Rhodes

[gurujuan]

On 26/04/2018 at 21:53, Dylan93 said:

We don’t play to his style. Reach, Boyd and Hunt aren’t consistent enough with the crossing. For Rhodes to work, you have to keep putting the ball into the box. If Rhodes played for the pigs instead of Clarke, he’d have 30+ with their style. I feel sorry for the lad. He’s had far too much pressure and his confidence has been knocked. I would keep him! Fletcher and Winnall can leave for me.

Nobody in the top divisions, plays to his style anymore He’s more suited to way footballs played in the lower leagues, which I suppose, is a big problem for us

[cookeh]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Nobody in the top divisions, plays to his style anymore He’s more suited to way footballs played in the lower leagues, which I suppose, is a big problem for us

 

That's silly on it's face. The world hasn't changed in 2 years, and 2 yearsa go he was scoring the goals that got Boro promoted and banging them in for Blackburn in the early part of the season. For us he's scored when he's had actual time on the pitch, instead of carlos' "have 20 minutes".

Under Carlos last season, in games Rhodes played more than an hour for us he scored a goal ever 2 games, even with our injuries, defensive mindset and poor supply. That's just a straight up fact.

Under Jos he hardly played, barely 300 minutes from the 20th of January to the end of the season. Joao and Nuhiu were at it, so Rhodes couldn't get a start.

He's effective at this level, even when we've got half the first team out and aren't set up to suit him.

 

In a 343 he's probably not as effective as Nuhiu (assuming his form continues), and that's fair enough.
When you have 8 forwards on the books, chances are, no one will be the strongest in every system.

3 up top suits Joao, Nuhiu/Fletch and Nando.
However, we could even play a 343 variant where the width really come from the wingbacks (instead of wingbacks and wide forwards) and we deploy Nando in a the hole behind 2 strikers. There, Rhodes would flourish.

 

352, which we played for the majority under Jos, is another question. In that set up, along side Nuhiu or Fletch, Rhodes is probably the best player we have. There's a case for Hooper, but age, contract and injury record mean he's not someone we should be making plans around. A 2 isn't really dynamic enough to get the best from Joao, tho he's probably adequate if needed, and Nando's shown a bunch of times that he's not a good partner for anyone in a front 2.

 

We've said countless times we need a plan b, Jos has also said he wants to be able to go into games with different systems. So for me, we need to be able to play a front 3 and a front 2 with maximum effectiveness. To that end, we need to hang onto Rhodes, Nuhiu, Nando, Joao and probably Fletch. A fit Matias would be really good for keeping Nando and Joao at their best. So the guys who end up surplus are Hooper (who we should be looking to move anyway) and Winnall (who is hopefully on his way as soon as he's fit).

 

Rhodes is only 28, and has a 2 years left on his contract. We should be making the best of having him, driving his price back up at the very least. Selling him now in a cut price deal is pure folly and would be going back to running the club like a bunch of clowns. I think there's a section of Wednesday fans who have a problem with players who cost money. Reach got pelters for costing 4-5m, until he was used halfway sensibly and showed that he's actually a decent player. Rhodes hasn't actually had the chance to show that, he's been misused since day 1. Accepting that it's 2018 and some players cost money would help. But anyway, at worst we give up and loan him out to let him shine for someone else, then cash in once he's shown he's still got it. At best we get behind him, play him (because he will score goals) and those goals will carry us to the right end of the table.

 

Guru's persistence with this myth that football has been revolutionised in the last 2 years is just silly.

He seems to have made it up with the sole purpose of trying to convince people that Rhodes is a bad striker.

It's utterly ridiculous.

[Hookowl]

10 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

That's silly on it's face. The world hasn't changed in 2 years, and 2 yearsa go he was scoring the goals that got Boro promoted and banging them in for Blackburn in the early part of the season. For us he's scored when he's had actual time on the pitch, instead of carlos' "have 20 minutes".

Under Carlos last season, in games Rhodes played more than an hour for us he scored a goal ever 2 games, even with our injuries, defensive mindset and poor supply. That's just a straight up fact.

