Sacking Garry Monk cost us our Championship status

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, markowl said:

So basically you're saying you're going to change your mind constantly to suit your argument.

 

Reyt.

Not at all. 
 

What a weird way of looking at it.

 

So by your logic we should never change our opinions or reflect on our views over time? 
 

I’ve made it clear that I thought Monk was by no means fantastic. But since then we’ve sacked one manager, given it the coach for a couple of months, paid six figures for a new manager - yet are in a worse position than when we sacked Monk in the first place.

Key difference is - I don’t have the responsibility to make these decisions. The club do. 

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, markowl said:

You're right.

 

I don't take you seriously.

And I don’t give a poo what you think. 
 

See it’s a good system.

 

 

[SiJ]

[SiJ]

Tbf, I'm pretty sure at the start of the season I was saying Windass would be a half decent season and could get us 10 to 15 goals. 

 

Now I call him a thick tw@t. 

[markowl]

2 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

And I don’t give a poo what you think. 
 

See it’s a good system.

 

 

No doubt you'll be posting on here in a few months saying you've changed your mind and you realise you do give a poo.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by markowl

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, SiJ said:

Tbf, I'm pretty sure at the start of the season I was saying Windass would be a half decent season and could get us 10 to 15 goals. 

 

Now I call him a thick tw@t. 

Exactly.

 

Most people on here said our summer recruitment was good. Now the same people say they’re the worst players they’ve ever seen play for us.

 

I wish we all had the knowledge and foresight of @markowl - we would all be taken very seriously then. 

[grumpy grandad]

13 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

There I said it. And I was Monk’s biggest critic. 
 

I’m not saying we would be comfortable but we wouldn’t be this cut adrift I’m sure of it. We backed him in the summer with a number of signings and we let him bring in his own backroom staff. Then as soon as a few bad results happened - we hit the panic button and sacked him.

 

 

Reality is this squad is not very good. The chairman has put us in two situations during the past two transfer windows. An embargo which meant we were scrapping around for free transfers under Bruce. And a points deduction which means nobody of any quality wanted to join the inevitable slog for survival. The result? An absolute mess of a squad which is simply not up to it. 

 

Monk was probably our best chance of surviving it purely based on the fact we recruited for his formation and he had a whole pre season to work with the players. This season we needed stability. Instead we’ve had four different managers and the players look completely confused and bereft of any confidence at this stage.
 

The chairman has absolutely destroyed us this season with the points deduction, chopping and changing managers and not paying the players on time. A perfect storm for an absolute shambles of a season.

 

sorry but not sacking him early enough is the cause

[markowl]

Just now, SallyCinnamon said:

Exactly.

 

Most people on here said our summer recruitment was good. Now the same people say they’re the worst players they’ve ever seen play for us.

 

I wish we all had the knowledge and foresight of @markowl - we would all be taken very seriously then. 

Glad you agree.

 

Didn't take as long as I thought 

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, grumpy grandad said:

sorry but not sacking him early enough is the cause

Agreed. I think we should have sacked him last season. 
 

But we recruited for his formation and let him bring in his own coaching team - only to sack him a few months later.

 

I think looking back now at how everything that’s gone on... it was probably worth just sticking with him rather than going through three different managers and paying them off. Where has that got us? 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Exactly.

 

Most people on here said our summer recruitment was good. Now the same people say they’re the worst players they’ve ever seen play for us.

 

I wish we all had the knowledge and foresight of @markowl - we would all be taken very seriously then. 

 

Most people said the summer recruitment was decent but that we had missed the main problems that needed to be addressed - a focal point up front and a left-back. Not rocket science and it has transpired that those glaringly obvious omissions have cost us big points. No matter who the manager was, Monk, Pulis, Thompson, More, they would have stood a better chance of making us more competitive if we had those 2 positions covered. 

 

Windass - meh, didn't really want us to sign him but as it turns out he has probably been the most effective of our summer signings, which doesn't say much for the others.

Brown - looked promising after a decent season at Luton and got off to a great start. His fitness levels must be woeful as no manager has given him a run in the side.

Dele Bashiru - didn't really expect much from him, expected him to be on the fringes this season but considering how poor we have been, he should have been able to play more.

