Who should stay or go - Availability factor

[Holmowl]

Lots of posts in various threads about who should stay or go.

 

Ability is obviously a factor, but it’s no use having ability if you are too rarely available. This is particularly important where club finances are in ruins. We can’t afford to be paying terrific players to watch from the stands.

 

94 league and Play-Off games in the last two calendar years. Here are the starts from some key players:-

 

Reach 87

Bannan 72

Lees 64

———————

Fletcher 34

Hooper 30

Forestieri 26

Lee 22

———————

Matias 10

Abdi 5

 

There’s talk of Reach going. A player who has started 87 of our last 94 matches. You’d need two recruits to replace that. By getting Matias and Abdi off the books could we afford to keep Reach? 

 

What about the group of Fletch, Hooper, Forestieri and Lee? Moving all four on would take a huge chunk of wages out, for a couple of younger and less injury-prone players, and still leave plenty in the coffers for FFP.

 

I think and hope that Katrien and Co are looking to create a quality but sustainable squad, based on sound financial acumen. Selling near ever-presents but keeping walking-wounded wouldn’t make any financial or footballing sense whatsoever.

 

Some of my favourite Wednesday players in generations are in my middle group. With great sadness and reluctance I would support all four going in January or August. 

 

 

[Lord Snooty]

I think age is another factor which has to be weighed in.

[Bouncing Owl]

I think we will see an almighty clear out in

the summer and there will be a rebuild based on our own youngsters and players from lower leagues and unknown foreigners. 

 

I see Reach and Forestieri leaving but I have a feeling that Bannan will stay. It would be sensible to sell Reach in January if a big bid came on. 

[ReginaldD]

I agree with most of the OPs points and agree in an ideal world it makes more sense to get rid of Abdi, Jones, Boyd etc on big wages but not playing. 

 

However who in their right mind  who would buy them for any sort of fee which will make a dent in our P&S (FFP) issues. 

 

In my understanding DC kept the squad together where possible in the summer in the vague hope we have a great unexpected season like Cardiff. 

 

He'll now be able to see the reality that we very much aren't hoping up. As such I expect to see two of Bannan, Reach and Forestieri gone in January. Not through choice but simply as this will will be the only way to avoid a summer embargo or poinys deduction

[torryowl]

anyone out of contract at the end of the season should be released except  maybe penney …….anyone we can get a decent fee should be sold...…...we then need to release whatever funds we have to a manager (I know not who) with the remit to build a team without interference from anyone that can compete in the upper end of the championship in the 2 nd or at the latest 3rd season of the plan ….

[The only way is S6]

DC has always maintained he won't sell our best players & has been true to his word. Something a few on OT would do well to remember.

 

Off the top of my head, the following should be sold, go, be allowed to leave, be released or whatever term suits, based on their contributions alone;

 

Westwood.

Fox.

Abdi.

Jones.

Boyd.

Hutchinson.

Matias.

Lee.

Hooper.

Fletcher.

 

This frees up a load of wages & a load of shirts. Even if the terms of FFP are one in, one out, as the owner suggested, the squad can only improve with some players who actually play. The new recruits would probably cost less too.

Time for a cull. In the interests of the future. None of our prize assets need to be sold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

In order to have any chance of rebuilding the squad with anything more than youth team players and free signings, we need to generate a couple of big fees. Logic dictates that this is only going to happen in cases where players are playing regular football rather than warming a seat in the club's medical suite. At this moment in time, Reach and Bannan are the most likely to attract big offers, and we may have to accept the short term pain for a modicum of long term gain.

 

I have no idea what the club are planning, but if we're looking to sell Forestieri, we need to get him playing between now and the January transfer window, as his value right now must be the lowest it's been since he joined us.

 

He spent an age out injured and has now become a squad player who's picked up another injury. I can't see a long queue of clubs willing to throw money at him, to be honest.

[Lord Snooty]

 

I'd keep Forestieri.

I think he's worth more to us than we'd get for him if you know what I mean.

29 at Christmas and a few injuries to boot. I don't think we'd get anywhere near the fee that would equate to the value he brings to our  team. Moments of spark which we so critically lack.

[Holmowl]

16 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I'd keep Forestieri.

I think he's worth more to us than we'd get for him if you know what I mean.

29 at Christmas and a few injuries to boot. I don't think we'd get anywhere near the fee that would equate to the value he brings to our  team. Moments of spark which we so critically lack.

 

I do understand what you mean.

 

I think you could make a case for using him sparingly, mainly from the bench, bringing him on when the workmanlike approach is not paying off. 

 

Though like @areNOTwhatTHEYseem says above, if we could get a run of games out of him and attract interest at a decent price at Christmas I would sell.

 

I would keep Reach and Bannan under lock and key.

[Lord Snooty]

1 minute ago, Holmowl said:

 

I do understand what you mean.

 

I think you could make a case for using him sparingly, mainly from the bench, bringing him on when the workmanlike approach is not paying off. 

 

Though like @areNOTwhatTHEYseem says above, if we could get a run of games out of him and attract interest at a decent price at Christmas I would sell.

 

I would keep Reach and Bannan under lock and key.

 

Forestieri is that funny stage of a players career.

We wouldn't get £10m for him.

It would cost us £10m to replace him

 

Hows his injury coming along anyhow? Him and Matias both being injured at the same time has been a real blow.

 

 

 

 

[The Night-Owl]

I'd keep Reach until the end of this season. Then get a decent fee on our terms in the summer for him? Bannan seems like he would be happy to stay. Out of the players on that list, I'd wish to keep Reach, Forestieri and Bannan but being realistic, it will be difficult to hang onto either of Reach and Forestieri in the summer. 