Under Jos he hardly played, barely 300 minutes from the 20th of January to the end of the season. Joao and Nuhiu were at it, so Rhodes couldn't get a start.

He's effective at this level, even when we've got half the first team out and aren't set up to suit him.

 

In a 343 he's probably not as effective as Nuhiu (assuming his form continues), and that's fair enough.
When you have 8 forwards on the books, chances are, no one will be the strongest in every system.

3 up top suits Joao, Nuhiu/Fletch and Nando.
However, we could even play a 343 variant where the width really come from the wingbacks (instead of wingbacks and wide forwards) and we deploy Nando in a the hole behind 2 strikers. There, Rhodes would flourish.

 

352, which we played for the majority under Jos, is another question. In that set up, along side Nuhiu or Fletch, Rhodes is probably the best player we have. There's a case for Hooper, but age, contract and injury record mean he's not someone we should be making plans around. A 2 isn't really dynamic enough to get the best from Joao, tho he's probably adequate if needed, and Nando's shown a bunch of times that he's not a good partner for anyone in a front 2.

 

We've said countless times we need a plan b, Jos has also said he wants to be able to go into games with different systems. So for me, we need to be able to play a front 3 and a front 2 with maximum effectiveness. To that end, we need to hang onto Rhodes, Nuhiu, Nando, Joao and probably Fletch. A fit Matias would be really good for keeping Nando and Joao at their best. So the guys who end up surplus are Hooper (who we should be looking to move anyway) and Winnall (who is hopefully on his way as soon as he's fit).

 

Rhodes is only 28, and has a 2 years left on his contract. We should be making the best of having him, driving his price back up at the very least. Selling him now in a cut price deal is pure folly and would be going back to running the club like a bunch of clowns. I think there's a section of Wednesday fans who have a problem with players who cost money. Reach got pelters for costing 4-5m, until he was used halfway sensibly and showed that he's actually a decent player. Rhodes hasn't actually had the chance to show that, he's been misused since day 1. Accepting that it's 2018 and some players cost money would help. But anyway, at worst we give up and loan him out to let him shine for someone else, then cash in once he's shown he's still got it. At best we get behind him, play him (because he will score goals) and those goals will carry us to the right end of the table.

 

Guru's persistence with this myth that football has been revolutionised in the last 2 years is just silly.

He seems to have made it up with the sole purpose of trying to convince people that Rhodes is a bad striker.

It's utterly ridiculous.

 

Different people have different opinions on whether a strikers role has changed.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/01/24/the-decline-of-the-18-yard-box-poacher-in-modern-football/

 

I'm not saying the author of this is necessarily right but he does use Rhodes as an example.

 

[pgmetcalf]

Give him the service and the goals will come 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, CrosbyKitchens said:

I'm not prepared to give up on Jordan Rhodes just yet. Fitness and confidence are vital to any player (look at Nuhiu). Rhodes could still get it back.

 

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong but I don't get this persistence with Rhodes that 'He'll come good' .Pity a fair few of our fanbase aren't like that with Nuhiu and Joao who have been far more productive and less costly. There are always the excuses in favour of Rhodes like  'His confidence is shot'  and 'give him the service and he will score loads'. The abundance of 'simple' chances he as missed, any other player especially Nuhiu would have been totally slaughtered on here. In fact quite a few still don't see Nuhiu as anything other than short term but happy to persist with Rhodes. Amazing. 

[agentwalker]

I know its only the warm up but every home game when I watch the shooting practice Rhodes is absolutely shocking. He's not suited to our game and lacks any real quality skill wise to be anything other than a poacher.  

[cookeh]

18 minutes ago, Hookowl said:

 

Different people have different opinions on whether a strikers role has changed.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/01/24/the-decline-of-the-18-yard-box-poacher-in-modern-football/

 

I'm not saying the author of this is necessarily right but he does use Rhodes as an example.

 

 

Good to have someone making an actual conversation of it, rather than just stating things blindly.

