nevthelodgemoorowl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, StudentOwl said: Yeah but I mean... is he though? Like... attacking midfielders should be able to shoot. 5 goals in 110 games. Or create. 12 assists. Yeah I know I know, it doesn't show if he's assisted the assister or whatever... but for an "attacking midfielder" those are some diabolical numbers. Bannan's a tricky one. He's a great player but he can't tackle or shoot or make assists or head a ball. But genuinely he is a great player. But he also can't do any of those things... all required of a good central midfielder. He's an enigma. So in summary Bannan offers nothing other than being a great player I think we will see a slightly different Bannan from the one encouraged to play slow, slow, quick . quick, slow with our back line. His shots and goal stats will improve the deeper he gets into the opposition half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I like reach in the middle but Bannan is a shoe in for me I would be surprised if Jos didn’t find a place for him when he is ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, Weshallovercome said: Think you're wrong on both counts, Reach isn't quick or tricky enough to be a winger, but has good lungs and central midfield suits him. Bannan's goal scoring record suggests he's a defensive midfielder, personally like my attacking mids to score a few. Yes but he doesnt tackle either...so hes not a defensive midfielder...hes a deep lying ball player...he plays with the ball...he creates...just because he does it from deep...just because he is physically situated further back on the pitch...does not make him defensive...hes very much an attacking player...he just does his work deeper...he doesnt run about tackle intercepting so to say hes defensive is clearly wrong. Barry Bannan is absolutely under no circumstances a defensive midfielder just becuase of his location on the pitch...anyone who knows anything about football will tell you hes not a defensive midfielder...his goal record is poor...thats not his strength...but hes not a defensive player in any shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshallovercome Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, StudentOwl said: Yeah but I mean... is he though? Like... attacking midfielders should be able to shoot. 5 goals in 110 games. Or create. 12 assists. Yeah I know I know, it doesn't show if he's assisted the assister or whatever... but for an "attacking midfielder" those are some diabolical numbers. Bannan's a tricky one. He's a great player but he can't tackle or shoot or make assists or head a ball. But genuinely he is a great player. But he also can't do any of those things... all required of a good central midfielder. He's an enigma. Was going to put something similiar in my other post, but got bored. Bannan is an enigma, you're spot on.......under Carlos I actually thought he was detrimental to the side as everything went through him, other midfielders didn't look up(pnarr) they just automatical passed to Bannan so midfield became a bit none existent, not blaming Bannan per se, because it was obvious that was CC's 'master plan'. He's a good player, but still not sure what his best position is. Edited January 30, 2018 by Weshallovercome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Wow.!! What has Jos done to this team.??? Matias and Nuhiu can't be dropped. And Bannan can't get a game. Fantasy isn’t it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: Bannan or Pelupessey for me in this formation. You don't play both. They are the deepest midfield player and almost play with the 3 centre backs as the wing backs bomb forward. I think ultimately for the whole formation we need better wing backs. I think this is it in essence for me. While I actually totally agree with Fib on him being the "number 8" in a midfield 3, I don't think it'd work in only a system that plays wingbacks. Reason is that they'll be sitting deeper than traditional wingers, and coupled with say Joey's deep positioning could lead to us not having enough forward men for Bannan to aim at. Resulting in us seeing what we've seen from Bannan for the last 12 months or so. If we played 4-3-3 or Joey Pelupessy was dropped then it's a different story. The alternative is of course going to Jos' preferred 4-2-3-1 formation. Pelupessy and Bannan in that "2" could work. So I think obviously there is definitely room for Bannan, but only if we either changed formation, or we could retain the same formation providing Pelupessy was dropped in favour of Bannan. If that makes sense Edited January 30, 2018 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Cosby Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fibonacci91 said: Yes i would drop Reach for Bannan if it came to it...there isnt a player in our entire squad that I wouldnt drop for Bannan...however i dont think it would come to that. I would drop Wallace/Boyd for Bannan...I would drop Reach back to the wing when KL is fit to play Reach as wing back and Lee and BB either side of Pessi/Hutch. However, we dont have to play 3 at the back and have only been doing so due to injuries...his preferred formation is 4-3-2-1....in this I would have Reach on wing or as number 10 behind striker.,.with Bannan in the centre. Fully fit squad...I would seriously hope we arnt going to persist with essentially one in midfield...with two wingers either side of him Each to their own, but for me this attitude of a player must play in any position at any cost, has been part of the problem and isn't a part of the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: Bannan or Pelupessey for me in this formation. You don't play both. They are the deepest midfield player and almost play with the 3 centre backs as the wing backs bomb forward. I think ultimately for the whole formation we need better wing backs. Bannan was told to play deep...he is not a tackler...he is not a defensive player...he is not an alternative to Pessi...hutch is the alternative to Pessi...bannan would left in a 3 of whoever our defensive tackler is (Hutch/Pessi) Bannan is not like for like with Pessi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Cosby Blunkett said: Each to their own, but for me this attitude of a player must play in any position at any cost, has been part of the problem and isn't a part of the solution. Im not shoe horning him in though im claiming we should play him in his exact position...not as our deepest midfielder protecting the back 4...but not as a 10 either...there is such thing as a normal central midfielder...gerrard...lamprd? Scholes? all played 8...never 10...non of them