Quality of pre-season opposition.

[Ballmeist]

The whole point of these pre season friendliest is to match up against opposition that are comparable to the opposition we'll be facing week in week out. They need to be comparable in terms of standard, and / or style of play. 

 

So far we've played Mansfield and two unknown Portuguese teams.

 

My worry is we'll start off the season and be caught out against better quality opposition than what we've grown accustomed to playing over the summer.

[OxonOwl]

Who does it differently?

[daveyboy66]

10 hours ago, Ballmeist said:

The whole point of these pre season friendliest is to match up against opposition that are comparable to the opposition we'll be facing week in week out. They need to be comparable in terms of standard, and / or style of play. 

 

So far we've played Mansfield and two unknown Portuguese teams.

 

My worry is we'll start off the season and be caught out against better quality opposition than what we've grown accustomed to playing over the summer.

like I said many times before...some posters know nothing about football...pre season friendlies are there to make sure that all the players move on with their fitness levels and get some game time and for new players to integrate with how we play...always has been

[cookeh]

On 19/07/2017 at 08:45, OxonOwl said:

Who are Preston playing friendlies against?

 

Preston's last 3 are: Newcastle, Burnley and Fleetwood (who make League One playoffs last year).

 

QPRs last 3 are: 2 german sides (one being bundesliga 2) and finishing with Bournemouth.

 

Sunderlands last 3 are: Bradford and Scunthorpe (both League One playoff sides) and then Glasgow Celtic.

 

Fulham: Just played Chelsea and West Ham. 2 games left, Wolfsburg (Budesliga) and Darmstadt (just relegated from Budesliga).

 

Burton Albion: West Brom, nobodies, Shrewsbury (League One) and then Leicester.

 

 

We are certainly the exceptions in choosing to have a preseason made up of pure amateur, walkover sides.

[OxonOwl]

Middlesborough drew with Mansfield the other day

[cookeh]

1 minute ago, OxonOwl said:

Middlesborough drew with Mansfield the other day

 

They finish their preseason with Bundesliga Augsburg.

 

For me it's not at all about results, but getting sharp. If you're playing against team and player considerably worse than you then you're not going to get to the required level. If you're playing against players who do things with the ball that lesser players don't then you'll be ready for when that happens in the early league games. If it was "just about getting some miles in the legs" as some have suggested then we'd just send players out jogging. It's for match sharpness, which you can't get playing mickey mouse sides. That's why everyone but us is playing decent opposition.

[modboy]

Really could have done with a match against a decent L1 side to push us a bit, perhaps Bradford

[Ballmeist]

5 hours ago, daveyboy66 said:

like I said many times before...some posters know nothing about football...pre season friendlies are there to make sure that all the players move on with their fitness levels and get some game time and for new players to integrate with how we play...always has been

 

So by your logic it doesn't matter who the opposition is? You should probably put yourself in the aforementioned category. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

Never seen a  friendly which has given me an expectation for the forth coming season.

 

I'd never draw a conclusion from such games they are a step up from a training game designed to get rid of cobwebs and try out a few ideas.

 

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

4 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Preston's last 3 are: Newcastle, Burnley and Fleetwood (who make League One playoffs last year).

 

QPRs last 3 are: 2 german sides (one being bundesliga 2) and finishing with Bournemouth.

 

Sunderlands last 3 are: Bradford and Scunthorpe (both League One playoff sides) and then Glasgow Celtic.

 

Fulham: Just played Chelsea and West Ham. 2 games left, Wolfsburg (Budesliga) and Darmstadt (just relegated from Budesliga).

 

Burton Albion: West Brom, nobodies, Shrewsbury (League One) and then Leicester.

 

 

We are certainly the exceptions in choosing to have a preseason made up of pure amateur, walkover sides.

 

 

And your conclusion is?   

[1963owl]

4 hours ago, Holmes said:

 

And your conclusion is?   

that pre season friendlies are abou fitness levels & not much else?

[1963owl]

1 minute ago, steveger said:

Hope Sunderland ad their fans get their vaccinations up to date before playing them tramps ....

[crookesowl]

We want games where we get to play. It brings confidence and focuses the mind on scoring goals. 

 

This squad knows it can win games and defend - confidence is the key thing going into the season and the pre-season fixtures are setting us up nicely. 