 

In the bottom half of the premier league, the quality has hugely dropped, i think that's fair to say. And the current fashion amoung those clubs it to defend for their lives and hoof it at a fast/powerful lone striker. Arnautovic at West Ham, Gray at Watford, Vardy and Ihenacho at Leicester, Gayle at Newcastle, Wilson at Bournemouth.. the list goes on. The bottom of the prem is full of it. Desperate not to lose and hoping to win. The condensed nature of the bottom half of the Prem would seem to be testament to this not really being a good idea. It's the football of fear, and results in a race to the bottom.

To the specific examples:
Hernandez. West Ham had a horrible injury crisis, similar to us. Most of their defense went down and so both Moyes and Bilic were forced to go ultra defensive. That limited Herandez's use as he's not a lone striker. The author mentions 'how to play Hernandez and Carroll'. Well that was as simple a conundrum as 'put them on the pitch at the same time'. I don't think they even one played up front as a front 2. Hernandez played wide a couple of times, a long way from the goal, much to the annoyance of Hammers fans. The injury crisis dragged West Ham into the mire, and they switched to that fearful game of 'hoof it up top'. Often playing 3 at the back and 3 defensive mids. Hoping for magic from Arni or Lanzini. West Ham fans want Hernandez to play. Part of the reason they ddn't want Moyes to stay was that he played that ultra defensive system.

 

Austin didn't play much because he was out for 15 games with a hamstring injury. So to say it's because of the type of player he is seems a bit silly. Pellegrino didn't seem to fancy him, Hughes did. Pellegrino got sacked, Hughes kept them up (admittedly by luck as much as judgement). They author mentions Shane Long who is a pretty quick 'hoof it at me i'll try and make trouble' type striker, but weirdly misses out that the 3rd player sharing time up top was Gabbiadini, who is much more of an Austin than a Long. Gabbiadini was singed for 17m, so I imagine there was a bit of 'play my player because my transfers have to look good'. Why was Gabbiadini signed you may ask? because Austin was out most of last season with a shoulder injury. So is Austin dropped because his style doesnt fit? or because he just can't play cos he's in the treatment room.. the answer seems pretty obvious given that he was in the treatment room.

 

He mentions Rhodes is a pretty disparaging way. Saying he struggled in the Prem because of the increased demands in terms of defensive work. I don't think thats an accusation that can actually be supported with evidence.
Rhodes only made 6 appearances for Boro in the Prem.

Two were less than 5 minutes.
One was 13 minutes when already 3-0 down to liverpool.
Half an hour against Spurs when 2-0 down.. Boro got a goal back, Rhodes drawing 2 men under the ball for Gibson to score.
68min in a 1-1 with West Ham. West Ham scored thru a crazy solo goal from Payet. Rhodes falut?
90 is a 0-1 loss to Southampton, where Boro had less that 40% possession and Rhodes can be seen regularly tracking back.

The better explanation for Rhodes not playing at Boro is... Alvaro Negredo. Again.. the most obvious answer..

 

Citing Drogba as "the benchmark" is fine.. but have we actually seen a single other player like Drogba? I don't think so. So if you want to hold an impossible standard that all strikers should be as good as probably the best lone striker the game has seen, then.. well.. yeah.. that's like.. your opinion, man.

 

In all, I'd agree, at the arse end of the premier league a lot of clubs have switched to systems with a lone striker.
Does that mean it's the best and/or only way to play? Of course not.

I think it's actually doing a lot of clubs more harm than good.

Aside from the obvious reason of having more bodies in defensive positions, there's also a money aspect to it, i imagine. The most expensive players are forwards. If you want one, that's a lot of money. If you want 2? you're crazy. We have 8. There's no reason not to use them.

Looking at the article, the examples it uses aren't particularly valid, they all have other, more obvious explanations than the proposition that goalscorers aren't useful any more.

 

Fact remains, when he played over an hour, Rhodes scored for us. Coming cold off the bench he missed some chances he probably shouldn't have.. and sadly that's what people tend to remember when you're having a crap season. But binning him now, instead of letting Jos get the best out of him seems like craziness to me. Under desperate circumstances, with a makeshift team behind them he got Joao and Nuhiu firing. With a summer to build and a solid team behind Rhodes.. I can't think of a reason he wouldn't be back to his scoring best.

