Three to Four more wins

[fredmciverslovechild]

But you can also look at several games over the season where we have been a little fortunate to get points. Wolves at home we were totally outplayed but scraped a point; Birmingham and Blackburn at home....how many times did Brum hit the woodwork? So these things even themselves out, generally, over the season.

 

What has done us is the fine margins Carlos has gone for; and in a game like Hudds where it's winner takes all it's a dangerous one. I'm pretty much convinced that Carlos didn't think we'd concede in either game so all we needed to do was nick one somewhere so for the whole of Sunday and the first 70 minutes or so on Wednesday it was going to plan. But one substitution, a little hesitancy in defence and an unlucky in-off and you're buggered. Again fine margins which this time told against us.

[NorthernOwl]

1 hour ago, ChapOwl79 said:

Such fine margins in this league, where could those wins come from? Fulham at home on final day is a different game if a win means something (even that team we played may have got something 11v11), penalty scored at Brighton to put us 2-1 up, Derby away with handball on line. I'm sure others can think of more, like I said, fine margins!

 

On balance I think we won a lot more points by a fine margin than we lost. 

[i used to be sc_owl]

1 hour ago, Tamworthowl said:

We need a good start (so get the manager and transfers sorted pronto) and no distractions like Forestieri-gate.

 

One of the cliches on this forum is the "we've only played x games"

 

You're bang on the money that we need a good start. We need our major transfers to be done well before the first game of the season. 

[Owls2k]

23 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Yep. 

 

We had two, three opportunities to kick on this season and challenge for automatic and came up short every time. 

 

It's strange as the players showed how mentally tough they can be by going on a 6 game winning streak, which at any level is pretty impressive...

 

But then you could see some of that mental fragility come back in the play offs. 

 

We didn't play with any real confidence or great attacking intent. Instead we were hoping to get a goal and sneak through. I think that in turn gave Huddersfield confidence. They'd been on a so-so run prior to the play offs, but then we rocked up at their place and asked no questions of them, aside from showing up their inability to score goals. Fast forward to Wednesday and we take the lead...but instead of going for the jugular we opted to defend again. I honestly think if we'd have turned the screw at that point we'd have likely got the second and wrapped the tie up. 

 

Joys of hindsight...

 

The worst thing about the Brighton match was the actual players who bottled it. 

 

Forestieri - Missed a terrible pen (fair enough) but then missed the rebound which was an absolute sitter. 

Fletch - This guy has premier league experience and lost it

Hutch - Often touted as our big time player, and he lost it as well. 

 

 

[Claudio Tankisco]

One word to get those extra points needed.  CREATIVITY.

 

Were good but we need to do much better with this next season.

[the third man]

56 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Yep. 

 

We had two, three opportunities to kick on this season and challenge for automatic and came up short every time. 

 

It's strange as the players showed how mentally tough they can be by going on a 6 game winning streak, which at any level is pretty impressive...

 

But then you could see some of that mental fragility come back in the play offs. 

 

We didn't play with any real confidence or great attacking intent. Instead we were hoping to get a goal and sneak through. I think that in turn gave Huddersfield confidence. They'd been on a so-so run prior to the play offs, but then we rocked up at their place and asked no questions of them, aside from showing up their inability to score goals. Fast forward to Wednesday and we take the lead...but instead of going for the jugular we opted to defend again. I honestly think if we'd have turned the screw at that point we'd have likely got the second and wrapped the tie up. 

 

Joys of hindsight...

 

this mental fragility you talk about, it wasn't the players but how the players were told to play, the six match run coincided with Hutch being out.

 

because of that we played with two wingers and  one centre half and therefore got forward

 

as soon as Hutch is back in the team we have one winger, and three centre halves with Bannan on the wing leaving just Lee in the centre of midfield.

 

the match at Brighton was lost because the players must have told to defend the 1 - 0 lead, even though Brighton had 10 men

 

how you can blame this on the mental fragility of the players I don't know

[Roy Of The Roasters]

52 minutes ago, fredmciverslovechild said:

But you can also look at several games over the season where we have been a little fortunate to get points. Wolves at home we were totally outplayed but scraped a point; Birmingham and Blackburn at home....how many times did Brum hit the woodwork?

 

Not forgetting injury time goals away at Preston and at home to Rovrum.

