ENGLAND 1 - 2 CROATIA | World Cup Semi Final | Matchday Thread

[Guest wilyfox]

We didn't inflict enough damage first half. Had to get the job done when on top. Needed second goal. Those chances for Kane & Lingard went begging.

 

Overall, the boys done good. After pathetic attempts at recent tournaments, I wanted England to play well and have a go. They certainly did that.

 

Had we been offered semi-final & likely golden boot for Harry Kane, I'm sure most would have been very happy with that. I am. 

[Mr Hooper]

Not nice to watch us crash out after all the hope and excitement about Sunday.

BUT was it as heartbreaking at the defeat at Wembley for us? - No where near.

[cowl]

11 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

We had no plan b, due to the way the English game was run not so long ago. Look at it this way.

 

Rooney is the same age as mandzukic. He is no longer up to it. Wilshire should have been the creative spark, he done at 26. Walcott done, Shaw never made it. Shelvey, the list goes on,

 

All those players should be options, they were either way over payed too young, or moved too young on massive money and no one could afford to loan them. 

 

I don't exonerate any critism, I see it as uncalled for. The manager used the resources available, a good team knew our weaknesses and we didn't have anymore options. What do you want Southgate to do, stop the aforementioned players from drinking and smoking every weekend. 

 

I suppose we won't agree on how to lose, we all have different emotions. For me we are not ready and I didn't expect us to get out of the group, we are going the right way but the damage is still reaping its head. I am not happy with defeat but except we were beaten by a better team, things change and their team would not be as good as ours in a few years, right now it's their day unfortunately. 

 

There's very little difference between the two. You say it's uncalled for because you had an impoverished view of the England team to begin with.

 

My view is based on what I saw in front of me over 120 minutes. We managed the 2nd half poorly, after having played very well in the 1st half. Very little tactical reaction from Southgate in that 2nd half. You say it's because he just didn't have the players at his disposal, and that it's not his fault there was no plan b. I don't see how you can so airily hold that view. He picked the squad. He selects the team. He makes the substitutions. He presides over the tactical direction of the performance.

 

Southgate has deserved much of the praise he's received this last month, by the way, and it seems that now the collective will of the nation is to continue to pour the praise over him. I really hope though that Southgate's view on last night isn't so flaky. I really hope he isn't comforting himself (as you are) with the thought that "it's hardly to be expected that I could have done anything about Croatia actually wanting to win the game, after all they are the better side, and what with the lack of decent players for me to pick from nobody could suggest I ought to have had a plan on how to combat a superior Croatian side."

[Athelwulf]

The weather's what it's doing now.

 

The climate's what the weather's like generally.

 

In meteorological terms it turned out nice for us at this tournament, for once.

 

It was hotter in the UK than in Brazil.

 

But the real powerhouses of international football simply have better climates than us, even though they may have bad weather from time to time.

 

We're much better at selling football around the world than we are at playing it, which is why we'll probably never win the World Cup again.

[VictoryBell]

On ‎10‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 17:53, oh_weds_we_love_you said:

 

It's just a song. It's football fans enjoying the ride. It's the kind of stuff football is about.

 

If you can't enjoy the moment, allow yourself to dream and get carried away, and get caught up in the atmosphere when England are in the semi-final of a World Cup, then I'm not so sure football is your bag pal.

 

By the way, it's coming home!!

 

 

Well, it seems no-one's bothered to post this obvious joke so here goes......

 

Q: What's the difference between Lassie and football?

A: Lassie came home!

 

Please don't repeat this joke before 10pm tonight or Jim Davidson will want his £2.50 back

[Groundhopping Owl]

I don't think there's a case to be made that the players didn't leave it all out there or could have given more in any way last night - people got so absorbed in the narrative of Croatia having played two 120 minute games in a row that they forgot the possibility of us being knackered too. Kane and Trippier have been our two best players this summer (and fully deserve to be in the team of the tournament) but they were clearly both carrying knocks the whole second half and we ran out of steam. Hats off to Croatia for finding a second wind from God knows where and giving our midfielders a lesson in ball retention and movement. We were shown the cold light of day last night and reminded that as we suspected before the tournament, the team and manager had a ceiling. Southgate made the wrong changes at the wrong time last night and the way we looked panicked on the ball throughout the second half was horribly reminiscent of previous failed England sides.

 

It was a very fun ride, but I have to say I'm absolutely gutted. I've heard many like Clive Tyldesley and Dion Dublin saying that there's lots of positives to take, we're back among the big time and that we can go further in future tournaments - sorry, but I'm not buying that yet. I'm not saying we're going back to the McClaren/Capello/Hodgson days of being essentially sh*t, but we will never get a chance as good as that to get into a World Cup final again. Winning at half time in the semi-final having run through one of the easiest draws on record? It's a huge opportunity wasted and although we may do well at Euro 2020, my hopes are not high for 2022. First off it's in Qatar, so I'll be extremely hard-pushed to be remotely enthused about it, plus the resurgence of traditional powers like Germany and Brazil will probably leave no room for us in the last four. 