[owler66]

Isn't it funny the only time I can remember what we've done in a pre season is when we're in one,all will be forgotten come 5th August 

[Watto]

On 21/07/2017 at 11:43, cookeh said:

 

Preston's last 3 are: Newcastle, Burnley and Fleetwood (who make League One playoffs last year).

 

QPRs last 3 are: 2 german sides (one being bundesliga 2) and finishing with Bournemouth.

 

Sunderlands last 3 are: Bradford and Scunthorpe (both League One playoff sides) and then Glasgow Celtic.

 

Fulham: Just played Chelsea and West Ham. 2 games left, Wolfsburg (Budesliga) and Darmstadt (just relegated from Budesliga).

 

Burton Albion: West Brom, nobodies, Shrewsbury (League One) and then Leicester.

 

 

We are certainly the exceptions in choosing to have a preseason made up of pure amateur, walkover sides.

Walkover sides ..... Mansfield 3-2 Portom..... 1-0 and faranse 1-1 , hardly walkover were they? 

[cookeh]

On 21/07/2017 at 16:33, Holmes said:

 

And your conclusion is?   

 

It's too early for conclusions really, but we can make observations:

That every one of the teams are playing sides notably better than themselves near the end of preseason.

It would follow that they'll all be more used to playing teams of our level or higher, than we will be, because they've been playing against players who do the type of things (or better) that are done by the players we'll face in the league.

 

We also know:

This preseason is very similar to our last 2, in that we've basically played relatively poor quality sides (with the exception of Porto).

And we know our last two seasons have featured very poor starts.

The season before that, with a significantly worse squad, we played a 'competitive' preseason and had much better start.

 

So it's sensible to ask: "Why have we started the last 2 seasons so poorly?" and "How can we stop it from happening again?"

At the moment I'm speculating that it's connected to the competitiveness of our preseason opponents. i.e. that they're basically sub-par and leave us behind the curve for the Championship, given that our opponents there are all preparing with games against Premier League sides.

 

So right now I'm expecting us to have another slow start to the season, to me that would then give us a pretty good correlation. Obviously I hope we don't and that we win the first 6 and walk the league. But I don't see any harm in looking at our starts, what came before them and wondering if the fact we're playing much weaker opposition than our rivals might have something to do with why we're slow out the blocks.

[Inspector Lestrade]

2 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

It's too early for conclusions really, but we can make observations:

That every one of the teams are playing sides notably better than themselves near the end of preseason.

It would follow that they'll all be more used to playing teams of our level or higher, than we will be, because they've been playing against players who do the type of things (or better) that are done by the players we'll face in the league.

 

We also know:

This preseason is very similar to our last 2, in that we've basically played relatively poor quality sides (with the exception of Porto).

And we know our last two seasons have featured very poor starts.

The season before that, with a significantly worse squad, we played a 'competitive' preseason and had much better start.

 

So it's sensible to ask: "Why have we started the last 2 seasons so poorly?" and "How can we stop it from happening again?"

At the moment I'm speculating that it's connected to the competitiveness of our preseason opponents. i.e. that they're basically sub-par and leave us behind the curve for the Championship, given that our opponents there are all preparing with games against Premier League sides.

 

So right now I'm expecting us to have another slow start to the season, to me that would then give us a pretty good correlation. Obviously I hope we don't and that we win the first 6 and walk the league. But I don't see any harm in looking at our starts, what came before them and wondering if the fact we're playing much weaker opposition than our rivals might have something to do with why we're slow out the blocks.

 

 

I fail to see the link that playing so called weak teams causes a slow start to the season.  It could be down to a whole host of reasons as to why.  You could speculate on what ever your pet theory maybe.

 

I've known us to have a brilliant preseason and ended up with a poor season and vice versa.

 

As someone pointed out Middlesborough lost to some lower league club should we presume that their season is going to be woeful? I would suggest not.

 

 

 

 

[cookeh]

On 22/07/2017 at 11:52, Watto said:

Walkover sides ..... Mansfield 3-2 Portom..... 1-0 and faranse 1-1 , hardly walkover were they? 

 

I've said from the start it's not about results. You can lose to anyone in preseason and frankly it doesn't matter.

