Westwood

[Sonny]

2 hours ago, fred mciver said:

Agree, and the reason's Chansiri's ego - just like Hirsty matter too and other issues .

 

This isn't a court of law - don't need evidence of morale issues, just human nature so can infer.

 

However, Westy's tweet of FIFA goalie rankings must have gone down well with our 2 young keepers.

 

Like last year, when we were told all injured for Hutch to pop up and tweet that was rubbish.

 

You’r right, this isn’t a court of law. Hard evidence is not required but for people to agree with your premise of low morale you’ve got to bring something to the table. Accordingly, as it’s not a court of law, when you provide no decent reasoning it’s then ok to state that you’re talking a load of unsubstantiated bołlocks. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Sonny

[Guest Willow Owl]

14 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Youth deserves a chance at the right time, Penney has proved he is better than Fox, You or me could probably prove we are better than Fox but Dawson is learning as is Wildsmith. Wildsmith got a taste last season and performed well and has been rewarded with being dropped to the bench and not played. He is a kid and he will want first team football which will mean we either loan him out or he leaves.

 

What ever has happened with Westwood he is not playing any form of football be it first team or development games. If you have no intention of playing him so be it but then you look at the club in a transfer embargo because of financial losses then a 3rd choice keeper on in excess of £1m a year not playing, not in the team why why why has this been allowed to happen.

 

This guy in over 150 appearances has a record close to 1 clean sheet in every 3 or 4 games, he help us stay in the division in the first two years, was a pivotal reason why we got to two play off and now he is on the scrap heap never to play again.

 

Its like Real Madrid dumping Gareth Bale because they have a kid coming through who needs first team football you simply would not do it. Yes give youth a chance but we are also in a results game and if we finish a few points outside of the play off are we going to say never mind Dawson has been good for the experience or do we say if Westwood was playing we would have been in the play offs. Its your choice mine is currently the best option we have in goal is Westwood.

 

  

All your arguement is based around hypothetical situations and if's, but's and maybe's. Westwood would have saved this, Westwood would have us in top six, Westwood is better at this, that and the other. 

 No matter what the reasons are behind the decision and despite the numerous unfounded conspiracy theories. 

The FACTS are as follows:

No1  keeper C.Dawson  (future) 

No2  keeper J.Wildsmith  (future) 

No3  keeper K.Westwood (past) 

Westwood was a top keeper and maybe still is but the decision has been made to go with youth. We know your opinion but its time to move on and support the ones who currently have the shirt. 

 

 

[room0035]

1 minute ago, Willow Owl said:

All your arguement is based around hypothetical situations and if's, but's and maybe's. Westwood would have saved this, Westwood would have us in top six, Westwood is better at this, that and the other. 

 No matter what the reasons are behind the decision and despite the numerous unfounded conspiracy theories. 

The FACTS are as follows:

No1  keeper C.Dawson  (future) 

No2  keeper J.Wildsmith  (future) 

No3  keeper K.Westwood (past) 

Westwood was a top keeper and maybe still is but the decision has been made to go with youth. We know your opinion but its time to move on and support the ones who currently have the shirt. 

 

 

I do support the approach of youth but its time the club stopped feeding the rounduns of we are going with the best players, we are not we are trying to cut costs which is fine. But then don't have a player who is better than what we currently have in that position sat in the stands.

 

Look this is very simple Thorniley is the best left sided fit centre back we have so he play, Left back Penney has shown his quality to be better than the other options of Fox and rightly has the shirt, Palmer has not been bad this season and I can only assume he is injured as Baker does not look ready for Championship football. Kirkby and other are in and around the first team but the likes of Bannan, Reach, Matias etc have the shirt to lose for them to get a chance. Maybe tonight with Bannan not available we will either give the loan kid a chance from Spurs or another youth player a chance. Wildsmith played really well last season for 20+ games now he only plays in the Cup. Dawson has done well but in 10 games he is still to keep a clean sheet. If Westwood has no chance of playing what has Wildsmith done wrong to equally have no chance of playing for me Wildsmith is the stronger player of the two and has better distribution of the ball.

 

The reason we had so many problem under Carlos was he had his favourite who played every game if fit, or if they were coming back from injury he rushed them back.

