Why James Beattie didn’t come with Garry Monk

[Jim]

10 hours ago, TrickyTrev said:

The situation at United was completely different when Wilder took over to the one Lowe would be inheriting at Hillsborough.

 

United weren’t struggling with FFP.

 

They weren’t on the brink of a possible points deduction.

They weren’t stumbling from embargo to embargo.

 

They didn’t have a dressing room full of players on tens of thousands a week who weren’t performing.

 

They didn’t have the likes of Paxio (or whatever his name is) interfering with transfers.

 

They didn’t have half their squad out of contract the following Summer, requiring what could be a complete rebuild.

Ryan Lowe may well go on to be a successful manager but if he were to take on the Wednesday job right now, I’ve no doubt you’d be calling for his head by Christmas too and we then go back to square one.

 

I wouldn’t TBH as I think like yourself we have to stick with somebody for a period of time. I know you’re going to turn round and say why not stick with Monk? Why, because of the car crash that has happened here, happened elsewhere at other clubs he’s managed.

 

Lowe has got respect for the way he plays the game from some of footballs top personalities, notably Klopp. You think Monk could get someone on Loan from Liverpool. I bet the only manager who stands any chance of this here is Lowe?

 

You talk about FFP, transfer embargoes, points deductions. Didn’t Lowe manage Bury with these type of problems hovering in the background? He still got them promoted to League 1. Also we’re going to have to play the youngsters here soon, are we not? Aren’t Hunt, Waldock and Shaw, lifelong fans of the club? They will have watched Lowe here has a player

in a successful side. They’ll want to play for him.

 

But let’s stick with Monk eh.?

Edited May 18, 2020 by Great Big Galaa

[FroggattOwls]

10 hours ago, TrickyTrev said:

The situation at United was completely different when Wilder took over to the one Lowe would be inheriting at Hillsborough.

 

United weren’t struggling with FFP.

 

They weren’t on the brink of a possible points deduction.

They weren’t stumbling from embargo to embargo.

 

They didn’t have a dressing room full of players on tens of thousands a week who weren’t performing.

 

They didn’t have the likes of Paxio (or whatever his name is) interfering with transfers.

 

They didn’t have half their squad out of contract the following Summer, requiring what could be a complete rebuild.

Ryan Lowe may well go on to be a successful manager but if he were to take on the Wednesday job right now, I’ve no doubt you’d be calling for his head by Christmas too and we then go back to square one.

united have had a massive ownership issue, they were under an secret transfer embargo, kept out of the local press. They had to take loans from the bin laden family to survive.... kept out of the press at the time. 
 

Wilder has performed miracles if it wasn’t for him they would be in league one still. United were bloody lucky. 
 

The Stars reporting or lack of reporting of critical United issues whilst critical of all things swfc has been an utter disgrace. 

[Sergeant Tibbs]

29 minutes ago, nbupperthongowl said:

I think monk is a holding manager, brought in when it was clear that bullen wasn't up to the job.... available, experienced, cheapish, ex player etc. So ticked some boxes for the fans

 

Unfortunately in the place of a thought out strategy to move us forward, the apparently absent owner, January window and beattie not joining only goes to support the theory

 

Got a feeling that our signings this summer we be a number of one year contracts without an eye on the future

I confess to not understanding or knowing at all what turned a tight nit into a team that clearly have no heart. I saw a team in the FA cup game against City that were organised defensively. (I know City weren’t at their fluent best)
 

Perhaps Monk has been instructed, as it seems Lukuhay was, to clear out the high earners. But it makes little sense to fix what wasn’t broken. The team has been in the play off positions from the first game.

 

I really can’t see any manager / coach taking us upwards with this owner and back room staff. Are the players trying ? I don’t see enough games to know, but results suggest they’re not.
 

And I’m pretty sure any decent manager would give us a swerve these days. Perhaps Hughton knew more than he was letting on.

[the third man]

21 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I confess to not understanding or knowing at all what turned a tight nit into a team that clearly have no heart. I saw a team in the FA cup game against City that were organised defensively. (I know City weren’t at their fluent best)
 

Perhaps Monk has been instructed, as it seems Lukuhay was, to clear out the high earners. But it makes little sense to fix what wasn’t broken. The team has been in the play off positions from the first game.

