Kanye West Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Gary Neville is bang on. As for Dave Jones, he’s been getting a lot of stick for saying it’s not sky sports views, but I think he’s been proper throw under the bus from the producers for making him say it. Feel a bit sorry for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 I think Jones could have agreed (or disagreed) with Neville and said he'd been told to emphasise that those views aren't those of Sky It would have been incredibly crass for Sky to sack him and he'd have huge grounds for unfair dismissal - or at the very least a treasure trove of opportunities at other broadcasters open up Sometimes people just have to stand up and be counted - don't just play the corporate game He's now made himself a complete fool at best and a rascist sympathiser at worst - and for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Btw how much of a media darling is ole? He never gets any hard questioning no matter how poo manure have just played. Contrast that with the harrasment Jose gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye West Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Obviously never been in that position, but I imagine having a producer shout in your ear under pressure probably didn’t give him enough time to think about it. I think Dave Jones will admit he cocked up, but he’s a decent bloke and will deeply regret letting Sky make him look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said: I argued that point on this forum after the Bulgaria incident. Got shouted down. Since that game, there has been incidents of racism every other week. Brexit is a huge part in this. It’s given idiots the opportunity to spill their racist views into football. It is not an issue in football, it’s a problem in society which is leaking into the stands. Britain is in a really bad place. In the last few weeks/months the racist incidents that have occured have been acted out by very few idiotic individuals. The fact that every time these incidents have occured they've recieved an intense amount of disgust and attention from the players, officials and fans alike shows we are highlighting and making progress. It actually encourages me that these things are occuring and i don't think Britain is in a dark place at all. I think its actually the process of dragging these incidents that have always occurred, probably in a higher frequency, into the spotlight and crushing them thats actually depressed people. But this is progress. Edited December 22, 2019 by TheEnchanter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Dave Jones has come out and apologised. Feel a bit sorry for the bloke. Almost certain that was a producer telling him to intervene. Don't think he for a moment meant to stifle a debate on racism, albeit he handled it rather cack-handedly. Neville was spot on with what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMacLean Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: I argued that point on this forum after the Bulgaria incident. Got shouted down. Since that game, there has been incidents of racism every other week. Brexit is a huge part in this. It’s given idiots the opportunity to spill their racist views into football. It is not an issue in football, it’s a problem in society which is leaking into the stands. Britain is in a really bad place. Issue on the political side is that discussing things like immigration/freedom of movement is still taboo. You have kind of just proven that there. Some then lash out and go miles too far. This went on long before Brexit or this Govt or that. In UK football it seems to be attention seekers who see it happen elsewhere like in Italy and know it upsets players more than anything else so just jump straight to it. I doubt it has the same actual hostile intention here as places like Italy or recently in Ukraine but would be very interested to see the views of any caught and their mindset. I suspect nearly all who do it would then go and happily have a beer with black friends and not even think twice about it. Edited December 23, 2019 by sMacLean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, SiJ said: Dave Jones has come out and apologised. Feel a bit sorry for the bloke. Almost certain that was a producer telling him to intervene. Don't think he for a moment meant to stifle a debate on racism, albeit he handled it rather cack-handedly. Neville was spot on with what he said. I think Jones probably wished he'd not trotted out the corporate line and made himself look such a sap. Sky have come out of this looking very poor. Neville was spot on and he was very even handed He wasn't pushing an agenda So poor from sky Let's see where this goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yes, Sky have come out of this poorly. I believe they have Tweeted something too. It was a debate about racism and, if you're going to have that, then you've got to allow people to put forward their views without silly interventions on behalf of the broadcaster. If you can't do that, then you might as well not bother. What Neville was saying about the two main political parties is absolutely true. Both have been dogged with the accusations of racism/anti-antisemitism and neither has done a particularly good of dealing with these issues. We have a populist PM who has also been quoted in the past as saying racist things too. The whole thing goes way beyond football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls-Fan Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 When Spurs announcer came on the tannoy and said “there’s no place for racism in football”. I feel he probably should have said “there’s no place for racism in life”. Me being petty, but there you go. As Neville and Cole said footballers are asked to put on those no racism in football t-shirts to warm up in and then it’s all forgotten about. More needs to be done to get a message across to certain people that racism is not acceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Neville is wrong when he says that its those in power who let people get away with racism. You telling me that if Corbyn was in power that wouldn't have happened yesterday? Come off it. Racism is a problem with society, not a political one. I don't think people are getting braver shall we say with airing their views since Brexit, it is more the rise of social media has led to these incidents being reported more