 

I'm not convinced a 'tweak' is going to do it. Yes, we need a few new players, but on the whole the squad is good quality. I'm just not convinced we know how to get the best out of them and turn a bunch of talented players into a cohesive team that's more than the sum of it's parts. In particular, the number of goals we score is shocking considering the firepower at our disposal; to unlock that potential is going to require a change in the way we play.

[Philb125]

So many posts saying we don't know how to win, do well, easier said than done... I think we're letting the defeat get to us. 

 

Look ok at the last 25 games of the season. Which includes us sacrafising 3 points in final game. 

 

 

[aeroswfc]

We might need less next season. 

[Flat Owl]

2 hours ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

Fair enough, but I think you greatly underestimate the duration of the negative impact that FF's distraction caused.

 

Moot point and I don't have that insight to know what the impact was.

However since the first international break last year after Bannan & FF arrived and Westwood returned in place of Wildsmith we achieved 1.74 points per game until the end of the season.

 

This season the side has achieved an average 1.76 points per game.

 

Still a decent finish but not a sufficient return for a radical change in style and not the return needed to bridge the play off positions & autos.

 

Also we have not done particularly well when David Jones played.  Not so much the player but perhaps the defensive mentality has cost us.

 

In essence we have been successful with Hooper in the side and not playing with such a defensive mindset that leave you exposed to the inevitable [and characteristic of the championship] onslaught by teams losing in the last 15 minutes.

 

We have been less mobile and not been the slick passing side of last season, opting for longer hit and hope balls that rarely stick.

Chances have been limited and it has been glaring the way we have not tested or worked the keeper in the way we did last year.

 

IMO this season CC has tried another way but with mixed results.  It has almost been a season of finding his best team and trying to use a physical presence up front rather than leaving this as a last 15 ploy as he did last year, and as folk have said, shoehorning players in without success.  He then resorted to last seasons side + Fletcher.  Its been a season of changes and in the main, unsuccessful ones.

 

Perhaps it is this season we need to put down to experience and CC needs to go back to who he is and his philosophy and evolve something that wasn't broke in the first place in time for us to come out of the blocks as hungry, lean and mean as possible?

[Tamworthowl]

All good points, but just to illustrate my point about the FF effect...

 

You'll remember during the international break in November that Carlos made a statement along the lines of "we've got Forestieri back". Clearly something happened or was said during that break. First game after, at Fulham, Forestieri had one of his best games of the season, and the team clicked too.

 

Pre international break, 16 games, 24 points, 1.5 ppg.

After international break, 30 games, 57 points, 1.9 ppg.

 

 

[Flat Owl]

23 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

All good points, but just to illustrate my point about the FF effect...

 

You'll remember during the international break in November that Carlos made a statement along the lines of "we've got Forestieri back". Clearly something happened or was said during that break. First game after, at Fulham, Forestieri had one of his best games of the season, and the team clicked too.

 

Pre international break, 16 games, 24 points, 1.5 ppg.

After international break, 30 games, 57 points, 1.9 ppg.

 

 

You might be right TO.

 

Just to stir it up further perhaps FF foresaw that he would be stifled in this new style and his skills / speed would be needed in a more defensive role.... 

 

That Fulham game though is a case in point....winning by a slim margin and then conceding late on.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Flat Owl

[Tamworthowl]

7 minutes ago, Flat Owl said:

You might be right TO.

 

Just to stir it up further perhaps FF foresaw that he would be stifled in this new style and his skills / speed would be needed in a more defensive role.... 

 

That Fulham game though is a case in point....winning by a slim margin and then conceding late on.

 

It also showed, although few realised at the time, how important Hooper is. When he went off injured, the game changed.

[Guest The Horse]

As others have said, we need to get our house in order ready for the first game.

No messing about until the end of September for transfers and hit the start of the season hard.

Need to be within three points of the top two going into October then kick on. 

Look to kill games off when leading instead of sitting back. 

And no excuses of three games in a week. Get them fit this summer.

[Greenhgate Owl]

with Carlos in charge there's no chance us getting in the automatic places

 

we need a manager with balls

[StudentOwl]

6 hours ago, Gresh said:

Someone who is good at stats can probably confirm it but I think we won more games with Loovens in the side than when he wasn't in the side.

I'll have to confirm when I'm back home, but I know for a fact that before the final 8 games of the season, we actually had been doing better with Sasso in the squad than when Loovens was in it. Maybe the final good run changed that fact, as I say I'll let y'all know when I have the time!