 

I really can’t see any manager / coach taking us upwards with this owner and back room staff. Are the players trying ? I don’t see enough games to know, but results suggest they’re not.
 

And I’m pretty sure any decent manager would give us a swerve these days. Perhaps Hughton knew more than he was letting on.

Clearing the high earners isn't leaving them sat at home on full pay

 

if they couldn't be used by Monk and Jos, why could Bullen and Bruce use them

[Sergeant Tibbs]

48 minutes ago, the third man said:

Clearing the high earners isn't leaving them sat at home on full pay

 

if they couldn't be used by Monk and Jos, why could Bullen and Bruce use them

I agree with the rationale. So why aren’t they in the squad. Is it something else. 
Is the tail still trying to wag the dog  ?

[the third man]

47 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I agree with the rationale. So why aren’t they in the squad. Is it something else. 
Is the tail still trying to wag the dog  ?

Or do we another manager who cant handle players with opinions

[FroggattOwls]

Some managers want all players to be the same, adhering to the same rules etc. Other managers allow for more personalised approach, treating players as individuals and respecting their talents. 
 

But it’s interesting that the managers which seem to have a stricter set of rules about squads seemed to fall foul of the same SWFC players, but others who respected their talent allowed them in the team. 
 

It’s complex.

[FroggattOwls]

Bullen brought Westwood, and Hutchinson back no issues, Jos and Monk both fell foul of them. 
 

Bruce seems to handle them well. 
 

There quite clearly isn’t contract issues with the players. 

[Sergeant Tibbs]

Just now, the third man said:

Or do we another manager who cant handle players with opinions

I’m assuming you mean can handle.

If it’s just questions, the simple answer is yes.

And when we (DC + SWFC recruitment team) find him, how do we convince him to work for us. What have we got to offer ?

 

[@owlstalk]

6 minutes ago, FroggattOwls said:

Bullen brought Westwood, and Hutchinson back no issues, Jos and Monk both fell foul of them. 
 

Bruce seems to handle them well. 
 

There quite clearly isn’t contract issues with the players. 

I can't work out how you've reached that conclusion from your above points though?

[Sergeant Tibbs]

46 minutes ago, FroggattOwls said:

Bullen brought Westwood, and Hutchinson back no issues, Jos and Monk both fell foul of them. 
 

Bruce seems to handle them well. 
 

There quite clearly isn’t contract issues with the players. 

Bruce isn’t here any more and I doubt he’s coming back. 
 

We need to move on.

[wmb]

For me there isn't the structure in place at the club for any manager to be successful. Personally I think our club would benefit from having a DOF/Technical director. Someone to be the go between with DC and GM. Someone who can do a root and branch exercise on the club and design a set of fundamentals for the club to follow. Although I'm not convinced Monk is the man to take us forward however I do feel for him in some respects. Let's be honest he's inherited a bit of a sh*t show. There are clearly issues with Hutchinson and Westwood and either their influence in the dressing room or their attitude in general. Bruce may have thought sod it I need them i'll put up with their crap if it gets me the results I need in the short term. Then there is the whole FFP issue and all of the uncertainty that brings with it. Add to that and we still have a very unbalanced and bloated squad although there is light at the end of the tunnel with that as a lot of players will be leaving the club this summer. 

[the third man]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I’m assuming you mean can handle.

If it’s just questions, the simple answer is yes.

And when we (DC + SWFC recruitment team) find him, how do we convince him to work for us. What have we got to offer ?

 

No I mean monk cant handle players with opinions as Jos couldnt

[Sergeant Tibbs]

40 minutes ago, the third man said:

No I mean monk cant handle players with opinions as Jos couldnt

Ok, I get it. 
Same outcome - we need to find the perfect man for a very difficult job.

[daleblue]

On 17/05/2020 at 15:38, Burnsie said:

well, thats how contracts work, dont they? you sign up for a 2 year phone contract, 5 year player contract, you cant just say "here's my 4 weeks notice, I'm off"

 

I think you can, there may be a clause in contract agreement about how you can leave, in any job no employer can keep you employed if you dont want it to continue, 

this is all about money and how much Beatie would lose or have to pay back if he terminates.

