TheEnchanter Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Don't want it to turn into a self pity thread however I was trying to work out which teams have managed promotion to the Prem during the time that we have been out of it. It's hugely frustrating to see this list. 57 opportunities to get promoted in 19 years. 32 different teams have achieved it. Since 2000 Number of Promotions to the top flight. Norwich City 4 West Brom 4 Birmingham City 3 Burnley 3 Hull City 3 Wolves 3 Cardiff City 2 Crystal Palace 2 Fulham 2 Leicester 2 Newcastle Utd 2 QPR 2 Reading 2 Sheff Utd 2 Sunderland 2 Watford 2 West Ham 2 Aston Villa 1 Blackburn 1 Blackpool 1 Bolton 1 Bournemouth 1 Brighton 1 Derby 1 Huddersfield 1 Man City 1 Middlesbrough 1 Portsmouth 1 Southampton 1 Stoke City 1 Swansea City 1 Wigan Ath 1 What miracles have to occur for us to finally do it? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest addedtime Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I'm certainly no expert, but I think it needs 2nd place or higher. Or a play off final win. Either should sort it I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 An end to the rules or relaxing of profit and sustainability in the EFL would be a start. Plus scrapping parachute payments to the failed Premier wanna be's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky belly Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) Makes for pretty depressing reading that. Some very small toilet clubs making it to the big time Edited May 30, 2019 by Sticky belly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 Just now, marshy said: An end to the rules or relaxing of profit and sustainability in the EFL would be a start. Plus scrapping parachute payments to the failed Premier wanna be's Someone calculated that the average league finish for relegated teams from the Prem was around 12th-9th. Shows parachute payments don't necessarily have a direct 'promotion winning' effect though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: Someone calculated that the average league finish for relegated teams from the Prem was around 12th-9th. Shows parachute payments don't necessarily have a direct 'promotion winning' effect though. Possibly not, but I bet it bloody helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sticky belly said: Makes for pretty depressing reading that. Some very small toilet clubs making it to the big time Glad I could depress everyone. Hopefully it serves as motivation for Bruce, he'll be hailed a king if he manages it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 A coherent recruitment strategy, effective tactics, and strong coaching should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 It takes an average of 2 points a game or betting tin pot teams in the play offs, sadly we've done neither over recent years. However this season is our season and Bruce is the man to take us up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: Don't want it to turn into a self pity thread however I was trying to work out which teams have managed promotion to the Prem during the time that we have been out of it. It's hugely frustrating to see this list. 57 opportunities to get promoted in 19 years. 32 different teams have achieved it. Since 2000 Number of Promotions to the top flight. Norwich City 4 West Brom 4 Birmingham City 3 Burnley 3 Hull City 3 Wolves 3 Cardiff City 2 Crystal Palace 2 Fulham 2 Leicester 2 Newcastle Utd 2 QPR 2 Reading 2 Sheff Utd 2 Sunderland 2 Watford 2 West Ham 2 Aston Villa 1 Blackburn 1 Blackpool 1 Bolton 1 Bournemouth 1 Brighton 1 Derby 1 Huddersfield 1 Man City 1 Middlesbrough 1 Portsmouth 1 Southampton 1 Stoke City 1 Swansea City 1 Wigan Ath 1 What miracles have to occur for us to finally do it? I only make that 15 seasons that we could have got promoted to the prem since 2000, the other four really would have been miracle promotions to the prem because we were playing in the third tier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky belly Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 For me the single most important thing is the manager. You need a strong group that are willing to run through a brick wall for him. You don't need the most talented or the most expensive, you need the most determined and organised group and you can make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) Whoever takes us back up will be a legend. We are in a similar boat to Forest and Leeds unfortunately. Historic big club with big expectations, but just can’t seem to get it right. There is a certain pressure about playing for us and we’ve never had a manager or the right set of players who can handle it. On the other hand, we were horrendously mis managed between 2000 and 2010. 10 years of financial struggle, selling our best players and boardroom shenanigans. Mandaric steadied the boat but never invested. Megson, Jones and Gray had a bunch of honest hard working players punching above their ability in the Championship, sprinkled with a few decent prem loans here and there. Chansiri came in and we got very close twice, but his inexperience in football cost us. And tbh we spent money but it was never serious money. Villa and Wolves bought top players at this level to ensure even if they failed the first time they were bound to get back up eventually. Of course you have your Pigs and Huddersfield’s who ride a wave of team spirit and togetherness to get promoted. But clubs like Norwich, Burnley and Brighton in recent seasons already had a Premier League infrastructure in place. Behind the scenes Wednesday still needs a lot of work done to be Premier League ready. I think with Bruce in charge we have finally appointed the right sort of manager to get us promoted. Just a huge shame if Chansiri appointed Bruce in the first place and left him in charge of recruitment we’d probably be there by now. Edited May 30, 2019 by SallyCinnamon 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said: I only make that 15 seasons that we could have got promoted to the prem since 2000, the other four really would have been miracle promotions to the prem because we were playing in the third tier! It's almost the same point though isn't it. We've been that w4nk that we've ended up with those 4 seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddyowl Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Simple answer is when we have a team that's good enough, hopefully we're heading in the right direction and we can mount a sustainable challenge to rectify the dogshite we've had to endure for a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Just now, TheEnchanter said: It's almost the same point though isn't it. We've been that w4nk that we've ended up with those 4 seasons. The thing is mate, it seems an eternity for fans like me and you because we were too young to see us in the Prem. The 90s for a lot of Wednesday fans probably doesn’t seem that long ago. For us it’s more frustrating because all we’ve ever known is the Championship or League One. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said: The thing is mate, it seems an eternity for fans like me and you because we were too young to see us in the Prem. The 90s for a lot of Wednesday fans probably doesn’t seem that long ago. For us it’s more frustrating because all we’ve ever known is the Championship or League One. I think that's what it boils down to for me. It's not to say that we should be in the Prem, that we have the right or that it'd be like being on cloud 9 every week. But just to experience Promotion winning seasons from the Championship would be priceless. You can see the list of teams that have had multiple promotions, it's frustrating seeing that they've enjoyed what they've enjoyed. It feels like it's about time it was us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxonOwl Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: You can see the list of teams that have had multiple promotions, it's frustrating seeing that they've enjoyed what they've enjoyed. They have had to bear the relegations too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 There's a big difference between the "miracles" required to keep a team up and the "miracles" required for promotion. Until MM came along, we kept having to sell players to survive. After MM came along we signed lots of players on free transfers and rarely splashed the cash except for Madine and Antonio, both of whom have since proved to be bargains and became saleable assets. To compete at the top of the division with smaller clubs who have steadily invested and built like Hull, Burnley, Bournemouth, Swansea, Huddersfield etc and bigger clubs with parachute payments and any other clubs with parachute payments, a team like Wednesday who were in £36M of debt after tumbling out of the prem and spent next to nothing ever since on the ground, the infrastructure, or the team, it would have taken a very special kind of miracle to find a manager and the calibre of players, to get us promoted above all the others. Every team in the championship now aspires to finish in the top half of the division, with 1/2 to 2/3 of them capable of finishing in the top six if they put enough effort in and get a good enough run of games together. Unfortunately before DC came along we were in the last third, last quarter and then the bottom four of the division for spending on players, on wages and on developing players. We had been so desperately underfunded for so long that we had a bare bones squad of players that ended up playing third tier football for two years on two occasions. We have only had a real chance of getting into that top six on two occasions and got so close to doing it in DC's very first season. I really believe that if we had bought another defensive midfielder, a fullback and a nippy winger that season, we would have gone up automatically, but we missed out just on a slice of good fortune for Hull, or good play, if you believe that players and teams make their own luck (which I do). The second occasion we overperformed with a handful of players playing far too many games, while carrying injuries, which we paid ofr the next season and again this season. Unfortunately the best players for Wednesday have been the ones bought in that first season and many of those have shown that they only had one or two good seasons left in them. The biggest bit of luck we could have, would have been for DC to appoint a proper manager in the first place and allow that manager to bring in the players he wanted without meddling, because the majority of players brought in have proved to be way overpriced and way overpaid for what they have contributed to the club's promotion drive. I think the miracle that will get us up happened the day that Steve Bruce agreed to be our manager and that this season he will get the best out of whatever players he has at his disposal and drag us over the finishing line to the prem. I think he will be aided by the other miracle that is Mr Chansiri, who, if he has successfully managed to negotiate a method of letting Bruce re-invest in the squad this summer, will have shown that he has learnt a hell of a lot in his very short time as our chairman and deserves all the praise and admiration that will come his way. UTO! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie snerklebox Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I'm lucky I guess. I started watching Wednesday during the dark years of the mid 70's (thanks to my late Grandad). I witnessed first hand the struggles under Burtenshaw & Ashurst, the resurgence under Jack & Wilko, and the glory years under Big Ron & Tricky Trev. Nowadays, it's the kids I feel for..... My lad is 19, goes home & away every week. Bless him, all he's ever known is failure. It's the young uns that I feel for, no DECENT top flight football at S6 for over 20 years now. Come on Wednesday sort this poo out!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Most of the clubs that have gone up have either bought promotion, Wolves, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Watford or the clubs are well run Burnley, Huddersfield, Brighton Norwich we unfortunately are neither. Others have good one of season such as those at S2 where they went up built on a team ethic or Fulham last year with a few players on fire. From season to season we don't know as a club where we are, be it in the players or the club management - this close season another perfect example are we under an embargo or are we not can we go out and strengthen our squad weakness or are we hoping for a few free agents that strengthen the team. Every close season we are so far behind the 8 ball, we should have everyone in for the start of preseason so we can grow as a team and be firing from the first game. In reality we will be scrabbling around on transfer deadline day to get in players we need at 3 times their value or worth. Until we are run correctly as a football club from top to bottom its going to take a lot of luck, or a player or two on fire for us to realistically get promotion. I hope things change with Bruce in the club, but Bruce can only do so much until we have someone running the club that knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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