“We should be beating teams like Sheffield Wednesday”

[AndersonOWL]

On 03/11/2019 at 00:29, shezzas left peg said:

As much as I have a soft spot for some players, sometimes you have to be realistic if you want to move forwards then you have to to throw sentimentality out of the window. 

We've a couple of do or die players that would fit itnto a top two side on attitude and mentality. The rest aren't say up to it, too happy to coast along and see what happens rather than take a game by the scruff and say right we're winning this come what may. 

 

I agree, westwood hutch lees bannan wasn't good enough four years ago to do it

[Hack-Abusi]

On 03/11/2019 at 00:29, shezzas left peg said:

As much as I have a soft spot for some players, sometimes you have to be realistic if you want to move forwards then you have to to throw sentimentality out of the window. 

We've a couple of do or die players that would fit itnto a top two side on attitude and mentality. The rest aren't say up to it, too happy to coast along and see what happens rather than take a game by the scruff and say right we're winning this come what may. 

 

Indeed .. many have called it for years now .. even the likes of Bannan aren't protected by the cull .. we've needed a big shake up for years now, the old guard is getting older and its the same old mentality thats been instilled for number of years now ...

 

 

[Rogers]

On 04/11/2019 at 07:07, Mus said:

 

Players who have had their time and should now go:

 

Westwood, Reach,Lees, Forestieri, Rhodes (don't get me started on that one), Winnall.

 

Get some new blood in.

Westwood pulled off a world class save to get us a point versus Leeds and generally plays to a high level of consistency 

[Fast Forward]

On 3 November 2019 at 01:03, RoyCroppersHair said:

But they should...cos we’re bang average, yet we should be beating teams like Blackburn, cos they’re bang average, this league is horrendous, everyone is poo

 

Is it still possible to be average, or do we have to be bang average now?

 

Bang average causes me more stress than I need at the moment.

 

 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, AndersonOWL said:

I agree, westwood hutch lees bannan wasn't good enough four years ago to do it

 

Westwood, Hutch, Bannan and Lees formed the backbone of a team that got us into the top 6 twice. It was and has been the players around them that haven't been good enough. We had Hunt/Palmer at right-back and Pudil at left-back in those seasons, they have been replaced by inferior players. Loovens was not properly replaced, hopefully Borner can continue his form along with Iorfa in this respect. 

Most promotion challenging teams have a clinical goal scorer, Fletcher is excellent at what he does but won't get 20 a season. When we lost the play-off final, the consensus was that a towering CB, a combative & dynamic midfielder and a goalscorer were what was really needed, we instead wasted so much money and got none of these while key players in other positions aged and moved on.

[Guest ka58]

Central Midfield and up front is where it’s needed the most.

 

need goals from centre mid and different options up front cos every striker we have is a target man with no pace.

 

 

[83owl]

9 hours ago, 2roland2 said:

so you didn’t go then I take it or watch the match? His positioning is based on where the ball came from and as I said before he shouldn’t be scrambling back because iorfa shouldn’t be getting beat so easily for the Blackburn player to be able to get a free header. 
im a huge iorfa fan but he was to blame not Westwood but once again I see you haven’t mentioned his fizz up once......

No I didn’t go, I’m away with work but I wasn’t at the 1970 World Cup either and I can judge from a video that Gordon banks save was a good one.

 

Iorfa got beat in the air, yes but if you expect our CBs to win every single header during a game then you’re going to be disappointed. Especially late on when they start pushing theirs up as well. 

 

Fact is is where the header took place is not a clear goalscoring opportunity from a header, especially from a straight ball floated in from the halfway line. Watch Westwood from the moment the balls kicked, he’s not scrambling back at all, he wanders out to the edge of the 6 yard box and then just stays there.  Had Dawson done that people would be going mad saying he doesn’t command his area but because it’s Westwood it’s ok.

[83owl]

First of all I’m not going Nat poo crazy. Just pointing out westwood is at fault for another goal just like he was at millwall and against Fulham. Seems strange that he made loads of other top class saves to keep us in the game but they aren’t shown on a 10 minute clip of a game most people seem to agree was devoid of action or attacking intent from both teams.

 

You say Iorfa should be winning that ball because of his height yet the Blackburn defender is actually taller than him. And apparently every defender should win every header? If that’s the case then why do we bother playing fletcher upfront to play long balls to, its certainly not because of his scoring record. And if every defender should win every header then why didn’t we create 10 headed chances from the 10 corners we had in the first half? 

