ENGLAND 1 - 2 CROATIA | World Cup Semi Final | Matchday Thread

[cowl]

4 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

We struggled the teams very young, don't see how you cannot see they gave their all throughout the tournament, the 1990 I'll give you that but that was nearly 20 years ago. 

 

They're not young though. The team we put out today had an average age of almost 26.

 

And don't suggest I've said things I haven't. I've not said they didn't give their all before today. I said they didn't give their all today.

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

Just now, cowl said:

 

They're not young though. The team we put out today had an average age of almost 26.

 

And don't suggest I've said things I haven't. I've not said they didn't give their all before today. I said they didn't give their all today.

The main players are young, and have maybe two world cups left. They gave their all, Croatia are alot better than I feel you are giving them credit for, before the WC we wouldn't have been suprise if they didn't get out of the group. They were naive yes, but gave more than any team have in the world cup since 1990, the teams since couldn't have played like they cared less. The current youth teams are winning tournaments this team got to the semis, I am more than optimistic for England's near future after this tournament personally. 

[Anton DecChair]

It's been fun and enjoyable. Maguire, Pickford and Trippier have stepped up and looked the part, but England showed that they're a 30 minute team and can't think their way round a problem ... neither can Southgate. Admittedly he didn't have any depth to the squad to change things. Thanks for the ride lads but we wait to see if you can deliver the goods against a decent side in a tournament.

[cowl]

8 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

The main players are young, and have maybe two world cups left. They gave their all, Croatia are alot better than I feel you are giving them credit for, before the WC we wouldn't have been suprise if they didn't get out of the group. They were naive yes, but gave more than any team have in the world cup since 1990, the teams since couldn't have played like they cared less. The current youth teams are winning tournaments this team got to the semis, I am more than optimistic for England's near future after this tournament personally. 

 

Don't just repeat what you've got from Sky or the BBC. We were on top tonight - well on top - in the first 40 minutes or so. I can forgive the team for missing chances because that really is football. It gets very hard however to just ignore how after that point Croatia were able to just assert pressure with very little response from us. We were happy to sit back it seemed. Don't tell me about Croatia's reputation. Thanks. I'm well aware of it. And equally, don't ignore that for the vast majority of the first half we had the better of them, because that was also the Croatian team that you think I should give more credit to. All teams in this tournament are capable enough if you sit back and defend a lead - and that's what we did today. It's not that we lost, it's the way we lost.

[pachyderm]

Mario Mandžukić what a time wasting piece of ss.hi.t.

[Athelwulf]

It's true that we'd never have had a better chance of winning it ... had we had a team good enough to win it, which we don't.

 

In my book we haven't "blown it", it's just that we're not good enough to win it this time.

 

Success is relative; the most successful team at this tournament is probably Russia, a 70th-placed team which finishes in the top 8.

 

The question is, have we finished worse than expected, broken even, or finished above par.

 

In my book it's the last scenario, which for many years wasn't the case.

 

OK, a nation of Croatia's size shouldn't be beating ours, but that's down to our system not being good enough.

[bobness]

6 hours ago, vulva said:

Walker was MOTM tonight. Our defence isn’t the issue. It’s our lack of creativity to break teams down and protect the ball that holds us back.

 

At 1-0 we should have kept the ball and picked them off. Instead we played 100 mph Sky Sports long ball togger. 

 

And that’s why we are playing the World Cup version of Johnny Quinn’s Allstars against Belgium on Saturday. 

 

Totally forgot about that "third place" match. Does anyone really give two rogers about it? It's not the Olympics (where you have a third place), so why does it even exist? Such a sad and pathetic match.

[shezzas left peg]

7 hours ago, camffiti said:

Summery of England's tournament 

 

Progressed as far as anyone could expect, without beating any top tier teams

 

+ Pickford
+ Maguire
+ Stones
+ Trippier
+ Young
+ Henderson

 

- Alli
- Sterling
- Rashford

 

The invisible 3 behind Kane need to be ditched. It's too much work for Kane & Henderson too carry

 

The lack of anything tangible from Alli & Sterling isn't a hindsight thing ... They've done very little throughout their England careers 

Ali shouldn't have been playing, was limping about for the 3rd game running, never recovered from that thigh strain. 