[Guest Bulgaria]

1 hour ago, Mr Hooper said:

Not nice to watch us crash out after all the hope and excitement about Sunday.

BUT was it as heartbreaking at the defeat at Wembley for us? - No where near.

For me it was.

The owls I am sure will be in the playoff final long before England are 25 minutes away from a world cup final again.

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

1 hour ago, cowl said:

 

There's very little difference between the two. You say it's uncalled for because you had an impoverished view of the England team to begin with.

 

My view is based on what I saw in front of me over 120 minutes. We managed the 2nd half poorly, after having played very well in the 1st half. Very little tactical reaction from Southgate in that 2nd half. You say it's because he just didn't have the players at his disposal, and that it's not his fault there was no plan b. I don't see how you can so airily hold that view. He picked the squad. He selects the team. He makes the substitutions. He presides over the tactical direction of the performance.

 

Southgate has deserved much of the praise he's received this last month, by the way, and it seems that now the collective will of the nation is to continue to pour the praise over him. I really hope though that Southgate's view on last night isn't so flaky. I really hope he isn't comforting himself (as you are) with the thought that "it's hardly to be expected that I could have done anything about Croatia actually wanting to win the game, after all they are the better side, and what with the lack of decent players for me to pick from nobody could suggest I ought to have had a plan on how to combat a superior Croatian side."

Your right Burnley had a poo season last year because they didn't have a plan to finish above the top 4. 

 

A flake? You and a few others are suggesting that was our only chance. I am not and saying we will move on, so who has the loser mentality? 

[dorian gray]

we had enough chances to bury them in the first half, but 'standard english finishing' only put one away.

then onto tactics, remember a month or so ago when it was posted on here that what we needed in the coming season was wing backs to ensure our success, well what we saw in the second half was 'the counter' to wing backs, wide flank attackers, to force the wing backs to retreat into the back line, thus giving us a back five and a midfield 3 struggling to get out of our own half, and dominated by the croats.

southgate failed to counter just as maclaren had done so some dozen years earlier when faced with the exact some problem. we had started with the tournaments 'top marksman' in a withdrawn role, whilst trying to supply 'the most wasteful' englishman available up top?

the first croat goal would have been a free kick for 'dangerous play' anywhere else on the field, but in the england penalty area it doesn't get given, and this only minutes after sterling has been fouled on the deadball line in their penalty area, just bad luck? or just some more bad luck for england again?

[dorian gray]

16 hours ago, Holmowl said:

Not quite good enough, but very nearly.

 

You can’t miss the Kane chance (or slide across to Sterling) and fall asleep twice in your six yard box and expect to beat the likes of Croatia. Our players were not quite good enough at the highest level.

 

But some of you are being too harsh. The weakest set of players for years have got further and played better than the Beckhams, Shearers, Owens, Scoles, Coles, Lampards, Ferdinands, Terrys, Rooneys etc etc etc 

 

We should be happy to have reached our first semi in 28 years, and look forward with far more optimism for 2020.

sterling was a 'yard out' he'd have somehow managed to get it over the bar from there, he's good at that.

we were 'somewhat' lucky to get past the other games, lucky that southgate didn't try kane in the nets, as he'd have been as much use as he was last night when withdrawn into m/f.

how many other 'great' managers withdrew their top scorer into m/f in the latter stages of a world cup?

did zagallo withdraw jairzinho? or bearzot withdraw rossi?

you could have had a 'right swill' and still managed to pick a side with kane leading the line up top.

pisspoor management, at one point in the second half i had flashbacks to us at wembley with no answers, then in the last 2/3 minutes of extra time we're passing it backwards to pickford.

[brixowl]

Tactically naïve.

[Athelwulf]

We have no pedigree in international football whatsoever, which makes the pressure put on the team and manager by the tabloids in the past all the more ludicrous...or rather cynical.

 

Stoke up people's expectations through the roof, put enormous pressure on the players and coach so that they under-perform, then pan them when they crash out.

 

Had they not done that, then maybe we could have overachieved then, as now.

 

A nation of our resources should be able to beat the likes of Croatia 90% of the time, all things being equal.

 

But all things aren't equal.

 

This isn't a blip.

 

When you consider the host of players and managers who have represented England in this last half century, it's clear that our failure is not about individuals but rather the system which spawned them.

 

Maybe if these players go abroad then our chances will increase. 

[cowl]

48 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

Your right Burnley had a poo season last year because they didn't have a plan to finish above the top 4. 

 

A flake? You and a few others are suggesting that was our only chance. I am not and saying we will move on, so who has the loser mentality? 

