Rob Staton covering SWFC accounts and FFP on Radio Sheffield

[Triple O]

1 hour ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

We’d have been unable to operate at all without that £20m from Chansiri.

 

if Chansiri said he was putting in no more money do you think we could easily make £20m of savings?

Missed my point again that is not what I'm saying

[Bluesteel]

7 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

Minuscule? For the last set of viewable accounts (2016/17) the figures say otherwise. Villa’s wage to turnover ratio was roughly 83% for that season. High, but ours was 126%! Incredibly that was not the highest ratio in the Championship either!

 

Meaning Wednesday spent significantly more money on wages alone (and that’s before other expenses like Rhodes transfer etc for this season) than the club made throughout the whole season.

 

 

A few sales could address the position? Really? What assets could the club sell to make tens of millions of pounds if it was really needed?

 

In 2016/17 the club lost roughly £15m, who knows what the figures will be for last season. Wages will have risen, turnover likely won’t have risen by enough to cover that additional shortfall, and £10m+ was spent on van Aken and Rhodes.

 

Anyone that isn’t concerned by the clubs  potential financial position has their heads firmly buried in the sand. We need to hope Chansiri continues to cover any shortfalls because the figures aren’t sustainable 

 

Im burying my head nor suggesting we don’t need Chansiri as we are not sustainable but I think player sales could Bridge the FFP gap to get under the 39m threshold. It would be a shame to lose players but Lees, Bannan, FF, Reach could likely raise funds. Plus what we save/raise in releasing players and compensation for younger ones. It would be a huge set back though. 

 

On the figures we don’t know what the add backs were but we only had 8m leeway or based on accounts and the losses for the season before last were 20m. We’d peobbaly need to sell our best players, so it will be interesting to see if DC thinks it’s worth doing that now or accepting that the squad will break up at the end of next season. Neither sounds great.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Bluesteel

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

7 hours ago, Triple O said:

Missed my point again that is not what I'm saying

What is your point then?

 

You said our position is minuscule compared to Villa’s?

 

it really isn’t.  If Chansiri refuses or is unable to put any more money in our situation would be very grave indeed and like Villa we wouldn’t be able to meet our cash flow requirements.

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

7 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

 

Im burying my head nor suggesting we don’t need Chansiri as we are not sustainable but I think player sales could Bridge the FFP gap to get under the 39m threshold. It would be a shame to lose players but Lees, Bannan, FF, Reach could likely raise funds. Plus what we save/raise in releasing players and compensation for younger ones. It would be a huge set back though. 

 

On the figures we don’t know what the add backs were but we only had 8m leeway or based on accounts and the losses for the season before last were 20m. We’d peobbaly need to sell our best players, so it will be interesting to see if DC thinks it’s worth doing that now or accepting that the squad will break up at the end of next season. Neither sounds great.

If Chansiri stopped putting funds in FFP is not the problem.

 

Selling players to meet FFP requirements would not solve the problem.  How would we find the other losses?

 

We’d have to sell everybody we could, and even then how would we pay for the players that nobody wanted?

 

I just can see how we get rid of many of our players without subsidising their wages.

 

Van Aken was bought for millions (and presumably wages to match) and so far not lived up to the price tag.  

 

Abdi, Lee and Fletcher will be on big wages that nobody would pay until they prove their fitness.

 

Boyd and Jones? 

 

Matias?

 

Fox?

 

Nobody will take Winnall until he’s fit.

 

Due to their injuries last season we’d get nowhere near the true worth of Westwood, Lees, Bannan, Hooper and Forestieri.

 

We’d be in a right mess.

[Last_Great_Hope]

8 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

Minuscule? For the last set of viewable accounts (2016/17) the figures say otherwise. Villa’s wage to turnover ratio was roughly 83% for that season. High, but ours was 126%! Incredibly that was not the highest ratio in the Championship either!

 

Meaning Wednesday spent significantly more money on wages alone (and that’s before other expenses like Rhodes transfer etc for this season) than the club made throughout the whole season.

 

 

A few sales could address the position? Really? What assets could the club sell to make tens of millions of pounds if it was really needed?