 

[Yellowbelly]

1 hour ago, cookeh said:

 

That's silly on it's face. The world hasn't changed in 2 years, and 2 yearsa go he was scoring the goals that got Boro promoted and banging them in for Blackburn in the early part of the season. For us he's scored when he's had actual time on the pitch, instead of carlos' "have 20 minutes".

Under Carlos last season, in games Rhodes played more than an hour for us he scored a goal ever 2 games, even with our injuries, defensive mindset and poor supply. That's just a straight up fact.

Under Jos he hardly played, barely 300 minutes from the 20th of January to the end of the season. Joao and Nuhiu were at it, so Rhodes couldn't get a start.

He's effective at this level, even when we've got half the first team out and aren't set up to suit him.

 

In a 343 he's probably not as effective as Nuhiu (assuming his form continues), and that's fair enough.
When you have 8 forwards on the books, chances are, no one will be the strongest in every system.

3 up top suits Joao, Nuhiu/Fletch and Nando.
However, we could even play a 343 variant where the width really come from the wingbacks (instead of wingbacks and wide forwards) and we deploy Nando in a the hole behind 2 strikers. There, Rhodes would flourish.

 

352, which we played for the majority under Jos, is another question. In that set up, along side Nuhiu or Fletch, Rhodes is probably the best player we have. There's a case for Hooper, but age, contract and injury record mean he's not someone we should be making plans around. A 2 isn't really dynamic enough to get the best from Joao, tho he's probably adequate if needed, and Nando's shown a bunch of times that he's not a good partner for anyone in a front 2.

 

We've said countless times we need a plan b, Jos has also said he wants to be able to go into games with different systems. So for me, we need to be able to play a front 3 and a front 2 with maximum effectiveness. To that end, we need to hang onto Rhodes, Nuhiu, Nando, Joao and probably Fletch. A fit Matias would be really good for keeping Nando and Joao at their best. So the guys who end up surplus are Hooper (who we should be looking to move anyway) and Winnall (who is hopefully on his way as soon as he's fit).

 

Rhodes is only 28, and has a 2 years left on his contract. We should be making the best of having him, driving his price back up at the very least. Selling him now in a cut price deal is pure folly and would be going back to running the club like a bunch of clowns. I think there's a section of Wednesday fans who have a problem with players who cost money. Reach got pelters for costing 4-5m, until he was used halfway sensibly and showed that he's actually a decent player. Rhodes hasn't actually had the chance to show that, he's been misused since day 1. Accepting that it's 2018 and some players cost money would help. But anyway, at worst we give up and loan him out to let him shine for someone else, then cash in once he's shown he's still got it. At best we get behind him, play him (because he will score goals) and those goals will carry us to the right end of the table.

 

Guru's persistence with this myth that football has been revolutionised in the last 2 years is just silly.

He seems to have made it up with the sole purpose of trying to convince people that Rhodes is a bad striker.

It's utterly ridiculous.

This. Absolutely this.

 

Under Carlos he was playing in a defensive team with confidence at rock bottom under a manager who didn't want him.

 

Then for whatever reason since Jos came in he's not been picked. Fitness? Confidence shot?

 

in addition: if we sell him - we lose money

if we loan him out - we lose money

if we try to get him back scoring again we have a real asset.

[Quist]

9 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

Good to have someone making an actual conversation of it, rather than just stating things blindly.

 

In the bottom half of the premier league, the quality has hugely dropped, i think that's fair to say. And the current fashion amoung those clubs it to defend for their lives and hoof it at a fast/powerful lone striker. Arnautovic at West Ham, Gray at Watford, Vardy and Ihenacho at Leicester, Gayle at Newcastle, Wilson at Bournemouth.. the list goes on. The bottom of the prem is full of it. Desperate not to lose and hoping to win. The condensed nature of the bottom half of the Prem would seem to be testament to this not really being a good idea. It's the football of fear, and results in a race to the bottom.

