Dawson

[StudentOwl]

32 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Be nice if some fans could see the bigger picture.

 

For one Dawson is a good keeper- and he's only 23!

 

Talking about someone who might be our number 1 for years to come or who the club might stand to make a tidy profit on in the future.

 

He is not the finished article and there's aspects of his play he needs to improve on, but he's done well so far and does not deserve this ridiculous campaign against him. 

I'm sure I'll get a backlash for saying so... but some of our fans are absolute neanderthals. And I don't mean in the Leeds/Millwall thuggish sense. I mean in the sense that they're stuck with a very 70's mindset... two up-top, would rather have someone like Hutch kicking seven shades of sh*t out of the opposition playing, never ever want to move away from Hillsborough and can't see that having a stadium close to good transport links is an objectively better thing... and perhaps most importantly of all, living off of sentiment.

 

That sentiment is what keeps people calling for the likes of Westwood and Hutch, neither of whom have been close to class at this level for nearly 18 months. The sentimental specs get put on and instead of seeing that Dawson is performing above where Westwood was 12 months ago, they see that Dawson is performing below where Westwood was 24 months ago. Both sentences are true, but there's this selective blindness where they only acknowledge the latter and not the former. 

 

It reminds me a little bit of a couple of years ago, when I kept criticising the age of the signings we were making- saying they were all older and that in the medium term it wasn't a good policy.. I had a few posters to tell me to stop worrying and making a big deal out of nothing... I think you were one of them Si?

Fast forward 18 months and you're right up there with me, criticising that we've signed too many older players with no resale value.

 

This situation reminds me very similar of that... sometimes it takes some fans a little longer to see the bigger picture. They'll get up to speed eventually. You've just got to hope in the meantime that the persistent and near villagers-facing-Frankenstein mob mentality doesn't effect the player in question. 

[SiJ]

Give the kids a chance they say...

 

He isn't good enough, drop him for Westwood they say...

 

Dawson seems to be not afforded the same patience as some of the others who have been promoted to the senior side. 

[Guest Willow Owl]

6 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Give the kids a chance they say...

 

He isn't good enough, drop him for Westwood they say...

 

Dawson seems to be not afforded the same patience as some of the others who have been promoted to the senior side. 

Totally agree regarding the patience not given to Dawson. 

On a different scale i know but remember Schmeichel and De Gea at Man Ure. Both had poor first seasons and they haven't turned out too bad. Point being the club/fans showed patience and believed in the decision to make them no 1.

 Westwood is finished at the club and both Dawson and Wildsmith are the future. Fans need to move on and leave sentiment at home. 

[Guest Maxine]

4 hours ago, james o connor said:

But which games would we have gained more points with westwood In goal ? Where has Dawson cost us ? 

I can't be sure can I plus I haven't been to any away games this season but I stand by what I said Westwood should be first choice for this season for me obviously you don't agree.

[Guest Maxine]

14 minutes ago, sw1867 said:

 

Thats the thing though Maxine.

 

You claimed Dawson has cost us points but when asked to demonstrate this you have been unable to.

 

Yours and others call for Westwood is therefore from a position of opinion that Westwood is a better keeper and not on Dawson performing poorly.

 

Despite this Dawson is being criticised when no one can give an example where he has cost us. This is whilst claiming Westwood is a better keeper yet only giving an example of good performances 12 months ago. KW’s last 1st team games were poor and Jos evaluated him in Pre-season training to be below others.

Ive said nothing like that.

I said over a season I think Westwood would win us a few games and we could be in a higher position than with Dawson IMO.

[jonesy87shef]

3 hours ago, sw1867 said:

 

I don’t get this ‘he doesn’t command his box’ argument. Dawson is continually talking and has shouted at / boll*cked the defence on number of occasions.

 

Yes he has a lot more developing to do but the best and quickest way to do it is play him. He’s doing very well and I hope he turns out to be our keeper for the next 10 years.

 

The problem I have with it is be b*llocks the players after the fact. I don’t see him instructing whilst the ball is in play. He’s either made a good save or balls in the back of the .