 

In 2016/17 the club lost roughly £15m, who knows what the figures will be for last season. Wages will have risen, turnover likely won’t have risen by enough to cover that additional shortfall, and £10m+ was spent on van Aken and Rhodes.

 

Anyone that isn’t concerned by the clubs  potential financial position has their heads firmly buried in the sand. We need to hope Chansiri continues to cover any shortfalls because the figures aren’t sustainable 

 

Don't forget that Villa's turnover for 16/17 season includes £44m in parachute payments that year. They got £33m this season and only £15m next season. Expect their turnover to wages ration to be waaaay past ours this season.

[Semedo's ferret]

22 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

 

 

it really isn’t.  If Chansiri refuses or is unable to put any more money in our situation would be very grave indeed and like Villa we wouldn’t be able to meet our cash flow requirements.

I take your point, but the same could be said for the majority of championship or prem clubs.

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

7 minutes ago, Semedo's ferret said:

I take your point, but the same could be said for the majority of championship or prem clubs.

And that is my point.

 

Everybody is saying Villa’s situation is far removed from ours and other clubs, it isn’t.

 

Their owner is unable or unwilling to put in more cash, that is their issue.

 

One thing people seem to get confused with is FFP.  FFP is not Villa’s problem.

 

If they got a transfer embargo but still had cash they could simply keep the same squad and probably finish in the top 6 again.

 

The problem is they don’t have cash.  They can’t pay their tax bill, they won’t be able to pay their wage bill - they need to sell players for cash and quickly.

 

In the same scenario, we’d be in the same situation as would half the division.

[Bluesteel]

1 hour ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

If Chansiri stopped putting funds in FFP is not the problem.

 

Selling players to meet FFP requirements would not solve the problem.  How would we find the other losses?

 

We’d have to sell everybody we could, and even then how would we pay for the players that nobody wanted?

 

I just can see how we get rid of many of our players without subsidising their wages.

 

Van Aken was bought for millions (and presumably wages to match) and so far not lived up to the price tag.  

 

Abdi, Lee and Fletcher will be on big wages that nobody would pay until they prove their fitness.

 

Boyd and Jones? 

 

Matias?

 

Fox?

 

Nobody will take Winnall until he’s fit.

 

Due to their injuries last season we’d get nowhere near the true worth of Westwood, Lees, Bannan, Hooper and Forestieri.

 

We’d be in a right mess.

 

Thats not the point I am talking about though. Pretty much every club in this league would be screwed without some kind of financial backer. If we ran our club without one we’d be in league one.

 

As far as I am aware DC is staying here so yes the key issue for us is managing FFP

Edited June 8, 2018 by Bluesteel

[SiJ]

Basically, we'd be in the same doomsday scenario if Chansiri pulled the plug or was unable to gain access to funds.

 

That's pretty obvious and it makes me laugh seeing the usual doommongers bringing this up like it's a revelation. 

[SiJ]

17 hours ago, fred mciver said:

There's some crowing on here about Villa's financial plight - losing £6 million per month - so it may a good time to remember our finances.

 

Especially as we look forward to new signings and loans.

 

Last financial year, we lost £1.72 million per month.

 

However, we don't have Villa's saleable assets like Grealish who they are asking £30 million for.

 

And Conor H. must be worth £10 mill now.

Hey, it's fred McIver trying to scaremonger again.

 

Remember when you made up a,load of crap concerning the club not releasing it's accounts...and then a few hours later the club released its accounts. 

 

 

[southportdc]

IF OUR SOURCE OF FUNDING DISAPPEARED WE'D HAVE NO FUNDS!

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

On 01/03/2018 at 18:04, @owlstalk said:

Casting line up for next series of Sheffield’s Undateables.

Reyt slap head their Staton-more a fivehead than a forehead. Lol 

Edited June 8, 2018 by airborne_rat_of_s6

[SiJ]

29 minutes ago, southportdc said:

IF OUR SOURCE OF FUNDING DISAPPEARED WE'D HAVE NO FUNDS!

I just can't believe it. 

 

I always thought Wednesday were kept afloat by enthusiasm and good will. 

[@owlstalk]

30 minutes ago, southportdc said:

IF OUR SOURCE OF FUNDING DISAPPEARED WE'D HAVE NO FUNDS!