Sterling for me is like that really quick kid at school when your 10 years old, looks brilliant on the ball but picks all the wrong options. 

[owls66]

I am so proud of this team.

 

We beat Tunisia, Sweden, Columbia (on pens) and mighty Panama in the tournament.

 

Doesn’t get much better than that.

 

World class.

 

[Guest Bulgaria]

Obviously gutted but wow what a ride. Loved the last 3 weeks.

We just missed a cutting edge and Croatia were very good.

 

Be reyt.

 

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

6 hours ago, cowl said:

 

Don't just repeat what you've got from Sky or the BBC. We were on top tonight - well on top - in the first 40 minutes or so. I can forgive the team for missing chances because that really is football. It gets very hard however to just ignore how after that point Croatia were able to just assert pressure with very little response from us. We were happy to sit back it seemed. Don't tell me about Croatia's reputation. Thanks. I'm well aware of it. And equally, don't ignore that for the vast majority of the first half we had the better of them, because that was also the Croatian team that you think I should give more credit to. All teams in this tournament are capable enough if you sit back and defend a lead - and that's what we did today. It's not that we lost, it's the way we lost.

Don't know what you are getting at to be honest, we were beaten by a better team. That's what better teams do they beat teams they are better than. We blew out, the 30/40 mins is all we could do. We didn't sit back we were forced back, we had no players capable of changing the game when they clocked us. Not a lack of having a go just ability, unlike very recent England teams who couldn't beat the USA, Costa Rica, Iceland or Algeria in a major tournament. Are you saying this performance was worse then those games? Despite us being better than them but just couldn't be arsed. 

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

7 hours ago, cowl said:

 

Don't just repeat what you've got from Sky or the BBC. We were on top tonight - well on top - in the first 40 minutes or so. I can forgive the team for missing chances because that really is football. It gets very hard however to just ignore how after that point Croatia were able to just assert pressure with very little response from us. We were happy to sit back it seemed. Don't tell me about Croatia's reputation. Thanks. I'm well aware of it. And equally, don't ignore that for the vast majority of the first half we had the better of them, because that was also the Croatian team that you think I should give more credit to. All teams in this tournament are capable enough if you sit back and defend a lead - and that's what we did today. It's not that we lost, it's the way we lost.

Your also saying you can forgive misses, if Kane had buried those chances and we had won 3-1 in normal time. I very much doubt you would be on here bitching. 

[cowl]

1 hour ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

Don't know what you are getting at to be honest, we were beaten by a better team. That's what better teams do they beat teams they are better than. We blew out, the 30/40 mins is all we could do. We didn't sit back we were forced back, we had no players capable of changing the game when they clocked us. Not a lack of having a go just ability, unlike very recent England teams who couldn't beat the USA, Costa Rica, Iceland or Algeria in a major tournament. Are you saying this performance was worse then those games? Despite us being better than them but just couldn't be arsed. 

 

No. Other poor England performances doesn't prevent yesterday's performance from being poor. Those performances were poorer to differing degrees, but yesterday's performance still ranks as poor.

 

1 hour ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

Your also saying you can forgive misses, if Kane had buried those chances and we had won 3-1 in normal time. I very much doubt you would be on here bitching. 

 

You seem to be having difficulty with the notion of knockout tournament football being a game played over 90 (or possibly 120) sequential minutes. I'm judging England's performance based on how they managed the game in front of them. It's all about reactions. They weren't 3-0 up at half time (as in your scenario), they were 1-0 up. Being 3-0 up is different - much different - to being 1-0 up. And sitting back in the latter is a different proposition to sitting back in the former.

 

As it happens we sat back on a 1-0 lead - and then even worse, when we did concede we were still barely doing much to rouse ourselves to hit back. We seemed content to see if Rashford could do it all by himself. Credit to England's performance in the 1st half of extra time because that was more in fitting with the 1st half of normal time. Then we concede and there barely seemed to be much positive reaction.

 

Like I say, it's all about reactions to events on the pitch as the game unfolds. Croatia's reactions were ultimately better than ours. There's no contradiction in saying that whilst also asking where was our reaction, and in particular our game management in the 2nd half of normal time was very poor.