 

Great thing keepers have is they can see the whole game developing. Where runners go and where space is opening up. That’s why the best ones have great anticipation. Keepers need to be continually instructing players to fill in spaces and be positionally correct. 

 

It shouldn’t be the keepers job imo, but far too many outfield players are bloody dozy so this now comes back on keepers to organise. It does help defenders having another set of eyes though. 

 

[Hookowl]

7 minutes ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

The problem I have with it is be b*llocks the players after the fact. I don’t see him instructing whilst the ball is in play. He’s either made a good save or balls in the back of the .

 

Great thing keepers have is they can see the whole game developing. Where runners go and where space is opening up. That’s why the best ones have great anticipation. Keepers need to be continually instructing players to fill in spaces and be positionally correct. 

 

It shouldn’t be the keepers job imo, but far too many outfield players are bloody dozy so this now comes back on keepers to organise. It does help defenders having another set of eyes though. 

 

 

TBF that's not really a keepers job, that's where a good captain comes in and at present we don't really have one.

Although I agree a keeper does need to control his defence.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Hookowl

[jonesy87shef]

1 hour ago, sw1867 said:

 

Thats the thing though Maxine.

 

You claimed Dawson has cost us points but when asked to demonstrate this you have been unable to.

 

Yours and others call for Westwood is therefore from a position of opinion that Westwood is a better keeper and not on Dawson performing poorly.

 

Despite this Dawson is being criticised when no one can give an example where he has cost us. This is whilst claiming Westwood is a better keeper yet only giving an example of good performances 12 months ago. KW’s last 1st team games were poor and Jos evaluated him in Pre-season training to be below others.

 

I don’t think he’s done much wrong, certainly things he can do better.

 

All keepers will save and cost points at some point. He hasn’t cocked up as much as Wildsmith unfortunately did.

 

The goals that have directly cost us points though was the spill at Wigan. He’s usually very good on these in his defence.

 

Then the West Brom second. I’ve been through it several times in other threads that the ball shouldn't have got near Dawson, but the midfield and defence allowed it to happen. From there he has to save the shot. I’d wager if asked and he was honest he will say he should be saving it.

 

I’m not having a go at him as like I said all keepers will make errors. But posters keep saying none have lead directly to goal or cost us points. I’d argue that cost us 3 points combined. He will have saved us more though. The save at 0-0 vs Bristol contributed to us getting 3 points. We might have left with none going a goal down. 

 

This isn’t aimed at yourself. We just need a more balanced view on Dawson. Some say he’s crap and not good enough. Others he can’t do no wrong. Reality is it’s in the middle like a few have said. Decent young keeper who will improve but has a few leaks in his game.

[jonesy87shef]

1 minute ago, Hookowl said:

 

TBF that's not really a keepers job, that's where a good captain comes in and at present we don't really have one.

 

Thats why my sentence underneath says it shouldn’t be a keepers job

 

To me though it really is. They can see way more than anyone else. More than defenders and midfielders at pitch level. I used to get bloody frustrated barking orders at players constantly out of position and where players were going to run. Doesn’t sink in to some, even the very good players switch off.

[jonesy87shef]

2 minutes ago, sw1867 said:

 

I take your point however I have seen Dawson doing exactly what you suggest.

 

A few of my mates have commented on him putting us under pressure rolling out to the full backs and we get caught. I think he is doing this under instruction however against WBA I saw him on several occasions refuse to roll it out despite being screamed at by the defender to give it them. Dawson in turn shouted at them to push up field.

 

Marshalling the defence IMO is very important and whilst Dawson will continue to improve he is doing it. 

 

Thats the basics of all basics though. I did comment I’d like him to use his intelligence more and kick rather than roll out against a high press when the option isn’t on and he has done it more. 

 

I’m talking about when defending. I don’t see him shouting and talking as much until an incident has happened. He will grow into that. 

 

It can also be harder when you’re new in a team and young. I had it at 16-17. Shouting, b*llocking blokes 25-35 and it can actually be daunting, but you just get on with it. The longer you’re with a team and older you get the more comfortable and confident he will become. I suppose this will come with games and hopefully he will keep improving 

[Guest Maxine]

Of course its a guess because he hasn't played I can only go on the past. 

