 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

It seems to me that a lot of people on here don't actually care about how good the players are at football, they just want players who try hard, love the club and suck up to the fans, even if they're bang average players.

 

If you point out the limitations in the likes of Dawson, Fox and Palmer you get negged or abused because these fit the above mould. Likewise, if you don't slag off Westwood, FF, Rhodes, Bannan etc then you also get attacked.

 

Bottom line is, most footballers are mercenaries and its the same at every club... it's just a job to them. Bang average players are delighted to be at Sheffield Wednesday because they know if they were to leave, their level is lower than here. The better players don't have the same attachment.

 

Way I see it, if we aspire to be a premier league club, anyone who isn't going to do a job on promotion is expendable. Only Fletcher and Bannan fit that, Iorfa has the potential possibly and until this season I'd have said Westwood and FF pre all the problems too. The rest of our squad are bang average and always have been. The fact that we're handing out 4 year contracts to players who would never make the grade at PL level says it all about our ambitions. I expect to get negged for saying Dawson won't be a PL keeper because he's 'young' and 'one of our own' yet he's only 2 years younger than Allison and Ederson, and he's older than Henderson.

KW has made 19 appearances in the PL in a 16 year career yet you see him as a PL keeper. Dawson is just starting his career really and you have already wrote him off as not good enough.

[Hougoumont]

21 hours ago, WelshOwl74 said:

Now I'm not saying he was a good manager ,he was far from it 

but the dropping of certain players (who people  demanded played) 

Westwood ,Fernando ect.

 

Its obvious there is massive tension at the club at present and certain players running the changing room .

 

How are some players supposed to get motivated when they see Westwood and Fernando on 25/30 k a week taking a annual month off every season .

 

Like I say Jos  was garbage and rightfully sacked but I defiantly onto something with trying to get rid of the venom in the changing room 

You know fúck all. Take your venom somewhere else.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

11 minutes ago, 83owl said:

KW has made 19 appearances in the PL in a 16 year career yet you see him as a PL keeper. Dawson is just starting his career really and you have already wrote him off as not good enough.

I don’t see Westwood as a premier league keeper anymore.. think the peak of his career was the early years with us, that would have been his best time to play in the PL. 

 

Dawson I actually like, would have definitely given him a new contract. Just don’t see him playing at that level though, think he’ll be a decent championship keeper. But not happy if the height of our ambitions is to be a decent championship team. Would also question why we’ve given him 4 years and not 2 years, bearing in mind we gave Wildsmith 5 years and shortly after that he faded away. It’s unnecessary tying players to very long contracts at this level. We’ve also done it with Nuhui (2 years when 1 year was right), Palmer (3 years when it should have been 2 years) and a host of our other better players on excessive wages for 3-4 years. These kind of decisions have hampered our flexibility to change anything in the squad which is why we have the present malaise