To the specific examples:
Hernandez. West Ham had a horrible injury crisis, similar to us. Most of their defense went down and so both Moyes and Bilic were forced to go ultra defensive. That limited Herandez's use as he's not a lone striker. The author mentions 'how to play Hernandez and Carroll'. Well that was as simple a conundrum as 'put them on the pitch at the same time'. I don't think they even one played up front as a front 2. Hernandez played wide a couple of times, a long way from the goal, much to the annoyance of Hammers fans. The injury crisis dragged West Ham into the mire, and they switched to that fearful game of 'hoof it up top'. Often playing 3 at the back and 3 defensive mids. Hoping for magic from Arni or Lanzini. West Ham fans want Hernandez to play. Part of the reason they ddn't want Moyes to stay was that he played that ultra defensive system.

 

Austin didn't play much because he was out for 15 games with a hamstring injury. So to say it's because of the type of player he is seems a bit silly. Pellegrino didn't seem to fancy him, Hughes did. Pellegrino got sacked, Hughes kept them up (admittedly by luck as much as judgement). They author mentions Shane Long who is a pretty quick 'hoof it at me i'll try and make trouble' type striker, but weirdly misses out that the 3rd player sharing time up top was Gabbiadini, who is much more of an Austin than a Long. Gabbiadini was singed for 17m, so I imagine there was a bit of 'play my player because my transfers have to look good'. Why was Gabbiadini signed you may ask? because Austin was out most of last season with a shoulder injury. So is Austin dropped because his style doesnt fit? or because he just can't play cos he's in the treatment room.. the answer seems pretty obvious given that he was in the treatment room.

 

He mentions Rhodes is a pretty disparaging way. Saying he struggled in the Prem because of the increased demands in terms of defensive work. I don't think thats an accusation that can actually be supported with evidence.
Rhodes only made 6 appearances for Boro in the Prem.

Two were less than 5 minutes.
One was 13 minutes when already 3-0 down to liverpool.
Half an hour against Spurs when 2-0 down.. Boro got a goal back, Rhodes drawing 2 men under the ball for Gibson to score.
68min in a 1-1 with West Ham. West Ham scored thru a crazy solo goal from Payet. Rhodes falut?
90 is a 0-1 loss to Southampton, where Boro had less that 40% possession and Rhodes can be seen regularly tracking back.

The better explanation for Rhodes not playing at Boro is... Alvaro Negredo. Again.. the most obvious answer..

 

Citing Drogba as "the benchmark" is fine.. but have we actually seen a single other player like Drogba? I don't think so. So if you want to hold an impossible standard that all strikers should be as good as probably the best lone striker the game has seen, then.. well.. yeah.. that's like.. your opinion, man.

 

In all, I'd agree, at the arse end of the premier league a lot of clubs have switched to systems with a lone striker.
Does that mean it's the best and/or only way to play? Of course not.

I think it's actually doing a lot of clubs more harm than good.

Aside from the obvious reason of having more bodies in defensive positions, there's also a money aspect to it, i imagine. The most expensive players are forwards. If you want one, that's a lot of money. If you want 2? you're crazy. We have 8. There's no reason not to use them.

Looking at the article, the examples it uses aren't particularly valid, they all have other, more obvious explanations than the proposition that goalscorers aren't useful any more.

 

Fact remains, when he played over an hour, Rhodes scored for us. Coming cold off the bench he missed some chances he probably shouldn't have.. and sadly that's what people tend to remember when you're having a crap season. But binning him now, instead of letting Jos get the best out of him seems like craziness to me. Under desperate circumstances, with a makeshift team behind them he got Joao and Nuhiu firing. With a summer to build and a solid team behind Rhodes.. I can't think of a reason he wouldn't be back to his scoring best.

 

Game has moved on considerably, Playing a team that suits his style will not be a success. When Blackburn played this way and had many good players look where they finished in league. He is one of quite a feww errors we have made in transfer market. if he was that good we would have no difficulty selling him. His best option is Scotland.

[Quist]

9 minutes ago, Yellowbelly said:

This. Absolutely this.

 

Under Carlos he was playing in a defensive team with confidence at rock bottom under a manager who didn't want him.

 

Then for whatever reason since Jos came in he's not been picked. Fitness? Confidence shot?