Kachunga - looked an OK option but the concern was he was't the focal point or natural striker we needed

Dunkley - Huge concern over his fitness, pleasantly surprised to see him play before Christmas, no surprise to see he hasn't been able to maintain fitness this season.

Flint - Looked a good option - Cardiff have certainly benefited from having him in the side.

Paterson - Did pretty well for Cardiff and a fair few of their fans seemed disappointed to see him go, looked like a decent addition 

Marriott - as with Kachunga, not really the type of attacking player we needed.

 

Given we were on minus 12 at the time I don't think many were expecting a great summer transfer window and were happy to get a few new faces with a mix of good experience and youth. As it turns out the approach never addressed the weaknesses in the side properly. 

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Agreed. I think we should have sacked him last season. 
 

But we recruited for his formation and let him bring in his own coaching team - only to sack him a few months later.

 

I think looking back now at how everything that’s gone on... it was probably worth just sticking with him rather than going through three different managers and paying them off. Where has that got us? 

 

Did we though?

Any small success he has had in management has been based on having a focal point up top - Chris Wood, Jutkeiwicz, Fletcher first half of last season with us. Failure to address this glaring issue has left every manager hampered and to play a wing-back formation without any decent left-footed mobile defender hasn't helped either. 

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Most people said the summer recruitment was decent but that we had missed the main problems that needed to be addressed - a focal point up front and a left-back. Not rocket science and it has transpired that those glaringly obvious omissions have cost us big points. No matter who the manager was, Monk, Pulis, Thompson, More, they would have stood a better chance of making us more competitive if we had those 2 positions covered. 

 

Windass - meh, didn't really want us to sign him but as it turns out he has probably been the most effective of our summer signings, which doesn't say much for the others.

Brown - looked promising after a decent season at Luton and got off to a great start. His fitness levels must be woeful as no manager has given him a run in the side.

Dele Bashiru - didn't really expect much from him, expected him to be on the fringes this season but considering how poor we have been, he should have been able to play more.

Kachunga - looked an OK option but the concern was he was't the focal point or natural striker we needed

Dunkley - Huge concern over his fitness, pleasantly surprised to see him play before Christmas, no surprise to see he hasn't been able to maintain fitness this season.

Flint - Looked a good option - Cardiff have certainly benefited from having him in the side.

Paterson - Did pretty well for Cardiff and a fair few of their fans seemed disappointed to see him go, looked like a decent addition 

Marriott - as with Kachunga, not really the type of attacking player we needed.

 

Given we were on minus 12 at the time I don't think many were expecting a great summer transfer window and were happy to get a few new faces with a mix of good experience and youth. As it turns out the approach never addressed the weaknesses in the side properly. 

 

Don’t disagree with any of that. 
 

I thought we recruited well in the circumstances - that’s the caveat. But it’s clear now why the likes of Kachunga, Windass, Brown, Paterson weren’t wanted by fellow Championship clubs.

 

Zohore was clearly Monk’s main target for a striker. For whatever reason we didn’t get it over the line and we panicked and signed Marriott instead. 
 

In my opinion Zohore has the qualities we lack. Ok he’s not a complete target man - but he has size, a bit of guile and is an out and out centre forward. He’d definitely have improved us. For whatever reason we couldn’t get him over the line. Granted he’s hardly pulled up any trees for Milwall but he has the qualities we lack

My question is - why did we go from Zohore not signing to Jack Marriott who is a completely different striker who offers none of the qualities Zohore did.

 

Pulis alluded to this. Just pish poor recruitment. 

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Did we though?

Any small success he has had in management has been based on having a focal point up top - Chris Wood, Jutkeiwicz, Fletcher first half of last season with us. Failure to address this glaring issue has left every manager hampered and to play a wing-back formation without any decent left-footed mobile defender hasn't helped either. 

See my point on Zohore. I think it was clear Monk wanted him to play the ‘target man’ role. But the recruitment team let him down by not signing him. Then we panicked on deadline day and signed Marriott. 
 

We didn’t sign a left back and I think that reflected Monk’s plan to play with wing backs. We had Odubajo, Palmer, Harris, Reach, Penney as options and I don’t think Monk saw that position as a priority. 
 