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

28 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

No. Other poor England performances doesn't prevent yesterday's performance from being poor. Those performances were poorer to differing degrees, but yesterday's performance still ranks as poor.

 

 

You seem to be having difficulty with the notion of knockout tournament football being a game played over 90 (or possibly 120) sequential minutes. I'm judging England's performance based on how they managed the game in front of them. It's all about reactions. They weren't 3-0 up at half time (as in your scenario), they were 1-0 up. Being 3-0 up is different - much different - to being 1-0 up. And sitting back in the latter is a different proposition to sitting back in the former.

 

As it happens we sat back on a 1-0 lead - and then even worse, when we did concede we were still barely doing much to rouse ourselves to hit back. We seemed content to see if Rashford could do it all by himself. Credit to England's performance in the 1st half of extra time because that was more in fitting with the 1st half of normal time. Then we concede and there barely seemed to be much positive reaction.

 

Like I say, it's all about reactions to events on the pitch as the game unfolds. Croatia's reactions were ultimately better than ours. There's no contradiction in saying that whilst also asking where was our reaction, and in particular our game management in the 2nd half of normal time was very poor.

We didn't sit back we were pegged back. Cannot see how you don't see that, they pressed and neutralised us, we didn't go defensive. The English team wasn't exceptionally talented and did very well imo, just beaten by a better team. If you want to moan at anything moan at the fact the larger clubs don't play English players and then attempt to steal ones from lower league clubs that will play them. There was nothing to manage no plan b, we have no decent sub options, that's the current state of English football, but the future looks better. Didn't expect us to get out of our group before it started, these lads have done well and gave their all. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by dontCallMeOwlCallYou

[cowl]

19 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

We didn't sit back we were pegged back. Cannot see how you don't see that, they pressed and neutralised us, we didn't go defensive. The English team wasn't exceptionally talented and did very well imo, just beaten by a better team. If you want to moan at anything moan at the fact the larger clubs don't play English players and then attempt to steal ones from lower league clubs that will play them. There was nothing to manage no plan b, we have no decent sub options, that's the current state of English football, but the future looks better. Didn't expect us to get out of our group before it started, these lads have done well and gave their all. 

 

Why? You seem to think English football is f*cked. So why do you think the future looks better? You seem very negative and pessimistic about the English team to me.

 

And I'm not going to go round in circles arguing the throw about whether we sat back or we were pegged back. Again, to suggest we were pegged back by a superior Croatian side that merely had to assert that superiority and we'd be powerless is to completely ignore we had the better of them in the first half. Croatia regrouped at half time and came up with a plan to combat us in the second half. Where was our reaction to their reaction?

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

11 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

Why? You seem to think English football is f*cked. So why do you think the future looks better? You seem very negative and pessimistic about the English team to me.

 

And I'm not going to go round in circles arguing the throw about whether we sat back or we were pegged back. Again, to suggest we were pegged back by a superior Croatian side that merely had to assert that superiority and we'd be powerless is to completely ignore we had the better of them in the first half. Croatia regrouped at half time and came up with a plan to combat us in the second half. Where was our reaction to their reaction?

It's looks better because rules are being brought in to stop big clubs doing what they have been doing. Which has worked wonders with the youth teams winning major tournaments and younger England players mixing with the best at their age levels again. I have been pessimistic about the vast majority of England teams in the last 20 years. But my comment was about English club football that very obviously isn't completely rosey is it, teams are buying left backs for more than some of the traditionally largest clubs in the country cost, and not playing English players but are slowly getting forced too. 

 

We aren't going in circles you are talking poo mate. We have no option b as I said before when they clocked us they won. Our team is going in the right direction after years and years of arrogance. No technical mess up, no lack of heart, we for once played to the best of our a ability. And lost, we should be gracious in defeat for once. That performance was not a surrender or cannot be bothered. 

 

The comments form other posters about us beating no one decent are ridiculous, and make the people making them sound like idiots. 