 

in addition: if we sell him - we lose money

if we loan him out - we lose money

if we try to get him back scoring again we have a real asset.

We will lose money on him regardless best option is to cut our losses.

[Yellowbelly]

11 minutes ago, Quist said:

We will lose money on him regardless best option is to cut our losses.

We'll actually lose money on most, if not all of our players. Why is Rhodes being singled out specifically?

Despite everyone having total and unwavering faith in the abilities of Nuhiu & Joao they did the square root of f'call for the past 3 years until the last 3 months & yet some are not willing to extend that same opportunity to a proven player who has had a bad time of it recently but whose record suggests has the quality to be a potent goalscorer. We're all disappointed Rhodes hasn't up to now been the player we hoped he'd be for us but writing him off at this stage seems premature.

[DuttyTeabags]

2 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

That's silly on it's face. The world hasn't changed in 2 years, and 2 yearsa go he was scoring the goals that got Boro promoted and banging them in for Blackburn in the early part of the season. For us he's scored when he's had actual time on the pitch, instead of carlos' "have 20 minutes".

Under Carlos last season, in games Rhodes played more than an hour for us he scored a goal ever 2 games, even with our injuries, defensive mindset and poor supply. That's just a straight up fact.

Under Jos he hardly played, barely 300 minutes from the 20th of January to the end of the season. Joao and Nuhiu were at it, so Rhodes couldn't get a start.

He's effective at this level, even when we've got half the first team out and aren't set up to suit him.

 

In a 343 he's probably not as effective as Nuhiu (assuming his form continues), and that's fair enough.
When you have 8 forwards on the books, chances are, no one will be the strongest in every system.

3 up top suits Joao, Nuhiu/Fletch and Nando.
However, we could even play a 343 variant where the width really come from the wingbacks (instead of wingbacks and wide forwards) and we deploy Nando in a the hole behind 2 strikers. There, Rhodes would flourish.

 

352, which we played for the majority under Jos, is another question. In that set up, along side Nuhiu or Fletch, Rhodes is probably the best player we have. There's a case for Hooper, but age, contract and injury record mean he's not someone we should be making plans around. A 2 isn't really dynamic enough to get the best from Joao, tho he's probably adequate if needed, and Nando's shown a bunch of times that he's not a good partner for anyone in a front 2.

 

We've said countless times we need a plan b, Jos has also said he wants to be able to go into games with different systems. So for me, we need to be able to play a front 3 and a front 2 with maximum effectiveness. To that end, we need to hang onto Rhodes, Nuhiu, Nando, Joao and probably Fletch. A fit Matias would be really good for keeping Nando and Joao at their best. So the guys who end up surplus are Hooper (who we should be looking to move anyway) and Winnall (who is hopefully on his way as soon as he's fit).

 

Rhodes is only 28, and has a 2 years left on his contract. We should be making the best of having him, driving his price back up at the very least. Selling him now in a cut price deal is pure folly and would be going back to running the club like a bunch of clowns. I think there's a section of Wednesday fans who have a problem with players who cost money. Reach got pelters for costing 4-5m, until he was used halfway sensibly and showed that he's actually a decent player. Rhodes hasn't actually had the chance to show that, he's been misused since day 1. Accepting that it's 2018 and some players cost money would help. But anyway, at worst we give up and loan him out to let him shine for someone else, then cash in once he's shown he's still got it. At best we get behind him, play him (because he will score goals) and those goals will carry us to the right end of the table.

 

Guru's persistence with this myth that football has been revolutionised in the last 2 years is just silly.

He seems to have made it up with the sole purpose of trying to convince people that Rhodes is a bad striker.

It's utterly ridiculous.

You are delusional mate. He got Hudds promoted from League One when he was in his absolute pomp and even then mid paced.

 

Middlesborough? He had eff all to do with that played a sub role at best.

 

I never want to see another thread abour out record signing because it feels like half our fanbase have been given the same drugs as the ones who caused Hannibal Lecter mate to cut his own face off.

