We're losing £1.5m a month – the club’s latest accounts explained

[Nero]

2 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

To be fair the Aston Villa and Blunts ratio's were heavily increased by promotion bonus payments. Whilst they would still have been high, they weren't what was reported in the Daily Mail (shock,horror).

Good point. 

I think Reading must be looking at FFP breach if they dont go up.

[Nero]

2 minutes ago, cbirks said:

 

Unfortunately I'm trying to point out exactly the opposite. 

 

There is absolutely no reason any sale would have to have Hillsborough included. Hillsborough is no longer the property of SWFC - SWFC are even paying rent on it. There is no link between SWFC and Hillsborough amymore other than DC being a part of the two entirely legally separate owning bodies, which is legally a coincidence at best. 

 

Do Sheffield Wednesday also own DC's share in his dad's tuna empire, because DC owns both? No they don't, and I'm afraid the connection SWFC has to Hillsborough is now akin to its connection to Chansiri tunam

 

Selling Hillsborough to himself to cover up the gross mismanagement of the club is grim I agree. But the reason why any sale by Chansiri would have to have Hillsborough included is because without it the value of the club is massively diminished and only a fool would buy a football club and leave the ground with the former owner. Although there are plenty of fools around perhaps I agree.

 

He also fully owns both entities unlike your analogy of the TUG group where he has a minor share of a publicly listed company so cant sell it.

 

He can and probably will sell both club and ground together if he wants a decent price from a buyer at any time in the future.

[cbirks]

11 minutes ago, The Wall said:

 

In fairness, he's spent and lost more on the club than the grounds is worth.

 

 

And yet he's removed from the club the one thing thats value does no not depreciate - indeed, only continues to rise - despite any amount of losses: Hillsborough, the club's bricks and mortar. 

[Guest Hornsby]

3 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Not if we shed wages, recruit some exciting new talent we can sell later, get promoted back to the Championship, improve our revenue off the pitch by overhauling the products sold in the megastore, in the ground etc and attract back exec box holders, advertisers and sponsors 

2030.

[cbirks]

Just now, Nero said:

 

Selling Hillsborough to himself to cover up the gross mismanagement of the club is grim I agree. But the reason why any sale by Chansiri would have to have Hillsborough included is because without it the value of the club is massively diminished and only a fool would buy a football club and leave the ground with the former owner. Although there are plenty of fools around perhaps I agree.

 

He also fully owns both entities unlike your analogy of the TUG group where he has a minor share of a publicly listed company so cant sell it.

 

He can and probably will sell both club and ground together if he wants a decent price from a buyer at any time in the future.

 

So I 100% hope that you're correct, I really really do.

 

However, that would entirely rely on the benevolence of DC, as it goes against all of my experience of working for private enterprise particularly those that get involved in property.

 

On the note of fools, sometimes you don't need a fool. We've seen owners sell clubs to holding companies to use it to drain the club of debts owed. 

 

Again, I really really hope you're correct and that I'm wrong.

[Guest Mcguigan]

24 minutes ago, Nero said:

Good point. 

I think Reading must be looking at FFP breach if they dont go up.

Must be very close.

 

I reckon they were just within the upper limits for 16/17, 17/18, 18/19 but 16/17 was a £5m profit year. So if they post any losses in 19/20, which seems inevitable, they must have breached the limits and by quite a lot as well.

[poite]

So basically the person who is destroying every inch of the club is also the person in which our existence hangs on.

 

Seems perfectly healthy doesn't it.

 

[Bluesteel]

20 minutes ago, Nero said:

 

Selling Hillsborough to himself to cover up the gross mismanagement of the club is grim I agree. But the reason why any sale by Chansiri would have to have Hillsborough included is because without it the value of the club is massively diminished and only a fool would buy a football club and leave the ground with the former owner. Although there are plenty of fools around perhaps I agree.

 

He also fully owns both entities unlike your analogy of the TUG group where he has a minor share of a publicly listed company so cant sell it.

 

He can and probably will sell both club and ground together if he wants a decent price from a buyer at any time in the future.

It happened across the city and at Leeds I think. But yes you’d hope any buyer worth their salt would be switched onto this otherwise you’re not really buying much at all.

[Guest mrbluesky]

3 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Not if we shed wages, recruit some exciting new talent we can sell later, get promoted back to the Championship, improve our revenue off the pitch by overhauling the products sold in the megastore, in the ground etc and attract back exec box holders, advertisers and sponsors 

So, basically what you are saying is we need a new owner?

[Tommy Crawshaw]

34 minutes ago, cbirks said:

 

Unfortunately I'm trying to point out exactly the opposite. 

 

There is absolutely no reason any sale would have to have Hillsborough included. Hillsborough is no longer the property of SWFC - SWFC are even paying rent on it. There is no link between SWFC and Hillsborough amymore other than DC being a part of the two entirely legally separate owning bodies, which is legally a coincidence at best. 