 

We should be picking the best player for each position and currently I do not believe this to be the case with Westwood - BUT the manager and the club have known from well before the season that Dawson was number 1 then why is Westwood still at the club, even loaning him out and paying half his wages will be a significant saving on his wages instead he will be sat in the stands with the fans tonight watching the game.

[GY-owl.4]

are folk still crying like babies about KW?

 

FFS get over it, get over yourselves. petulant posting.... flippingcomparing gareth Bale with KW ffs. 

 

grow up.

[FreshOwl]

So Dawson couldn’t have saved any of the 15 goals he’s conceded?

our fans really are desperate for a youth hero 

[Offside_Owl]

20 hours ago, room0035 said:

I also feel for Wildsmith show the second half of last season what a good keeper he is. 

 

Six errors leading to goals in 25 starts. More than any other player in the Championship.

[room0035]

Just now, Offside_Owl said:

 

Six errors leading to goals in 25 starts. More than any other player in the Championship.

So you take one stat lets have another how many clean sheets in 25 games 8 clean sheet so 1 in every 3 that got to put him in the top 5 or 6 for the last 25 games in the season.

 

Stats can kind of say what ever you want.

 

 

[GY-owl.4]

25 minutes ago, room0035 said:

So you take one stat lets have another how many clean sheets in 25 games 8 clean sheet so 1 in every 3 that got to put him in the top 5 or 6 for the last 25 games in the season.

 

Stats can kind of say what ever you want.

 

 

so if a keeper can manage to keep 1 clean sheet in three they are allowed to chuck one in their goal once every 4 games?

come on, 

 

i know its ok for folk to have a difference of opinion on stuff, but what are folk seeing to rate Wildsmith better than Dawson!?

Its not even close. 

 

we all loved KW, even when he dropped a clanger we supported him, same with Wildsmith, made lots of poor errors leading directly to goals, but has never took one tenth of the criticism Dawson has took this season.

 

Dawson yet to make an error leading to goals, for me, he has some errors in the bank compared to the other keepers and when he does fizz up that leads to a goal. ill continue to support him. mainly cos i really rate him.

 

normally with difference of opinion on here i can see the other point of view even if i dont agree with it, but ive gotta be honest, all these Dawson threads this week have been utterly bizarre, the GK dept is the least of our worries!

[owlZfan84]

24 pages.

 

[room0035]

6 minutes ago, GY-owl.4 said:

so if a keeper can manage to keep 1 clean sheet in three they are allowed to chuck one in their goal once every 4 games?

come on, 

 

i know its ok for folk to have a difference of opinion on stuff, but what are folk seeing to rate Wildsmith better than Dawson!?

Its not even close. 

 

we all loved KW, even when he dropped a clanger we supported him, same with Wildsmith, made lots of poor errors leading directly to goals, but has never took one tenth of the criticism Dawson has took this season.

 

Dawson yet to make an error leading to goals, for me, he has some errors in the bank compared to the other keepers and when he does fizz up that leads to a goal. ill continue to support him. mainly cos i really rate him.

 

normally with difference of opinion on here i can see the other point of view even if i dont agree with it, but ive gotta be honest, all these Dawson threads this week have been utterly bizarre, the GK dept is the least of our worries!

Not been to many games this season then.

 

Westwood has not had a chance - he has been labelled a trouble maker, over the hill, injury prone etc when in reality its because he is on a good wage but instead of saying this we have all the rounduns week in week out.

 

I hope we don't find an attacking minded player or Fessi will be over the hill, injury prone, past it etc as well

[sonofbert2]

3 hours ago, fred mciver said:

Agree, and the reason's Chansiri's ego - just like Hirsty matter too and other issues .

 

This isn't a court of law - don't need evidence of morale issues, just human nature so can infer.

 

However, Westy's tweet of FIFA goalie rankings must have gone down well with our 2 young keepers.

 

Like last year, when we were told all injured for Hutch to pop up and tweet that was rubbish.

 

Westwood's tweet said one thing only and it was about him and his attitude and only went to perhaps reinforce the decision made regarding his current absence from the first team.

 

The two youngsters in front of him have worked hard within the set up to achieve the positions they have found themselves in and no doubt too have been frustrated when sat on the sidelines in the past watching a keeper playing in front of them with an obvious injury but neither took to Twitter to make snide comments about it.

 

 

 

 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

10 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Not been to many games this season then.