 

Yes, slicing my own nose off feels good. Oh there's blood running down my face. Now I'll slash my eyeballs out. Oh Jordan Rhodes he once scored 4 at Hillsborough he's Eric Cantona.

 

OMG

[np pontefract]

 

 

It seems like quite a few on Owlstalk, have to have someone to slate.

 

They can't  (at the present time) take a pop at Atdhe Nuhiu,  so Jordan Rhodes is now in their sights.

 

I understand the argument, that football has moved on and that Jordan Rhodes is no longer suited to the modern game.

 

But I totally disagree with it !

 

To sell or Loan out a player of his proven ability,  would be a very bad decision for our football club.

[gurujuan]

3 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

That's silly on it's face. The world hasn't changed in 2 years, and 2 yearsa go he was scoring the goals that got Boro promoted and banging them in for Blackburn in the early part of the season. For us he's scored when he's had actual time on the pitch, instead of carlos' "have 20 minutes".

Under Carlos last season, in games Rhodes played more than an hour for us he scored a goal ever 2 games, even with our injuries, defensive mindset and poor supply. That's just a straight up fact.

Under Jos he hardly played, barely 300 minutes from the 20th of January to the end of the season. Joao and Nuhiu were at it, so Rhodes couldn't get a start.

He's effective at this level, even when we've got half the first team out and aren't set up to suit him.

 

In a 343 he's probably not as effective as Nuhiu (assuming his form continues), and that's fair enough.
When you have 8 forwards on the books, chances are, no one will be the strongest in every system.

3 up top suits Joao, Nuhiu/Fletch and Nando.
However, we could even play a 343 variant where the width really come from the wingbacks (instead of wingbacks and wide forwards) and we deploy Nando in a the hole behind 2 strikers. There, Rhodes would flourish.

 

352, which we played for the majority under Jos, is another question. In that set up, along side Nuhiu or Fletch, Rhodes is probably the best player we have. There's a case for Hooper, but age, contract and injury record mean he's not someone we should be making plans around. A 2 isn't really dynamic enough to get the best from Joao, tho he's probably adequate if needed, and Nando's shown a bunch of times that he's not a good partner for anyone in a front 2.

 

We've said countless times we need a plan b, Jos has also said he wants to be able to go into games with different systems. So for me, we need to be able to play a front 3 and a front 2 with maximum effectiveness. To that end, we need to hang onto Rhodes, Nuhiu, Nando, Joao and probably Fletch. A fit Matias would be really good for keeping Nando and Joao at their best. So the guys who end up surplus are Hooper (who we should be looking to move anyway) and Winnall (who is hopefully on his way as soon as he's fit).

 

Rhodes is only 28, and has a 2 years left on his contract. We should be making the best of having him, driving his price back up at the very least. Selling him now in a cut price deal is pure folly and would be going back to running the club like a bunch of clowns. I think there's a section of Wednesday fans who have a problem with players who cost money. Reach got pelters for costing 4-5m, until he was used halfway sensibly and showed that he's actually a decent player. Rhodes hasn't actually had the chance to show that, he's been misused since day 1. Accepting that it's 2018 and some players cost money would help. But anyway, at worst we give up and loan him out to let him shine for someone else, then cash in once he's shown he's still got it. At best we get behind him, play him (because he will score goals) and those goals will carry us to the right end of the table.

 

Guru's persistence with this myth that football has been revolutionised in the last 2 years is just silly.

He seems to have made it up with the sole purpose of trying to convince people that Rhodes is a bad striker.

It's utterly ridiculous.

I appreciate your opinion, and that you’ve explained your reasoning, however, I can’t agree

The real “folly” was signing Rhodes in the first place Five years ago, yes maybe, but to lavish that sort of money, on that type of player, now, is akin to “a bunch of clowns” running the club In my opinion, anyway

[cookeh]

1 hour ago, DuttyTeabags said:

You are delusional mate. He got Hudds promoted from League One when he was in his absolute pomp and even then mid paced.

 

Middlesborough? He had eff all to do with that played a sub role at best.

 

I never want to see another thread abour out record signing because it feels like half our fanbase have been given the same drugs as the ones who caused Hannibal Lecter mate to cut his own face off.