 

Just look at the picture, he’s stood inline with the near post and 5 yards out, even blunkett can see it’s not the right position and the fact that he got lobbed proves it. He started in the 6 yard line to give himself less ground to make up should he decide to come and clear the ball, however once he decided not to he just got caught ball watching. Just because it’s your hero Westwood you don’t have to cry about it.

[dorian gray]

On 03/11/2019 at 10:05, Animis said:

 

I expect many of the old guard players whose contracts are up in June fully expect that this is their last season whether we are in the PL or more likely, in the Championship next season.

 

I therefore, would expect them to give everything until May to a) make themselves attractive to a new club, particularly if we end up in the play offs, and b) get what is presumably a decent promotion bonus.

 

The last 7 mins of the game yesterday is all to predictable for these players over the last 4/5 years. We need them to take responsibility on the pitch and press the opposition until the final whistle - seems to me we gradually retreat to the edge of our box allowing fairly average teams to dominate possession where we at our most vulnerable and, which is risky - Cardiff and now Blackburn are clear examples of this.

ageing side tiring near end of games?

we have a squad, but how many in that squad cannot be relied upon to give an 'effective' performance at this level?

[dorian gray]

On 04/11/2019 at 07:11, 83owl said:

Having never played in goals I can’t say I’m an expert on positioning. It doesn’t take an expert however to point out that this isn’t the right one.

I've not seen the goals from the w/e, in fact this still shot is the first I've seen of anything.

before i'd read any of the postings, and as soon as I looked at it, I figured the keeper was a yard and a half too far forward.

[83owl]

44 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

your basing you entire knowledge on a games highlight reel of 3 mins or less. 
 

sorry but you can’t take anything you say serious...... Especially when you don’t think iorfa was at fault..... i mentioned nothing about his height at all, his positioning and ball watching allowed the Blackburn player to get the jump on him 

 

let’s leave it at that, I can’t discuss a players performance with someone who watched the highlight reel of 3 mins, that would be madness

 

This is cut from an earlier reply 

 

“you admit you don’t know anything about goalkeeping yet defending iorfa for not winning a ball which was bread and butter for a defender his hight”

 

I know you spelt it wrong but I presume you mean how tall he is.

 

And the highlights are 10 minutes.

Edited November 5, 2019 by 83owl

[83owl]

59 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

I've not seen the goals from the w/e, in fact this still shot is the first I've seen of anything.

before i'd read any of the postings, and as soon as I looked at it, I figured the keeper was a yard and a half too far forward.

Pretty sure you can guess correctly where the ball went.

[83owl]

44 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

I have already told you it was t anything to do with his height, it was a long lofted ball i to the box which he had plenty of time to position himself to not let a player get a jump on him. 
but yet you are pulling Westwood apart for that.....

 

 10 mins wow I apologise you certainly have the remit to judge the performance then. 

So you’ve gone from saying that ball should be bread and butter for  a defender his height to now saying it’s nothing to do with his height? Which is it?

 

 

[cognacbarnowl]

9 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

read the rest of the comment, the height was in relation to him not getting outjumped because he’s small...... but unless you can’t read I think you are being obtuse and intentionally missing out the rest of my sentence which explains why he was at fault......

but you already know that, and INstead of berating iorfa who was actually at fault for misjudging the slowest drifts cross in the world you are continuing to berate Westwood because it fits in with your argument..... even though you didn’t watch the game......

I mean even if you didn’t watch the game, even the commentator says another fantastic save by westwood again keeping us in the game, yet you still call him for costing us the game  incredible really 
 

anyway , this really is the last response to you on this because clearly you haven’t a clue. Have a nice evening David 

 

 

Jeez TRT, I do love it when you go on one of your rants buddy. I was going to bring round a sponge cake tonight if you had the kettle on, but the Mrs burnt the bloody cake, again !! Mighta been my fault cos she said she wanted some peace and quiet while she was baking ; So I took the battery out of the bloody smoke alarm, FFS  

[OWLERTON GHOST]

39 minutes ago, cognacbarnowl said:

 

 

Jeez TRT, I do love it when you go on one of your rants buddy. I was going to bring round a sponge cake tonight if you had the kettle on, but the Mrs burnt the bloody cake, again !! Mighta been my fault cos she said she wanted some peace and quiet while she was baking ; So I took the battery out of the bloody smoke alarm, FFS  

If only it was that easy ...