 

Next season, as long as we're still in this division, I could see only Bannan from that list still at the club, maybe also Forestieri if we can't get a decent fee for him? I'd have a massive rebuild, if possible, with or without Jos. Building around Bannan and our best youngsters, plus a few new players. If we're smart, we could build a more effective team, with pace; physicality, solidity and directness. By bringing in top flight loanees, frees and scouring the lower Leagues for talent. It's important we go for players that fit rather than individuals.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mr. Wednesday

[Holmowl]

2 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Forestieri is that funny stage of a players career.

We wouldn't get £10m for him.

It would cost us £10m to replace him

 

Hows his injury coming along anyhow? Him and Matias both being injured at the same time has been a real blow.

 

 

 

 

 

Could definitely do with one of them back.

 

Joao and FF or Matias either side of Fletch or Nuhiu is definitely our best forward-line these days.

[adelphi1867]

51 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Lots of posts in various threads about who should stay or go.

 

Ability is obviously a factor, but it’s no use having ability if you are too rarely available. This is particularly important where club finances are in ruins. We can’t afford to be paying terrific players to watch from the stands.

 

94 league and Play-Off games in the last two calendar years. Here are the starts from some key players:-

 

Reach 87

Bannan 72

Lees 64

———————

Fletcher 34

Hooper 30

Forestieri 26

Lee 22

———————

Matias 10

Abdi 5

 

There’s talk of Reach going. A player who has started 87 of our last 94 matches. You’d need two recruits to replace that. By getting Matias and Abdi off the books could we afford to keep Reach? 

 

What about the group of Fletch, Hooper, Forestieri and Lee? Moving all four on would take a huge chunk of wages out, for a couple of younger and less injury-prone players, and still leave plenty in the coffers for FFP.

 

I think and hope that Katrien and Co are looking to create a quality but sustainable squad, based on sound financial acumen. Selling near ever-presents but keeping walking-wounded wouldn’t make any financial or footballing sense whatsoever.

 

Some of my favourite Wednesday players in generations are in my middle group. With great sadness and reluctance I would support all four going in January or August. 

 

 

How many games has Westwood played over the last 2 seasons?.

Edited October 30, 2018 by adelphi1867

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, Holmowl said:

 

I do understand what you mean.

 

I think you could make a case for using him sparingly, mainly from the bench, bringing him on when the workmanlike approach is not paying off. 

 

Though like @areNOTwhatTHEYseem says above, if we could get a run of games out of him and attract interest at a decent price at Christmas I would sell.

 

I would keep Reach and Bannan under lock and key.

 

In an ideal world, we'd have a fully fit Forestieri playing week in, week out. In the real world, however, injuries mean he's not played regular football for quite some time, and his influence on our team has waned.

 

Although Bannan and Reach are far more likely to attract bids this January, I'd rather see Forestieri leave ahead of them. The problem is, he's not going to attract a big enough offer these days, is he?

 

There's a reason most non-parachute-funded Championship clubs sell their best players when their value is at its highest, and I just hope we do the same in a couple of months' time.

[Holmowl]

4 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

How many games has Westwood played over the last 2 seasons?.

 

Exactly 50

[Lord Snooty]

2 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

Could definitely do with one of them back.

 

Joao and FF or Matias either side of Fletch or Nuhiu is definitely our best forward-line these days.

 

To be honest in his current form I'd play Reach as an outisde forward.

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

Reach is the kind of player you want to keep. But FFP means if DC had any business sense he'd be sold.

 

Personally would get rid of most. Next season we should be going into the season with:

 

Dawson, Wildsmith, Lees, Thorniley, Penney, Van Aken, Baker, Bannan, Pelupessy, Kirby, Preston, Fletcher, Joao, Winnall, Forestieri.

 

The rest can leave. And we build again next summer. But the key is to sell Reach so we can start the rebuild without FFP fears.

[supersiggi]

48 minutes ago, torryowl said:

anyone out of contract at the end of the season should be released except  maybe penney …….anyone we can get a decent fee should be sold...…...we then need to release whatever funds we have to a manager (I know not who) with the remit to build a team without interference from anyone that can compete in the upper end of the championship in the 2 nd or at the latest 3rd season of the plan ….

 

Very sensible approach. I think there's a few kids out of contract apart from Penney that might be worth keeping too.

 

Problem  with a sensible long term plan is that fans and chairman won't put up with it. We've seen that first hand - loads clamouring for the kids to be given a chance and the likes of Jones, Boyd and Abdi to be dropped - 3 poor performances and these pages are full of "where's Boyd and Jones?"!

 

Couldn't make it up.

[The Night-Owl]

3 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

To be honest in his current form I'd play Reach as an outisde forward.

 

 

 

that looks decent, although I'd take Palmer out for Thorniley or Baker. Once the likes of Forestieri; Matias, Hooper and Winnall are back, we'll have much more options. If fit I'd have Forestieri, Lee and Hooper in our strongest 11 but then we'd still need Reach in there as on recent form him and Bannan are by far our key players.

[Lord Snooty]

1 minute ago, Mr. Wednesday said:

 

that looks decent, although I'd take Palmer out for Thorniley or Baker. Once the likes of Forestieri; Matias, Hooper and Winnall are back, we'll have much more options. If fit I'd have Forestieri, Lee and Hooper in our strongest 11 but then we'd still need Reach in there as on recent form him and Bannan are by far our key players.

 

throw a coin with Palmer and Baker. I personally think Baker fades with stamina.

Not sure we'll see Lee and Hooper in the stripes again.

We have to plan without them in reality I suspect.