I think Dawson's a great future keeper who is still learning. Im not inferring Dawson wont keep a clean sheet of course he will.

I only said my first choice is Westwood for this season and I think we'd have had more clean sheets.

[Guest Maxine]

13 minutes ago, sw1867 said:

 

So, which of the goals we have conceded do you think Westwood would have done better with. The second one against WBA?

 

Conversly, which of Dawson’s saves do you think Westwood may have missed. The save just before our second against WBA?

 

Its all guess work so let’s work with things that are more probable.

 

1.Westwood’s last performances were poor

2. Westwood has not played well in the first team for 12 months.

3. Westwood has been assessed by our manager and coaching staff to be behind Dawson. Jos has selected Dawson as number 1 based on this close and current assessment, not past reputation.

3. Dawson has done well this season thus far and cannot be blamed for any goals. He can only be attributed a couple of could do betters.

4. Dawson is young and is on the rise in his career. He is therefore a better asset to the club.

5. Westwood is getting towards the end of his career, has had several lengthy injuries.

6. Is known to be difficult in the changing room and MAY have discipline disputes with the club.

 

Are you Dawson's Dad.

I agree with alot of what you are saying the only bit we dont agree on is I would have preferred Westwood this season while Dawson improves some more.

 

[FreshOwl]

7 hours ago, james o connor said:

But which games would we have gained more points with westwood In goal ? Where has Dawson cost us ? 

I think what she’s implying is that a player with more experience and a general all round better game (organisation, command of area) perhaps wouldn’t have seen us in some of the positions where we have conceded 

 

All guesswork of course 

[pazowl55]

Westwood isn't coming back. be surprised if he is not gone in January. 

 

It's our style of play that has meant we have not kept a clean sheet, nothing to do with Dawson. And I would even argue that we would have been worse off with Westwood in goal as Dawson is definitely more suited to playing from the back then he is.

So how many times has Dawson saved us with his speed and quick feet where Westwood might not have been able to.

 

Does Westwood command his area better than Dawson does. course he does and that would be my only criticism of Dawson. Our centre backs need to know if he is coming for the ball he is not going to flap at it. 

 

But the positives of Dawson and the way we and he are now playing far out weigh the negatives.

[Guest Maxine]

10 minutes ago, sw1867 said:

 

Im not Dawsons old man, I’ve never met Mrs Dawson, honest. Who’s told you this malicious rumour.

 

See points 1, 2, 3 (the first 3, never been good with numbers), 4, 5 & 6 as reasons why Westwood wasn’t selected as first choice this season.

1 3 and 6 are a bit ify 

[Costello 77]

Has everyone forget the post about Westwood not staying in the team hotel at Christmas?

[pgmetcalf]

4 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Has everyone forget the post about Westwood not staying in the team hotel at Christmas?

 

Nope, never heard of it

 

[Costello 77]

1 minute ago, pgmetcalf said:

 

Nope, never heard of it

 

In that case..you couldn't have forgotten about it.

[sonofbert2]

Bottom line is some of our "supporters" would rather get behind the cause of "a bit of atwat" than the cause of the young lad chosen to replace him and who so far hasn't done much wrong.

 

Hypocrisy and duplicity when contrasting their views and positions taken in other discussions doesn't come anywhere near and sitting and waiting for him to fuckup big to prove their point is quite frankly, pathetic.

 

I personally hope we continue to grow and improve as a whole and look forward to a few acknowledging their shitiness a bit further down the line.  Set o' saddos.

[Guest Maxine]

51 minutes ago, sw1867 said:

 

Which 3 

 

1. Do you not agree his formed dropped significantly?

3. That is what JL has publicly stated. If we don’t believe it we are going back into guess work. Do you know for certain any other reason Westwood hadn’t been selected.

6. Granted, remove from the list.

 

His form may have dropped on occasion but I still felt he was one of the best goalies in the league.

Westwood isn't coming back.and im behind Dawson I only said what I thought would have been better for this season. 

Ok sw1867 Dawson.