[83owl]

1 hour ago, 2roland2 said:

read the rest of the comment, the height was in relation to him not getting outjumped because he’s small...... but unless you can’t read I think you are being obtuse and intentionally missing out the rest of my sentence which explains why he was at fault......

but you already know that, and INstead of berating iorfa who was actually at fault for misjudging the slowest drifts cross in the world you are continuing to berate Westwood because it fits in with your argument..... even though you didn’t watch the game......

I mean even if you didn’t watch the game, even the commentator says another fantastic save by westwood again keeping us in the game, yet you still call him for costing us the game  incredible really 
 

anyway , this really is the last response to you on this because clearly you haven’t a clue. Have a nice evening David 

So he got outjumped because he was in the wrong position? So why bring his height into it at all then? 

 

youre right about bout one thing it was the slowest drift cross in the world, which makes Westwood’s decision to just stand around on the edge of his 6 yard box and leave a completely empty net even more frustrating.

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

On 03/11/2019 at 10:05, Animis said:

 

I expect many of the old guard players whose contracts are up in June fully expect that this is their last season whether we are in the PL or more likely, in the Championship next season.

 

I therefore, would expect them to give everything until May to a) make themselves attractive to a new club, particularly if we end up in the play offs, and b) get what is presumably a decent promotion bonus.

 

The last 7 mins of the game yesterday is all to predictable for these players over the last 4/5 years. We need them to take responsibility on the pitch and press the opposition until the final whistle - seems to me we gradually retreat to the edge of our box allowing fairly average teams to dominate possession where we at our most vulnerable and, which is risky - Cardiff and now Blackburn are clear examples of this.

Problem is, as fans we don’t know if the players retreat and lump it long of their own accord or under instructions from the manager. I suspect the latter because I don’t recall those tactics before Monk arrived

[AndersonOWL]

On 04/11/2019 at 22:16, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Westwood, Hutch, Bannan and Lees formed the backbone of a team that got us into the top 6 twice. It was and has been the players around them that haven't been good enough. We had Hunt/Palmer at right-back and Pudil at left-back in those seasons, they have been replaced by inferior players. Loovens was not properly replaced, hopefully Borner can continue his form along with Iorfa in this respect. 

Most promotion challenging teams have a clinical goal scorer, Fletcher is excellent at what he does but won't get 20 a season. When we lost the play-off final, the consensus was that a towering CB, a combative & dynamic midfielder and a goalscorer were what was really needed, we instead wasted so much money and got none of these while key players in other positions aged and moved on.

[dorian gray]

22 hours ago, 2roland2 said:

then I suggest you watch where the ball came from, he wasn’t out of position at all. 
iorfa also had plenty of time to read where the ball was coming and yet only one person and me have noticed that, or chose not to ignore it, Westwood along with Hutchinson and reach are this sites favourite boo boys atm. And when it comes from people who are commenting like 83 owl who didn’t even see the game it’s a bit odd

i'm not looking back to see who posted the piccy, as that bears no meaning whatsoever to me.

it was 'me' who stated not only I didn't see the game, but I hadn't seen any action or piccies before this.

a colleague told me 'it was a long range header from the edge of the box, that had gone over westwood into the net.

I drew the conclusion that the action had taken place 'more centrally' around the D, but when I saw the picture, well.

 

westwood has been a fantastic keeper for us, but this season he's 'slipped' a little in his performances and at times judgement calls, this is one of them, he is just a tad too far advanced towards the action, he has to be for a header from that point to get into the net.

it's not about knocking players (though I do feel at present reach is 'perhaps' not a monk type [only time will tell]) I don't hear anyone call hutch other than for his disciplinary record.

some on here are going to have to bite the bullet, cos if we ain't promoted this term (and it will be a hell of an achievement if we are) then a nigh on complete rebuild will be needed from the side left by gray and added to by carvalhal, and that will mean a clear out of a significant number of favourites.

[dorian gray]

On 04/11/2019 at 21:57, Rogers said:

 

Westwood pulled off a world class save to get us a point versus Leeds and generally plays to a high level of consistency 

it's his ****ing job,

(one for the older fan here) I once saw gary sprake pull off a cracking save against arsenal.

it's no use pulling off cracking saves every game, and then dropping a b*llock.

we've had a thread, or even threads running for some time now discussing dawson's reliability, he is without doubt a fantastic shot stopper, but isn't the best we've had under a cross.

IF we have to allow westwood a 'clanger' or two here and there, do we not allow dawson to struggle under a cross in games?

I imagine next season if neither improve, we'll need a keeper.