The point of preseason, to me, is to build fitness and prepare you for playing the level of football that you'll be playing when competitive games start. When that whistle blows on teh 5th of August we want to be ready; that ideally means being fitter and sharper than our opponents.

 

Are we building fitness? Sure.

Are we playing teams that will challenge us in a similar way to our early league opponents? Absolutely not.

 

So to me, it seems like we can't possibly be as sharp as sharp as the teams we'll play early doors in the Championship are, because they're playing teams that will challenge them, technically, on a player by player basis. Their defenders will have had to try their best to cope with premier league opposition. their forwards will have had more of a fight with premier league defenders, their midfielders will probably have more miles in their legs as they're chasing teams that use the ball much better.

 

We on the other hand, playing poorer sides will probably let out level drop somewhat since we don't need to push ourselves as much. It's much easier to motivate yourself when you know you're in for a challenge and the game carries a little bit of prestige. Burton are playing Leicester in their final game, they'll be right up for that and wanting to win it. They'll put in 100% against a quality side. We play Rangers.. we'll probably coast against a very poor, disorganised side. Which preparation is better?

 

I'm not stating outright that we're going to have a poor start. But I am saying that this is very similar to our last two preseasons, which came before two very poor starts and there seem to be some fairly sensible reasons why the two could be connected.

 

[Costello 77]

1 minute ago, cookeh said:

 

I've said from the start it's not about results. You can lose to anyone in preseason and frankly it doesn't matter.

The point of preseason, to me, is to build fitness and prepare you for playing the level of football that you'll be playing when competitive games start. When that whistle blows on teh 5th of August we want to be ready; that ideally means being fitter and sharper than our opponents.

 

Are we building fitness? Sure.

Are we playing teams that will challenge us in a similar way to our early league opponents? Absolutely not.

 

So to me, it seems like we can't possibly be as sharp as sharp as the teams we'll play early doors in the Championship are, because they're playing teams that will challenge them, technically, on a player by player basis. Their defenders will have had to try their best to cope with premier league opposition. their forwards will have had more of a fight with premier league defenders, their midfielders will probably have more miles in their legs as they're chasing teams that use the ball much better.

 

We on the other hand, playing poorer sides will probably let out level drop somewhat since we don't need to push ourselves as much. It's much easier to motivate yourself when you know you're in for a challenge and the game carries a little bit of prestige. Burton are playing Leicester in their final game, they'll be right up for that and wanting to win it. They'll put in 100% against a quality side. We play Rangers.. we'll probably coast against a very poor, disorganised side. Which preparation is better?

 

I'm not stating outright that we're going to have a poor start. But I am saying that this is very similar to our last two preseasons, which came before two very poor starts and there seem to be some fairly sensible reasons why the two could be connected.

 

You make some fair points there.

[cookeh]

27 minutes ago, Finlux_Cup said:

 

You're over thinking it mate, it IS all about maintaining and improving fitness levels, for some it's also about trying new things out, but ultimately it's to get the squad battle ready for August 5th.

 

If it was purely about fitness, then surely we'd just do that in the gym, without the risk of contact injuries that come with playing matches. 'Miles in the legs' is much better achieved outside a game setting.

We play matches to get everyone building understanding, playing patterns and making sure everyone is sharp and ready to deal with match situations.

 

It's harder to build understandings if you're only playing games in which you should be dominant as you've probably not going to have a lot of time where the defense needs to be highly coordinated and resilient. Has our defense had any times in pre-season where we've actually been under the cosh at all? It's all been sporadic counter attacks and that's not going to be the case when the real games start.

Similarly for the forward players, if a poor defender is not closing them down and they can cross from where they are, they won't be making runs and playing 1-2s to try and go past people. If the defenders' positioning is bad you don't need to time your run as well to get infront or escape your marker.

The midfield wont have to work as a defensive unit as well as an attacking one, they wont have to chase and cover as much ground because the other team uses the ball well, and they wont have to offer as much if everyone has a bit more space because they're not being closed down.

 

You simply can't be ready if you're playing worse teams consistently throughout the pre-season. You might want to intentionally play worse teams during pre-season in order to focus on your final 3rd, but to play them every game seems very much like folly, and it's telling that we seem to be the only people doing it.