 

Westwood has not had a chance - he has been labelled a trouble maker, over the hill, injury prone etc when in reality its because he is on a good wage but instead of saying this we have all the rounduns week in week out.

 

I hope we don't find an attacking minded player or Fessi will be over the hill, injury prone, past it etc as well

There's a young 18 year old coming through 

Born in Hillsborough 

Banging 30 a season in for us

On 5 grand a week 8 year contract ready to play in January ..

 F***k off Fernando. ....

I just made that up 

So easy to do isn't it ......

 

[sonofbert2]

This thread and the attitude towards this situation sums up the worst in some of our "supporters" for me.

 

They sit and wait for our young keeper to make mistakes, or invent situations where he might have done better, purely to strengthen their argument in support of a keeper who has fallen out with the club and been sidelined.  All this when the team is doing reasonably well and rather than supporting the young lad now between the sticks and enjoying our decent start.

 

They are more anti-club than pro-team.

Edited October 3, 2018 by sonofbert2

[brando]

2 hours ago, room0035 said:

Youth deserves a chance at the right time, Penney has proved he is better than Fox, You or me could probably prove we are better than Fox but Dawson is learning as is Wildsmith. Wildsmith got a taste last season and performed well and has been rewarded with being dropped to the bench and not played. He is a kid and he will want first team football which will mean we either loan him out or he leaves.

 

What ever has happened with Westwood he is not playing any form of football be it first team or development games. If you have no intention of playing him so be it but then you look at the club in a transfer embargo because of financial losses then a 3rd choice keeper on in excess of £1m a year not playing, not in the team why why why has this been allowed to happen.

 

This guy in over 150 appearances has a record close to 1 clean sheet in every 3 or 4 games, he help us stay in the division in the first two years, was a pivotal reason why we got to two play off and now he is on the scrap heap never to play again.

 

Its like Real Madrid dumping Gareth Bale because they have a kid coming through who needs first team football you simply would not do it. Yes give youth a chance but we are also in a results game and if we finish a few points outside of the play off are we going to say never mind Dawson has been good for the experience or do we say if Westwood was playing we would have been in the play offs. Its your choice mine is currently the best option we have in goal is Westwood.

 

  

course hes our best keeper,if not best in division ffs

[GY-owl.4]

22 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Not been to many games this season then.

 

Westwood has not had a chance - he has been labelled a trouble maker, over the hill, injury prone etc when in reality its because he is on a good wage but instead of saying this we have all the rounduns week in week out.

 

I hope we don't find an attacking minded player or Fessi will be over the hill, injury prone, past it etc as well

 

Seen more games this season than ever... still a ST holder, but seemed to have found a feed online for just about all our away games.

 

this post seems quite childish to me, or straw clutching... have you got a link where he has been labelled a trouble maker? or over the Hill? or injury prone? (you could argue that last bit is quite true tho) 

 

 From what ive read/seen Jos has said KW hasnt been a problem at all and its footy reasons. i have no reason to disbelieve him.

if it IS money reasons then its been taken out of Jos' hands anyway so why the criticism,

 

you could guarantee KW could get back up to the form of 2 or 3 seasons ago then it might have been worth while putting him back in. but last season he wasnt great and on the few occasions he played he was average and not fully fit. how many times did we sub him during games? too many. 

His arc is arguably on its way down, where Dawsons will be going up. while Dawson might not ever be as good as KW was in his prime, Jos is judging it on the here and now. 

 

 

 

[owlZfan84]

18 minutes ago, sw1867 said:

 

Name one, just one where he was at fault. Not where you think he should have done better, one where he was at fault.

 

I admit, as I am sure Dawson would that he has made mistakes and ones he would hope to do better with next time.

 

I think he had a poor game against Leeds particularly with high balls but nothing that led to us conceding.

 

Did you read my post earlier about the defence Westwood had in front of him compared to now which could / did contribute to clean sheets. Do you agree or disagree with that?

 

I rate Dawson.

 

He's a cracking shot stopper. However, I think his positional awareness is poor and needs addressing.

 

The Reading goal a few weeks ago was prime example of that. For me, he should never be getting beaten from there with a header from that distance out.. He's position was all kinds of wrong, and I'd class him at fault for that goal.

 

 

[sonofbert2]

Just now, sw1867 said:

 

Depends on the subject. In terms of players and the games I try to remain positive and get behind them as hopefully my posts on this thread have demonstrated.