Edited May 18, 2020 by daleblue

[the third man]

48 minutes ago, daleblue said:

 

I think you can, there may be a clause in contract agreement about how you can leave, in any job no employer can keep you employed if you dont want it to continue, 

this is all about money and how much Beatie would lose or have to pay back if he terminates.

And does he want a long holiday on full pay, or work for the same money?

[Owls-Fan]

8 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

I wouldn’t TBH as I think like yourself we have to stick with somebody for a period of time. I know you’re going to turn round and say why not stick with Monk? Why, because of the car crash that has happened here, happened elsewhere at other clubs he’s managed.

 

Lowe has got respect for the way he plays the game from some of footballs top personalities, notably Klopp. You think Monk could get someone on Loan from Liverpool. I bet the only manager who stands any chance of this here is Lowe?

 

You talk about FFP, transfer embargoes, points deductions. Didn’t Lowe manage Bury with these type of problems hovering in the background? He still got them promoted to League 1. Also we’re going to have to play the youngsters here soon, are we not? Aren’t Hunt, Waldock and Shaw, lifelong fans of the club? They will have watched Lowe here has a player

in a successful side. They’ll want to play for him.

 

But let’s stick with Monk eh.?

Agree with what you’re saying here.

As onlookers we can only go by our gut feelings about these things, and my feeling is Lowe would provide more togetherness at Wednesday than Monk can (fans & players). The fact we will only have half a squad for next season makes it a perfect situation for someone like Lowe to take over at that time. At Bury they had no squad and he brought in 11 new players on free transfers and got them promoted. Which is some achievement. 
 

Of course for every Wilder there is a Hurst or Nathan Jones. But you won’t know until you take that punt. And frankly whoever you appoint, experienced or not is a gamble.  Just because we hire Warnock doesn’t mean he will be more successful at Wednesday than Monk or Lowe. 
 

Anyway, I’m sure Chansiri and Monk will still be in charge next season sadly, I just hope we don’t look at people like Lowe rising through the managerial ladder and say, that could have been us. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Owls-Fan

[@owlstalk]

 

 

I'm torn here as I'm both astonished people would see Lowe as a realistic sensible way to go as it's basically a total exact mirror of Danny Wilson, but at the same time totally not surprised as he's a former Sheffield Wednesday player so our fans are obviously going to look no further when talking about a managers job at Wednesday

 

 

 

[Jim]

12 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said:

Agree with what you’re saying here.

As onlookers we can only go by our gut feelings about these things, and my feeling is Lowe would provide more togetherness at Wednesday than Monk can (fans & players). The fact we will only have half a squad for next season makes it a perfect situation for someone like Lowe to take over at that time. At Bury they had no squad and he brought in 11 new players on free transfers and got them promoted. Which is some achievement. 
 

Of course for every Wilder there is a Hurst or Nathan Jones. But you won’t know until you take that punt. And frankly whoever you appoint, experienced or not is a gamble.  Just because we hire Warnock doesn’t mean he will be more successful at Wednesday than Monk or Lowe. 
 

Anyway, I’m sure Chansiri and Monk will still be in charge next season sadly, I just hope we don’t look at people like Lowe rising through the managerial ladder and say, that could have been us. 

 

Monk’s finished here. There’s a increasingly agitated group of fans that want him out and as much as Chansiri may want to stick with him, the lack of support for Monk and dwindling interest in Wednesday which will show financially at some stage in the future means he’ll have no choice but to make the change.

[Jim]

12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

I'm torn here as I'm both astonished people would see Lowe as a realistic sensible way to go as it's basically a total exact mirror of Danny Wilson, but at the same time totally not surprised as he's a former Sheffield Wednesday player so our fans are obviously going to look no further when talking about a managers job at Wednesday

 

 

 

 

Wilson apart from doing a sterling job on Friday Night Dinner as jim’s sidekick has one promotion and one relegation on his cv when we appointed him. That relegation alone should’ve stopped him

getting the job here. Lowe in two seasons as a manager has potentially 2 promotions on his cv with 2 different clubs. Different kettle of fish to Wilson.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Great Big Galaa