 

We'd get another one

We always do

Same as we always get a manager when some fans say 'yeah but if we sack Carlos who would we get? Nobody would come" etc

[southportdc]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

We'd get another one

We always do

Same as we always get a manager when some fans say 'yeah but if we sack Carlos who would we get? Nobody would come" etc

 

You just wait. When Chansiri removes his elaborate full-body mask and he's been Curtis Woodhouse all along and completely cuts us off, we're screwed.

 

[southportdc]

3 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I just can't believe it. 

 

I always thought Wednesday were kept afloat by enthusiasm and good will. 

 

No no no. The money keeps us afloat, but only in conjunction with enough worrying online.

 

If we sit back and enjoy it, the money will disappear. It's karmic money.

 

Villa had too much fun and signed Snodgrass, so their funds have vanished.

[thewookieisdown]

19 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

We'd get another one

We always do

Same as we always get a manager when some fans say 'yeah but if we sack Carlos who would we get? Nobody would come" etc

Well. Who knows. There is no reason at the moment to think the current owner is going to pull out.

 

Our previous owner was on balance good for the club but wasn't willing to speculate - for reasons I respect. The best case scenario was doing just what it took to stay up.

 

Our owners before that were not conspicuously successful.

 

I am not sure it's true, therefore, that "we always do"

[Buxtongent]

It's ridiculous comparing Villa's current position with ours. The two comparison points should be Villa now and Sheff. Wed on the arrival of the seemingly long forgotten Milan Mandaric. We were knocking at the door of the court, with an unpaid bill from HMRC! That is the position that Villa are now in.

FFP simply means a club suffering transfer restrictions, relegation, or points deductions. It does not involve 'winding up', which means CLOSING. FIFA can be negotiated with. Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs CANNOT. If you owe the Tax man he is relentless.Any negotiation about your position must be done through third parties, who can then take control of your club. 

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

11 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

Minuscule? For the last set of viewable accounts (2016/17) the figures say otherwise. Villa’s wage to turnover ratio was roughly 83% for that season. High, but ours was 126%! Incredibly that was not the highest ratio in the Championship either!

 

Meaning Wednesday spent significantly more money on wages alone (and that’s before other expenses like Rhodes transfer etc for this season) than the club made throughout the whole season.

 

 

A few sales could address the position? Really? What assets could the club sell to make tens of millions of pounds if it was really needed?

 

In 2016/17 the club lost roughly £15m, who knows what the figures will be for last season. Wages will have risen, turnover likely won’t have risen by enough to cover that additional shortfall, and £10m+ was spent on van Aken and Rhodes.

 

Anyone that isn’t concerned by the clubs  potential financial position has their heads firmly buried in the sand. We need to hope Chansiri continues to cover any shortfalls because the figures aren’t sustainable 

 

Thing is though mate, it's the same for most of the Premier League and Football League - if you don't rely on owners funding the business. then you're heading down the league, and fast. It's all about having the right sort of owner, and I think we do - not sure Villa do.

 

We have the luxury of having a lot of big earners entering the final year of their contract, so we have some real room for maneuver in 12 months time. Also, the sale of Forestieri should more than cover the bills for 12 months if it was really necessary. Villa, losing £6m a month - who could they realistically sell to cover that £72m over the course of a year?

 

Looking at the whole picture, we've been reckless with one signing - Jordan Rhodes. He's an expensive luxury that hasn't (yet) worked out. Compare that to Villa and the actions they've taken since relegation - blows our decision to buy Rhodes out the water. You mention the wage to turnover ratios - I'm guessing the massive parachute money for Villa makes theirs look better than it is - and that parachute money is dwindling away, and it's not something we have the luxury of having. Certainly distorts the wage to turnover ratios of both clubs.

 

I'm certainly not happy about a reliance on Mr Chansiri to pay the bills, but that's football these days.

[SiJ]

Villas issues go way beyond FFP. 

 

They have major cash flow problems. Not paying tax bills etc. 

 

Of course, if Chansiri pulls the plug, then we'd be up a creek without a paddle, but then the same could be said for most clubs outside the Prem. 

 

That doesn't make it right or mean everything is going swimmingly at Wednesday, but, for now, there is no doomsday scenario.