 

Do Sheffield Wednesday also own DC's share in his dad's tuna empire, because DC owns both? No they don't, and I'm afraid the connection SWFC has to Hillsborough is now akin to its connection to Chansiri tunam

 

No Hillsborough doesn't have to bee included in the sale. But there would be few takers if any who would buy the club without the stadium.

 

Even if there was the value of the club would be very little without a ground.

 

If Chansiri was serious about cutting his losses and selling he would have to include Hillsborough. 

 

The ownership of the stadium can easily be transferred back to SWFC.

 

[cbirks]

1 hour ago, cbirks said:

Yep, paying rent on the stadium.

 

I know this is the axe I keep grinding, but hopefully now we can put to bed the notion on here that selling Hillsborough was just an profitability workaround. Hopefully it's a wake up call to the more than 50% of us that didn't think the ground sale wasn't an issue. 

 

We have no home. We have no property. We are a loss-making enterprise without any tangible assets. 

 

Someone buying SWFC will not save us. Favourably getting Hillsborough off 'Sheffield 3' is the only way to save us, else 'Sheffield 3' will bleed us dry or just turf us out for a property development. 

 

Correction: I think it was 48% that didn't think the stadium sale was a problem. 

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, Mcguigan said:

You keep posting this and it's still wrong.

It is reset with restrictions. but we won't get punished twice in the same three year period.  Because we won't be allowed to fall out of line. But I don't think all the previous years losses count towards the new three year period. 

So what I am saying is say we were down 40m on the previous two years we wouldn't have to post a profit on this year to not fall fowl again as the three year period is reset from that point of view. 

[shezzas left peg]

3 hours ago, Sultan_Pepper said:

We are, but only if we keep our outgoings so high. Stop paying stupid wages to failures and we'll be fine

Simply put we need a football man in charge of finances. 

Didn't Milan get us down to only losing just under a couple of million a season??? 

Even factoring inflation in if you can get costs down to a reasonable level say £4/5 million, you should hopefully with clever recruitment and player  sales off set this loss like many of the smaller clubs in the championship do. 

[Guest Mcguigan]

25 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

It is reset with restrictions. but we won't get punished twice in the same three year period.  Because we won't be allowed to fall out of line. But I don't think all the previous years losses count towards the new three year period. 

So what I am saying is say we were down 40m on the previous two years we wouldn't have to post a profit on this year to not fall fowl again as the three year period is reset from that point of view. 

The 3 year period never resets and the financial results from All the 3 seasons in that rolling period are counted.

 

Check out the disciplinary reports from both ourselves and BCFC. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Therealrealist]

1 hour ago, poite said:

So basically the person who is destroying every inch of the club is also the person in which our existence hangs on.

 

Seems perfectly healthy doesn't it.

 

Yep..and we are supposed to be gratefull

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Nero said:

Good point. 

I think Reading must be looking at FFP breach if they dont go up.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1262273604944908288.html

 

Reading will have definitely blown FFP and points deductions when 19/20 accounts are in. They are being taken for 1.5m in payments to directors too.

 

The whole Championship is totally totally fkd through parachute payments and the appalling Ffp rules.

[Guest mrbluesky]

Losing hope has to be the highest cost.

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

2 hours ago, Mcguigan said:

Basically, after the points deduction, they were given two options.

 

Carry on as you are and incur another points deduction due to breaking P&S limits again or agree and adhere to a strict business plan and a number of financial objectives which would display to the EFL that they were actively reducing their losses. This meant player sales, stadium sale and restrictions on who they could sign and what they could pay in wages. Basically they were under soft sanctions.

 

As you point out, 2019 was down to only £8m down from £37m the season before, so they stuck to the plan but they were also instructed to keep reducing losses the season after (19/20) which they also did. The 2020 accounts will more than likely show a profit due to the Jude Bellingham sale. 

Fair point but it's not an automatic points deduction for breaching in the following years then. 

 

Think the reset thing was part of the previous ffp rules prior to the current system. 

 

Don't think any club will get any sanctions for 3 years to 2020 or 2021 with covid effect.

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

25 minutes ago, Nero said:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1262273604944908288.html

 

Reading will have definitely blown FFP and points deductions when 19/20 accounts are in. They are being taken for 1.5m in payments to directors too.

 

The whole Championship is totally totally fkd through parachute payments and the appalling Ffp rules.

Think the 19/20 and 20/21 years are being assessed together as an average due to covid so they may escape sanctions by selling likes of João in summer

[Guest Hornsby]

2 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

No Hillsborough doesn't have to bee included in the sale. But there would be few takers if any who would buy the club without the stadium.

 

Even if there was the value of the club would be very little without a ground.

 

If Chansiri was serious about cutting his losses and selling he would have to include Hillsborough. 

 

The ownership of the stadium can easily be transferred back to SWFC.

 

No it can't.

 

By law, Sheffield 3 newco has to do best for itself.

 

A sale for much less than recent £60 million purchase price would have DTI investigators looking at Chansiri's fiduciary duties.

 

£22 .5 million , if listed as a Community asset by Council.  Why we should support Trust's application. 

 

Would also destroy Sheffield 3.