 

I have been accused by some as being a moaner however this has always been about pricing, kits, lack of commercial decisions etc. But my views are always coming from a desire to get things right and not to wind people up.

 

Despite all if the opposing views I believe everyone on here apart from the weird pigs on a Wednesday forum want the best for SWFC. I don’t agree with several posters, such as room0035 on this topic however I don’t think his desire for Westwood to play is from a stand point of damaging the club. I think he believes (correct me if I’m wrong room0035) that Westwood playing makes us stronger. Making stuff up and staring rumour as fact doesn’t help though

 

All part of life’s rich tapestry.

 

.

 

I agree with almost all of what you say but there is a conscious grouping of some issues on the playing side that are tied together with the stuff on the "club" side that sort of depend on failure on the playing side to strengthen the case re. the club being run badly.  

 

It's tricky to explain and it's a bit weird and I'm not signed up to the programne.

 

Westwood is one of these causes.  Dawson failing means the club were wrong to sideline Westwood but not purely on the basis of a football decision.  His (AW's) wages, service, percieved ill treatment etc etc are all brought into it.

 

Many have already tied their flag to the Westwood mast based on DC being stubborn, spiteful, childish and a bully and Jos being his yes man so sadly it is in their interests for Dawson to fail.

 

After the Forest defeat they were all out in force and the threads were moved to the Boardroom section but this keeper situation is now a new string in the bow to fire arrows at DC and the club. Westwood is the latest Clare, Hirst or McGugan, take your pick, in an effort to undermine the chairman's decision making and abilities with regards to his running of the club.

 

I just see it as sort of wanting us to do badly just to be proved right all along to the crowd.

 

It's probably a bit more infuriating for me I think because I know that Westwood is no angel and I know he isn't costing as much as people are making out while he is being paid and not playing.

[fred mciver]

14 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said:

 

I agree with almost all of what you say but there is a conscious grouping of some issues on the playing side that are tied together with the stuff on the "club" side that sort of depend on failure on the playing side to strengthen the case re. the club being run badly.  

 

It's tricky to explain and it's a bit weird and I'm not signed up to the programne.

 

Westwood is one of these causes.  Dawson failing means the club were wrong to sideline Westwood but not purely on the basis of a football decision.  His (AW's) wages, service, percieved ill treatment etc etc are all brought into it.

 

Many have already tied their flag to the Westwood mast based on DC being stubborn, spiteful, childish and a bully and Jos being his yes man so sadly it is in their interests for Dawson to fail.

 

After the Forest defeat they were all out in force and the threads were moved to the Boardroom section but this keeper situation is now a new string in the bow to fire arrows at DC and the club. Westwood is the latest Clare, Hirst or McGugan, take your pick, in an effort to undermine the chairman's decision making and abilities with regards to his running of the club.

 

I just see it as sort of wanting us to do badly just to be proved right all along to the crowd.

 

It's probably a bit more infuriating for me I think because I know that Westwood is no angel and I know he isn't costing as much as people are making out while he is being paid and not playing.

No, it's wanting us to do better as we can get in top 6 with some clean sheets.

 

Dawson will be a good keeper soon and a bit of debate on here shouldn't worry him.

 

Owner undermined himself badly - starting with Doyen - and shouldn't get away with more.

 

He may even listen and learn (Radio Sheffield?). 

[sonofbert2]

Just now, fred mciver said:

No, it's wanting us to do better as we can get in top 6 with some clean sheets.

 

Dawson will be a good keeper soon and a bit of debate on here shouldn't worry him.

 

Owner undermined himself badly - starting with Doyen - and shouldn't get away with more.

 

He may even listen and learn (Radio Sheffield?). 

 

You have no idea about the ins and outs of his dealings with Doyen as you have shown here with your speculation re. Westwood.

 

New owner without previous football experience is ripped off a bit by predatory agents and advisors and not everyone signed was successful either.

 

Hardly surprising or groundbreaking stuff is it?

 

 

[torryowl]

since dawson came into the side we are 6-4-3 with 16 goals conceded …….I don't know but i'd guess that's a better record than wildsmith & westwood had in there last 13 games . ……..the lads got the shirt and done nothing  that says he should lose it …….what message does it send out to the rest of the squad if no matter how well you do when the experienced player is fit your out the team …..