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

48 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

What the hell are you talking about?

You know what I am on about, your suggesting that we cannot get beat by a better team on the day and people be happy with the efforts. Like we have a divine right to win with an inferior team.

 

Your also callling people happy with the efforts flakes and said earlier it's a losing mentality. Whilst suggesting that was our only major chance due to the draw, and we could never do it again, so who's got the loser mentality? 

[cowl]

28 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

You know what I am on about, your suggesting that we cannot get beat by a better team on the day and people be happy with the efforts. Like we have a divine right to win with an inferior team.

 

Your also callling people happy with the efforts flakes and said earlier it's a losing mentality. Whilst suggesting that was our only major chance due to the draw, and we could never do it again, so who's got the loser mentality? 

 

I'm asking you what you're on about because what you're saying I've said I haven't.

 

I've never once said that was our only major chance due to the draw. I've not said anything about that whatsoever.

 

I've not called anybody a 'flake'.

 

I've not said we cannot get beat by a better team on the day. On the contrary, I've already said that Croatia was the better team on the day.

 

I've not said we have a divine right to win any game. I don't know where you get that from.

 

So all in all, you're not making much sense to me.

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

16 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

I'm asking you what you're on about because what you're saying I've said I haven't.

 

I've never once said that was our only major chance due to the draw. I've not said anything about that whatsoever.

 

I've not called anybody a 'flake'.

 

I've not said we cannot get beat by a better team on the day. On the contrary, I've already said that Croatia was the better team on the day.

 

I've not said we have a divine right to win any game. I don't know where you get that from.

 

So all in all, you're not making much sense to me.

You said the following for a start.

 

"I reallyhope though that Southgate's view on last night isn't so flaky."

 

"Would you seriously have accepted a loss to Sweden?"

 

You talking poo mate, your implying it's all over,  your complaining about losing to world cup finalists. The team gave their all, they lost to the world cup finalists. 

 

How can I say this clearer. Croatia are a better team full stop. They gave their all, back to my original comment, its arrogant to say that we let them win. That's effectively what you saying our mistakes and rubbishness let them win. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by dontCallMeOwlCallYou

[cowl]

10 minutes ago, dontCallMeOwlCallYou said:

You said the following for a start.

 

"I reallyhope though that Southgate's view on last night isn't so flaky."

 

"Would you seriously have accepted a loss to Sweden?"

 

You talking poo mate, your implying it's all over,  your complaining about losing to world cup finalists. The team gave their all, they lost to the world cup finalists. 

 

How can I say this clearer. Croatia are a better team full stop. They gave their all, back to my original comment, its arrogant to say that we let them win. That's effectively what you saying our mistakes and rubbishness let them win. 

 

And who did I call a flake? Who? Certainly not Southgate. Not even you for that matter.

 

I don't see what me asking you whether you'd seriously accept a loss to Sweden equates to me actually saying you have a loser mentality. If you want to clarify your position then do so.

 

And now you're saying "it's arrogant to say that we let them win". When have I said we let them win?

 

Debate the points I actually make and not the points you keep bizarrely interpreting I've made.

[twolaptops]

Southgate to blame.....................Kane & Alli wanted "world cup semi on their CV's" so Southgate picked them even though not fit..........serves us right.........and hoof ball tactics against a proper footballing team...............second best all round

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

31 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

And who did I call a flake? Who? Certainly not Southgate. Not even you for that matter.

 

I don't see what me asking you whether you'd seriously accept a loss to Sweden equates to me actually saying you have a loser mentality. If you want to clarify your position then do so.

 

And now you're saying "it's arrogant to say that we let them win". When have I said we let them win?

 

Debate the points I actually make and not the points you keep bizarrely interpreting I've made.

Things are getting lost in translation here we are not fully getting each other, let's agree to disagree. It was disappointing. We are gutted, things could have been different yes. For me it's not how we played we did what we were capable of imo, Croatia player brilliant and they should be very very proud. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by dontCallMeOwlCallYou

[Athelwulf]

We developed a style to suit our conditions.

 

You can't knock the ball around on heavy pitches, and it's cold so nobody minds running around.

 

There's one game which sticks out in my mind in particular, against Everton at Hillsborough, late 80s in the winter.

 

We won 1-0, and the pitch was absolutely horrendous.

 

We all hoped that with the arrival of the PL, with better pitches and quality foreigners, that the national team would get better but it's never materialized.

 

In fact, it's made things even worse.

 

I don't buy this bottling accusation.

 

We got that from the Aussies at cricket when they'd got McGrath, Warne etc playing for them.

 

As soon as they hung up their pads Australia suddenly had a lot less bottle than before.

 

It's about quality, and it's a lot easier to have team spirit when you've got players like that in your outfit.

 

I do think that the pressure exerted by the media had an effect though.