than they were even 5 years ago. However, it not just racism though that is a problem if were being honest, it is homophobia and sexism too. I do feel slightly that football fans are once again being made the scapegoats for an issue that is not entirely our fault. Firstly, forget about racism in football, and focus on eradicating it from society first. Everyone else will fall in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever the pessimist Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Chelsea fan has now been arrested for racially abusing Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Birley Owl 1867 said: Neville is wrong when he says that its those in power who let people get away with racism. You telling me that if Corbyn was in power that wouldn't have happened yesterday? Come off it. Racism is a problem with society, not a political one. I don't think people are getting braver shall we say with airing their views since Brexit, it is more the rise of social media has led to these incidents being reported more than they were even 5 years ago. However, it not just racism though that is a problem if were being honest, it is homophobia and sexism too. I do feel slightly that football fans are once again being made the scapegoats for an issue that is not entirely our fault. Firstly, forget about racism in football, and focus on eradicating it from society first. Everyone else will fall in line. I think you're kissing the point Firstly Neville condemned both major party leaders for racism in their party's - one of which is obviously Corbyn so that negates your fortst point Secondly we (England) have made much capital (and rightly) about racism faced by our players from opposing fans so it is not unreasonable for us to be held to account when it happens in our backyard - no? Obviously it is a problem in wider society - nobody disputes that I agree that slurs against other characteristics are tolerated - such as sexism and homophobia - and they should be dealt with too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 The problem with players walking off is that the idiots will see this as an opportunity when their team are losing in a big game. The solution is quite easy imo. Get the clubs to start policing it properly and ban people for life or start closing grounds. When it starts hurting them in the pocket, it will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, scram said: I think you're kissing the point Firstly Neville condemned both major party leaders for racism in their party's - one of which is obviously Corbyn so that negates your fortst point Secondly we (England) have made much capital (and rightly) about racism faced by our players from opposing fans so it is not unreasonable for us to be held to account when it happens in our backyard - no? Obviously it is a problem in wider society - nobody disputes that I agree that slurs against other characteristics are tolerated - such as sexism and homophobia - and they should be dealt with too No, I think I've found the point of his words clear and simple. He is having a go at leaders, mainly Boris but Corbyn too, using this incident as a chance to have a pop at the Tories. Like he did all in the run up to the election. We should look at ourselves, but when you compared our country to the one we publically condemned in Bulgaria, we have moved on from that 30 years ago. We still have a way to go. Football fans are being used again though as scapegoats, you can't deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, vulva said: The problem with players walking off is that the idiots will see this as an opportunity when their team are losing in a big game. The solution is quite easy imo. Get the clubs to start policing it properly and ban people for life or start closing grounds. When it starts hurting them in the pocket, it will stop. I think in cases of walk offs and games not restarting, the offending team should forfeit the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Just now, Birley Owl 1867 said: I think in cases of walk offs and games not restarting, the offending team should forfeit the game. I’m afraid that’s rubbish. We are talking about the odd bloke in a 70,000 crowd. I honestly don’t believe racism in football is rife. It’s just getting loads of airtime at the minute. The odd idiot does not constitute a major issue, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, vulva said: I’m afraid that’s rubbish. We are talking about the odd bloke in a 70,000 crowd. I honestly don’t believe racism in football is rife. It’s just getting loads of airtime at the minute. The odd idiot does not constitute a major issue, imo. You say you want it to hurt clubs in the pocket, but dont want to do as a solution? I think that's the perfect solution, fans will stop doing it if it harms their teams chances at promotion, relegation or trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Birley Owl 1867 said: You say you want it to hurt clubs in the pocket, but dont want to do as a solution? I think that's the perfect solution, fans will stop doing it if it harms their teams chances at promotion, relegation or trophies. The threat of hurting clubs in the pocket will be sufficient. Problem is, you can’t really legislate or plan for idiots. Fans in general will start to self police this soon as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Birley Owl 1867 said: No, I think I've found the point of his words clear and simple. He is having a go at leaders, mainly Boris but Corbyn too, using this incident as a chance to have a pop at the Tories. Like he did all in the run up to the election. We should look at ourselves, but when you compared our country to the one we publically condemned in Bulgaria, we have moved on from that 30 years ago. We still have a way to go. Football fans are being used again though as scapegoats, you can't deny that. You blatently heard a different Neville speech to the one i heard if you think he just used it as a chance to have a pop at the tories - he clearly condemned BOTH party leaders And you say we have moved on from the likes of the Bulgaria incidents - remind me again how many monkey chants in the last couple of weeks? I don't think football fans are being used as scapegoats - i think football fans being racist will be highlighted in a football tv programme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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