 

Yes, slicing my own nose off feels good. Oh there's blood running down my face. Now I'll slash my eyeballs out. Oh Jordan Rhodes he once scored 4 at Hillsborough he's Eric Cantona.

 

OMG

 

Clearly a considers post on your part. 10/10 for that.

 

"mid paced" pace has never been his game, his game is finding space and manipulating his marker. He's very good at that, but in order for it to work you need to play balls into the space where the ball should be played.. i.e. when rhodes is running with his marker to the right, the ball should go to the left of them, not to feet, not ahead of him to the right.. to the left. This is what we're not very good at, bannan apart, our midfield (including reach) is not particularly good at playing the right pass.

 

"Middlesborough? He had eff all to do with that played a sub role at best."

In the last 11 games of the season he played over 70 minutes in 9 of them, spending one rested on the bench.

In his final 8 appearances he scored 5 goals and got 2 assist.

Those goals and assists got Boro 9 points that they wouldn't have got without them.

If you think 7 direct goal involvements in 8 games is 'eff all to do with' Boro getting the points they needed then.. ok.

 

As for the rest.. it makes about as much sense as the first half of your post.

 

[CrosbyKitchens]

3 hours ago, CLswfc said:

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong but I don't get this persistence with Rhodes that 'He'll come good' .Pity a fair few of our fanbase aren't like that with Nuhiu and Joao who have been far more productive and less costly. There are always the excuses in favour of Rhodes like  'His confidence is shot'  and 'give him the service and he will score loads'. The abundance of 'simple' chances he as missed, any other player especially Nuhiu would have been totally slaughtered on here. In fact quite a few still don't see Nuhiu as anything other than short term but happy to persist with Rhodes. Amazing. 

Maybe it's just my personality. I've been a fan of Nuhiu for a long time as well. He wasn't treated well for a long time but has come back and proven he's a footballer. 

 

Hopefully, Rhodes will do the same.

[cookeh]

9 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I appreciate your opinion, and that you’ve explained your reasoning, however, I can’t agree

The real “folly” was signing Rhodes in the first place Five years ago, yes maybe, but to lavish that sort of money, on that type of player, now, is akin to “a bunch of clowns” running the club In my opinion, anyway

 

We can talk about whether he was a sensible signing at the time. I'm certainly more variable on that.

But he's here.. that's the reality.

And with Joao and Hoopers contracts running out and Winnall seemingly destined to be on his way, we could soon be facing a real lack of an out and out goal scorer. If at the end of the coming season we're left with Feltch, Nando and Nuhiu as our only forwards, then we'll be straight back into the market for a player like Rhodes. So yeah.. While we maybe shouldnt have signed him at the moment we did.. to sell him now (especially at a significant loss) would be crazy.

[cookeh]

2 hours ago, Quist said:

Game has moved on considerably, Playing a team that suits his style will not be a success. When Blackburn played this way and had many good players look where they finished in league. He is one of quite a feww errors we have made in transfer market. if he was that good we would have no difficulty selling him. His best option is Scotland.

 

Which season was that?

The year they went down they had a really poor side, with an average age which was probably over 30, including a 36 year old wes brown.
Their strikers weren't the worst, but central midfield and central defense were pretty terrible. I don't rate Jason Steele as a keeper either.

Could also point to Mowbray not being a very good manager..

And that they were playing 442, not 352. They're very different beasts in the current 'formation meta'.

 

[Davidioso]

We have a history of buying players and then completely ignoring their strengths

 

Stevie May, Ryan Lowe, Jordan Rhodes and Francis Jeffers spring to mind.

 

Not sure what Jeffers' strengths acually were, but still.....you get my drift!

 

 

 

 

 

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, Davidioso said:

We have a history of buying players and then completely ignoring their strengths

 

Stevie May, Ryan Lowe, Jordan Rhodes and Francis Jeffers spring to mind.

 

Not sure what Jeffers' strengths acually were, but still.....you get my drift!

 

 

 

 

 

Wouldn’t include Ryan Lowe, he actually worked hard and was relatively successful