Paolo Di Catio Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 hours ago, DeeJayOne said: Of course the late fans thing is completely moot because facts show that they couldn't get the anywhere near the number of PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT TICKETS through the amount of turnstiles available in the amount of time the turnstiles were open in any case. There just weren't enough turnstiles available. Which led to the crush outside. Ticketless fans or not. The crush was going to happen outside anyway. So imagine if everybody that turned up that day got in and were divided equally amongst the pens in an orderly fashion. The disaster would still have happened as there were far too many people for that end. Look at all the areas on any video/ film you see of that day and the whole end was thronging. Liverpool fans still go to games without tickets, there was a near disaster at Champs League final and several others where they complain of not enough tickets. Fans are part of the blame. It was the butterfly effect of all things coming together at one fateful time. To absolve them of all blame does not sit well with me, nor would it sit with my relatives (that have since passed on) who lived in the area at the time of the disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamsandwich Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 21 hours ago, lukestheman82 said: The Jury also said O.J was innocent, don't make them right. The jury found him not giulty - beyond a reasonable doubt. If you watched the doco/drama about it recently you can easily see how that would happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthinrob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Maddogbob said: It nearly happend with spurs fans a year or two earlier. That day football got lucky. I do however agree with some of your points. That's what i was referring to mate, but i accept it could be easily missed in a longish post. "I'm sorry mate, no offence, it looks like i'm just looking for a reason to have a pop here, but you keep quoting figures, stats, evidence, without applying previous historical facts and a bit of common sense. I was there that day as i was for most of the multitude of Semi's we hosted around that time. You quote categorically that the 'crush' would have happened regardless of the numbers. Well maybe it would, but how come nothing like this happened before, with possibly one (nothing like as severe) exception. People have eyes and a brain and should form their own opinions based on their experiences rather than slavishly taking on board what a group of people (judges etc) who probably had never been to a match, (certainly not stood on an 'end') tell them what happened. If you are too young to have experienced what life at football was like in those days then maybe you are not able to do this but those who are old enough to remember will be able to relate to it better. Also too many people (possibly including the 'enquiry') are applying the standards of the current day to events that happened then. Again, i'm sorry, but it just seems to me it is reason after reason to justify what happened. This time it's insufficient number of turnstiles. If they had double the amount, treble the amount, quadruple the amount, would it have been enough? Not looking at the crush outside. The obvious question, anyone with half a brain would normally ask is why, with minutes to go before kick off, why were there so many people still outside when nearly every Forest fan had been in the ground for ages. It seems to me they answered certain questions but completely ignored others, that to people who had been around regularly during those times were absolutely fundamental & obvious." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Maddogbob said: It nearly happend with spurs fans a year or two earlier. That day football got lucky. I do however agree with some of your points. Different scenario on the Spurs/wolves game. The crush occured because several hundred Spurs fans that had purchased tickets for the Wolves end, were refused admission on the kop so the police put them into an already sold out Leppings Lane! which, by the way was a common occurance at all football grounds at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Can we all just remember that this post is about Pokemon Go? Talk about taking it off topic... I've never even heard of "Liverpool". Are they a non-league side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Apple said: Can we all just remember that this post is about Pokemon Go? Talk about taking it off topic... I've never even heard of "Liverpool". Are they a non-league side? I'd definitely advocate that. Let's get back on topic really. Personally, I think it's a good thing. Gives even more people the chance to visit not just this memorial, but others as well. Certainly when I'm out and about, I'm not only taking advantage of the game, but a chance to reflect on the things around us that we never really paid any attention to in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 26 minutes ago, bigthinrob said: That's what i was referring to mate, but i accept it could be easily missed in a longish post. No worries fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Pokémon is not important FFS...there's still half a herd of elephants roamin around Sheffield that hasn't been found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Di Catio Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Anybody playing the game who's over the age of 16 needs a kick up the arse. Might help em grow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Just now, daveyboy66 said: Pokémon is not important FFS...there's still half a herd of elephants roamin around Sheffield that hasn't been found Your right it's a fun little game, that some take far to seriously. But that's human nature. As for the elephant s, that was bad timing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 minutes ago, Paolo Di Catio said: Anybody playing the game who's over the age of 16 needs a kick up the arse. Might help em grow up Now now, let's not make sweeping statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthinrob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Apple said: Can we all just remember that this post is about Pokemon Go? Talk about taking it off topic... I've never even heard of "Liverpool". Are they a non-league side? The reason it's going 'off topic' is that we've been gagged for God knows how long and not been able to discuss / debate the issue on here without someone on high suddenly panicking and pulling the threads. Especially during the 83 years the 'enquiry' took! It's natural people want to discuss it, after all it's Sheffield Wednesday as a club, Sheffield Wednesday's ground and to some extent Sheffield as a whole, that was being vilified with no point of redress. It's no wonder people go off on a tangent when anything relating to this crops up! Clearly the subject is still of massive interest with people wanting to express their views to balance the 'accepted truth' that came out of the enquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthinrob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, bigthinrob said: The reason it's going 'off topic' is that we've been gagged for God knows how long and not been able to discuss / debate the issue on here without someone on high suddenly panicking and pulling the threads. Especially during the 83 years the 'enquiry' took! It's natural people want to discuss it, after all it's Sheffield Wednesday as a club, Sheffield Wednesday's ground and to some extent Sheffield as a whole, that was being vilified with no point of redress. It's no wonder people go off on a tangent when anything relating to this crops up! Clearly the subject is still of massive interest with people wanting to express their views to balance the 'accepted truth' that came out of the enquiry. Oops sorry. !! Veered off course again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bigthinrob said: The reason it's going 'off topic' is that we've been gagged for God knows how long and not been able to discuss / debate the issue on here without someone on high suddenly panicking and pulling the threads. Especially during the 83 years the 'enquiry' took! It's natural people want to discuss it, after all it's Sheffield Wednesday as a club, Sheffield Wednesday's ground and to some extent Sheffield as a whole, that was being vilified with no point of redress. It's no wonder people go off on a tangent when anything relating to this crops up! Clearly the subject is still of massive interest with people wanting to express their views to balance the 'accepted truth' that came out of the enquiry. Threads were pulled at the time, for a reason fella. It's an emotive subject. We all have our own view on the whys and how's along with what we accept as the truth. Certainly we can all say something in the heat of the moment that we may regret later. Edited August 24, 2016 by Maddogbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthinrob Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Maddogbob said: Threads were pulled at the time, for a reason fella. It's an emotive subject. We all have our own view on the whys and how's along with what we accept as the truth. Certainly we can all say something in the heat of the moment that we may regret later. No i fully understand why they were a bit twitchy about it during the enquiry, but as i said, if people have been gagged for a while and not allowed to express their opinions where others were allowed to, when the restraints are lifted people are going to want to have their say. As for having 'our own views', to be quite honest, the majority on here seem to take quite a reasonable view (with odd exceptions) that the disaster was the result of a combination of events, not solely, but certainly not excluding the behaviour of some Liverpool fans. This is where the opposite camp differ, that they bore absolutely no responsibility. I would suggest the former point of view is the more balanced and reasonable of the two. But maybe enough now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 We discussed it on Owlsonline and decided the Inquest gave the answers to the questions we knew what the answer would always be. Could have saved a lot of time and cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Paolo Di Catio said: So imagine if everybody that turned up that day got in and were divided equally amongst the pens in an orderly fashion. The disaster would still have happened as there were far too many people for that end. Look at all the areas on any video/ film you see of that day and the whole end was thronging. Liverpool fans still go to games without tickets, there was a near disaster at Champs League final and several others where they complain of not enough tickets. Fans are part of the blame. It was the butterfly effect of all things coming together at one fateful time. To absolve them of all blame does not sit well with me, nor would it sit with my relatives (that have since passed on) who lived in the area at the time of the disaster Read the hse report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 12 hours ago, bigthinrob said: Sorry teacher! If that is the case, why did we spend God knows how many millions on the second enquiry if the first one was the same. My understanding was that the first one according to those 'involved' was a 'whitewash' and again, 'those involved' had consistently pushed for a second one ever since, hence the 'justice' campaign etc and the final euphoria (possibly not a good word in the context of everything) when the second lot of 'findings' were revealed. If they were the same as the first, then why were they so unhappy at the first & more than satisfied with the second? I suppose someone will come on who has bound copies of both enquiries that can quote sections that disprove my 'general' assumptions, but hey ho, I read the entire text of the Nuremberg trials so who am I to f*****n talk? Anyway on to other matters, what about that k**b Corbyn, pretending he couldn't get a seat on the train to Newcastle. If you think the Taylor Report was a whitewash you haven't read it. The subsequent inquest was the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Brexit and Hillsborough... Two topics best not to discuss unless you want an argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curren Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Do they have a pokestop at the memorial for the Heysel 39 in Liverpool? Or will that come once they've stopped the relentless campaign for justice for the 39? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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