[East Yorks Owl]

49 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

We didn't sit back we were pegged back. Cannot see how you don't see that, they pressed and neutralised us, we didn't go defensive. The English team wasn't exceptionally talented and did very well imo, just beaten by a better team. If you want to moan at anything moan at the fact the larger clubs don't play English players and then attempt to steal ones from lower league clubs that will play them. There was nothing to manage no plan b, we have no decent sub options, that's the current state of English football, but the future looks better. Didn't expect us to get out of our group before it started, these lads have done well and gave their all. 

 

At half time I  was hoping it was going to be a re-run of the Sweden game, but alas Croatia had the heart and quality to hurt us. I have to agree that the future looks better for the England team.  The whole structure and ethos appears to be much better under Southgate and based on the success of the younger England teams there’s got to be grounds for optimism. 

 

Similar to Wednesday under Jos, I like the 3, 5, 2 formation. It feels like the right option in the modern game, but really needs quality wing backs with pace to make it work. I agree with the above post that we lacked a bit of quality on the bench. Personally I would have played Loftus Cheek ahead iof Dier. Not saying Dier is a bad player, but for me he hasn’t looked comfortable on the ball this tournament.

 

Looking at the tournament as a whole I think England have played a more confident and brave brand of football and I expect Southgate to continue in this vain going forwards. Without doubt we could really do with a bit more individual quality, especially in midfield, but on the whole I am positive that the team is going in the right direction.

[cowl]

39 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

It's looks better because rules are being brought in to stop big clubs doing what they have been doing. Which has worked wonders with the youth teams winning major tournaments and younger England players mixing with the best at their age levels again. I have been pessimistic about the vast majority of England teams in the last 20 years. But my comment was about English club football that very obviously isn't completely rosey is it, teams are buying left backs for more than some of the traditionally largest clubs in the country cost, and not playing English players but are slowly getting forced too. 

 

We aren't going in circles you are talking poo mate. We have no option b as I said before when they clocked us they won. Our team is going in the right direction after years and years of arrogance. No technical mess up, no lack of heart, we for once played to the best of our a ability. And lost, we should be gracious in defeat for once. That performance was not a surrender or cannot be bothered. 

 

The comments form other posters about us beating no one decent are ridiculous, and make the people making them sound like idiots. 

 

Why are you so happy to say we had no plan b, and yet think the team (and management) can be exonerated from criticism? If you really think we had no plan b, I don't see how you can think that's even remotely acceptable.

 

And why do you think that refusing to blame the England team for their performance is the same as being gracious in defeat? I'm saying Croatia won because they played better than we did. You're saying Croatia won because they are better than us, and that's not being gracious in defeat, it is being defeatist though.

[Lythamowl]

Croatia played well in the second half and grew as the game went on. They were worthy winners in the end.

 

For a small country who has been through so much turmoil in its recent history it has done very well.

 

I wish them well and hope they can beat france in the final but fear that maybe a big ask.

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

5 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

Why are you so happy to say we had no plan b, and yet think the team (and management) can be exonerated from criticism? If you really think we had no plan b, I don't see how you can think that's even remotely acceptable.

 

And why do you think that refusing to blame the England team for their performance is the same as being gracious in defeat? I'm saying Croatia won because they played better than we did. You're saying Croatia won because they are better than us, and that's not being gracious in defeat, it is being defeatist though.

We had no plan b, due to the way the English game was run not so long ago. Look at it this way.

 

Rooney is the same age as mandzukic. He is no longer up to it. Wilshire should have been the creative spark, he done at 26. Walcott done, Shaw never made it. Shelvey, the list goes on,

 

All those players should be options, they were either way over payed too young, or moved too young on massive money and no one could afford to loan them. 

 

I don't exonerate any critism, I see it as uncalled for. The manager used the resources available, a good team knew our weaknesses and we didn't have anymore options. What do you want Southgate to do, stop the aforementioned players from drinking and smoking every weekend. 

 

I suppose we won't agree on how to lose, we all have different emotions. For me we are not ready and I didn't expect us to get out of the group, we are going the right way but the damage is still reaping its head. I am not happy with defeat but except we were beaten by a better team, things change and their team would not be as good as ours in a few years, right now it's their day unfortunately.