playing 'in the hole' they were box to box (KL) or creative lying play makers but from a little deeper than say an Ozil/Coutinho (BB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshallovercome Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fibonacci91 said: Yes but he doesnt tackle either...so hes not a defensive midfielder...hes a deep lying ball player...he plays with the ball...he creates...just because he does it from deep...just because he is physically situated further back on the pitch...does not make him defensive...hes very much an attacking player...he just does his work deeper...he doesnt run about tackle intercepting so to say hes defensive is clearly wrong. Barry Bannan is absolutely under no circumstances a defensive midfielder just becuase of his location on the pitch...anyone who knows anything about football will tell you hes not a defensive midfielder...his goal record is poor...thats not his strength...but hes not a defensive player in any shape or form. I agree, I think......but even a 'deep lying' midfielder needs to make a tackle now and again, what worrys me the most where ever he plays is that we'll revert back to type, other players automatically passing to him and ultimately stiffling the midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, StudentOwl said: I think this is it in essence for me. While I actually totally agree with Fib on him being the "number 8" in a midfield 3, I don't think it'd work in only a system that plays wingbacks. Reason is that they'll be sitting deeper than traditional wingers, and coupled with say Joey's deep positioning could lead to us not having enough forward men for Bannan to aim at. Resulting in us seeing what we've seen from Bannan for the last 12 months or so. If we played 4-3-3 or Joey Pelupessy was dropped then it's a different story. The alternative is of course going to Jos' preferred 4-2-3-1 formation. Pelupessy and Bannan in that "2" could work. So I think obviously there is definitely room for Bannan, but only if we either changed formation, or we could retain the same formation providing Pelupessy was dropped in favour of Bannan. If that makes sense this makes absolutely no sense...they are not like for like in any way shape or form...one is a tackler...one is a creator...bannan was told to play deep in our formation...he isnt necessarily our 'deepest lying player'...as long as he isnt told to play too deep theres no reason why he should end up being too deep. if hes told his job in that formation properly there should be no problem...he should not be in the centre of a 3...he should be one of 2 or left of a 3 Edited January 30, 2018 by Fibonacci91 error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Weshallovercome said: I agree, I think......but even a 'deep lying' midfielder needs to make a tackle now and again, what worrys me the most where ever he plays is that we'll revert back to type, other players automatically passing to him and ultimately stiffling the midfield. you telling me youve never seen him bust a gut to get back and make a slide tackle...cos i see it alll the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fibonacci91 said: this makes absolutely no sense...they are not like for like in any way shape or form...one is a tackler...one is a creator...bannan was told to play deep in our formation...he isnt necessarily our 'deepest lying player'...as long as he isnt told to play too deep theres no reason why he should end up being too deep. if hes told his job in that formation properly there should be no problem Ah, this is the source of our disagreement and why my post "makes no sense". If you remove the assumption that Bannan was told to play deep, my post makes complete sense. He doesn't "play deep" like Pelupessy in the traditional sense, but I'd argue Bannan does like to wander to get the ball, including coming deep for it often. Think Rooney except with a starting point further back down the pitch. So although no, he's no like-for-like for Pessy, he would start dropping deep to get the ball and effectively mean both he and Pessy were deep. Which is why I don't think it'd work in a system with wingbacks, but would for a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1... both of these latter systems have enough player "in front" of the midfield line to justify having two players go deep Unfortunately all the above is just my opinion... it ultimately hinges on "Was he asked to play deep or does he do it anyway", so I can totally get why we won't be in agreement on this. Agree to disagree Edited January 30, 2018 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Where did the Banan does not tackle come from? Bizzare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxonOwl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) I see numbers being bandied about, like 8 and 4 What are the positions of the 'old' numbering system? Something like this? 9 7 11 8 10 4 2 5 6 3 1 ...or what? Edited January 30, 2018 by OxonOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshallovercome Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Fibonacci91 said: you telling me youve never seen him bust a gut to get back and make a slide tackle...cos i see it alll the time Yes. but no.......he general attempts to make a slide tackle but rarely gets the ball. I'm not going to knock Bannan, the lad gives his all and can ping the ball all over the park, reminds me of Tommy Craig in that respect, but without the goal scoring qualities. We do need to try to fit him in somewhere, beause he's too good to be left out, and think you were right earlier, the only position I can see him in is left midfield. Edited January 30, 2018 by Weshallovercome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy logics Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Simple...Reach as a wingback and Bannan on the left of a three. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, OxonOwl said: I see numbers being bandied about, like 8 and 4 What are the positions of the 'old' numbering system? Something like this? 9 7 11 8 10 4 2 5 6 3 1 ...or what? Pretty much mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, hugeowl said: Where did the Banan does not tackle come from? Bizzare From the number of tackles he makes during a game compared to our other centre midfielders. They're the lowest average of any CM at the club over the last 3 years Edited January 30, 2018 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Fibonacci91 said: Pretty much mate I'd swap 2/3 and 7/11 but thats just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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