Opened us up to massive problems though when we sacked him and it became clear we needed one. Which makes it absolutely farcical we didn’t bring on in during the January window.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

See my point on Zohore. I think it was clear Monk wanted him to play the ‘target man’ role. But the recruitment team let him down by not signing him. Then we panicked on deadline day and signed Marriott. 
 

We didn’t sign a left back and I think that reflected Monk’s plan to play with wing backs. We had Odubajo, Palmer, Harris, Reach, Penney as options and I don’t think Monk saw that position as a priority. 
 

Opened us up to massive problems though when we sacked him and it became clear we needed one. Which makes it absolutely farcical we didn’t bring on in during the January window.

 

Zohore has started 8 league games this season - another strange choice to be hanging our hat on. The recruitment has been ineffective but he contributed to that, even if we had signed Zohore he would have been left with no back up to him. Nuhiu would have been a better option but Monk clearly didn't want to keep him. Instead he started making bizarre claims like Adam Reach being an effective central forward. 

 

 

Monk also not thinking we needed a left-footed wing-back for his formation was another huge error, none of the players you list do a wing-back job effectively, other than perhaps Moses on the right but he has never showed his previous form since moving to us. 

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Zohore has started 8 league games this season - another strange choice to be hanging our hat on. The recruitment has been ineffective but he contributed to that, even if we had signed Zohore he would have been left with no back up to him. Nuhiu would have been a better option but Monk clearly didn't want to keep him. Instead he started making bizarre claims like Adam Reach being an effective central forward. 

 

 

Monk also not thinking we needed a left-footed wing-back for his formation was another huge error, none of the players you list do a wing-back job effectively, other than perhaps Moses on the right but he has never showed his previous form since moving to us. 

I heard that Nuhiu wanted to move on rather than the club not wanting him.

 

Yes agree with Zohore. He’s been poor for Milwall but he fits the bill for the type of striker we needed. So I think it’s fair to say Monk realised this issue with the squad. It’s up to the recruitment team to find the player - and well they’ve left a lot to be desired for every manager since DC took over. 
 

Still think Reach would make a good LWB if he was bothered. Played a lot of games for Carlos at left back and didn’t look particularly weak. 

[Guest Hornsby]

Sacking Roeder and Gray for Paxo started it off.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I heard that Nuhiu wanted to move on rather than the club not wanting him.

 

Yes agree with Zohore. He’s been poor for Milwall but he fits the bill for the type of striker we needed. So I think it’s fair to say Monk realised this issue with the squad. It’s up to the recruitment team to find the player - and well they’ve left a lot to be desired for every manager since DC took over. 
 

Still think Reach would make a good LWB if he was bothered. Played a lot of games for Carlos at left back and didn’t look particularly weak. 

 

Where did you hear that from? Nuhiu stated he loved the club and didn't move on until very late in the summer. Any motive he had for leaving probably came from Monk preferring to use a half-fit Wickham and Da Cruz ahead of him at the end of last season. 
 

Reach has proved to be useless in that role but I could understand the thinking that he may be an option in that position - however Monk clearly had other ideas for him so wasn't really an option at that time. 

[Owlsend]

You can blame all the managers we've had but the truth is it was the 11 on the pitch that cost us our championship status

[Pulcinella]

I can see the point about sacking Monk, but have an issue with this:

 

Monk wouldn't play Westwood and didn't want Hutchinson back. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall so I could've understood the reasoning behind it.

 

I'm more confident when Westwood is on the squad sheet at the moment. It saddens me greatly that both Dawson & Wildsmith have 'become' more error-prone - and it might be down to confidence.

[83owl]

3 minutes ago, Pulcinella said:

I can see the point about sacking Monk, but have an issue with this:

 

Monk wouldn't play Westwood and didn't want Hutchinson back. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall so I could've understood the reasoning behind it.

 

I'm more confident when Westwood is on the squad sheet at the moment. It saddens me greatly that both Dawson & Wildsmith have 'become' more error-prone - and it might be down to confidence.

Westwood and Hutchinson have been back in the squad for over 3 months now. We’re still crap, in fact we’re worse than we’ve ever been.