Anger as Pokemon Go uses SWFC Hillsborough memorial as 'Pokestop'

[Paolo Di Catio]

40 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Your grasp of the basic facts is faulty. Why would you have any idea what the truth is when you thought the Bishop of Liverpool was the coroner - which is a very simple point?

 

People who have done exhaustive investigations into this have one view - the people who don't like Scousers or "know" what happened without reading the various reports have another.  I know the group I prefer to listen to. 

  Never said he was the coroner, up your basic facts are faulty.

I have no issues with scousers. You seem to be coming to your own conclusions why I don't follow your line.

 

Fans were a part of the disaster, to absolve them completely is incorrect

[DeeJayOne]

Fans WERE part of the disaster.

 

Their part was being the VICTIMS of it.

 

Simplified: They turned up on a Saturday afternoon to watch a football match. They were told to arrive 15 minutes before kick off on the ticket. There weren't enough turnstiles open in a badly designed and policed area to process the c.2000 people still outside in time for kick-off so they started panicking and a crush was caused outside. A fateful decision was made to open an exit gate that pointed to the central pens without closing off those already packed central pens and directing people to the emptier pens around the sides or adequate signage to send people to the correct areas, thus the people in those central pens were crushed. Some of them to death. 

 

For a football match.

 

On a Saturday afternoon.

 

 

 

[Dick_Turpin]

13 minutes ago, Paolo Di Catio said:

  Never said he was the coroner, up your basic facts are faulty.

I have no issues with scousers. You seem to be coming to your own conclusions why I don't follow your line.

 

Fans were a part of the disaster, to absolve them completely is incorrect

You said he chaired the inquest "near Liverpool". He didn't. That was the coroner John Goldring. 

[southportdc]

I hope all those people who think drunkenness was a cause are willing to die at a football game next time they have a few pints. 

 

That's surely the logical conclusion if you think drunk fans caused the disaster yet drink at football games? You're willing to endanger the life of yourself and everyone around you?

 

Or possibly you know that drunk football fans are only really killed when the people who are meant to look after their safety fuuck up. 

[southportdc]

I mean, I was smashed out of my mind at Brighton last year. Didn't die even once. 

[Gnarwolf]

12 hours ago, Paolo Di Catio said:

 

Nowt to do with not having fun, it's childish. If anybody over the age of 16 wanders abart collecting cartoon blobs they need to seriosly re-evaluate their life.

flipping hell... I bet you're a blast at parties

Actually Pokemon was huge initially in the 90's so anyone who was a child in the 90's will probably play this simply for the nostalgia factor, just because you don't see why people enjoy things doesn't mean that they're "childish", after all football's just a game and look how worked up we got about it on here

[pachyderm]

On 8/23/2016 at 10:42, Tommo_ said:

 

 

You should watch the documentary. It's a real eye opener. SYP had our pants down over the disaster.

 

Did the club have their pants down or the police/folks controlling the crowd? 

[coopswfc76]

Actually I'm starting to change my view that there was lots of contributing factors now because DeeJayOne in particular keeps insisting fans had no blame attached at all.

There was no unruly drunken behaviour or ticketless fans at the semi final to contribute as for some strange reason this was the one big game in the 80's where none of this happened.

The end.

[DeeJayOne]

1. Basic facts of the disaster: Do you agree with the following statement: "Ninety-six people died as a result of the disaster at the Hillsborough stadium on 15 April 1989 due to crushing in the central pens of the Leppings Lane terrace, following the admission of a large number of supporters to the stadium through exit gates." 

Jury's answer: Yes. 

 

2. Police planning for the semi-final match: Was there any error or omission in police planning or preparation which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation that developed on the day of the match? 

Jury's answer: Yes 

"We feel there were major omissions in the 1989 operational order". 

 

3. Policing of the match and the situation at the turnstiles: Was there any error or omission in policing on the day of the match which caused or contributed to a dangerous situation developing at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?  

Jury's answer: Yes  

"The police response to the increasing crowd at Leppings Lane was slow and uncoordinated.  

"The road closure and sweep of fans exacerbated the situation. No filter cordons were place in Leppings Lane. No contingency plans were made for the sudden arrival of a large number of fans.  

"Attempts to close the perimeter gates were made too late". 

 

4. Policing of the match and the crush on the terrace: Was there any error or omission by commanding officers which caused or contributed to the crush on the terrace?  

Jury's answer: Yes 

"Commanding officers should have ordered the closing of the central tunnel".  

 

5. The opening of the gates: When the order was given to open the exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the stadium was there any error or omission by the commanding officers in the control box which caused or contributed to the crush on the terrace?  

Jury's answer: Yes  

"Commanding officers did not inform officers in the inner concourse prior to the opening of Gate C.  

"Commanding officers failed to consider where fans would go.  

"Commanding officers failed to order the closure of the central tunnel prior to the opening of Gate C". 

 

6. Unlawful killing: Are you satisfied, so that you are sure, that those who died in the disaster were unlawfully killed? To answer 'yes' to this question, the jurors must be sure of the following:

• Firstly, that Ch Supt David Duckenfield owed a duty of care to the 96 who died
• Secondly, that he was in breach of that duty of care 
• Thirdly, that the breach of Mr Duckenfield's duty of care caused the deaths
• Finally, the jury must be sure that the breach which caused the deaths amounted to "gross negligence." 

Jury's answer: Yes 

 

7. Behaviour of the supporters: Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?  

Jury's answer: No  

 

8. Defects in Hillsborough stadium: Were there any features of its design, construction and layout which were dangerous or defective and which probably or may have caused or contributed to the disaster? 

Jury's answer: Yes 

"The design and layout of the crush barriers in P 3 and 4 were not fully compliant with the green guide.  

"The removal of barrier 144 and the partial removal of barrier 136 would have exacerbated the waterfall effect of pressure towards the front of the pens.  

"The lack of dedicated turnstiles for individual pens meant that capacities could not be monitored.  

"There were too few turnstiles for a capacity crowd.  

"Signage to the side pens was inadequate". 

 

9. Licensing and oversight of the stadium: Was there any error or omission in the safety certification and oversight of Hillsborough Stadium that caused or contributed to the disaster?  

Jury's answer: Yes 

"The safety certificate was never amended to reflect changes to the Leppings Lane end of the stadium. Therefore capacity figures were not updated". 

 

10. Conduct of Sheffield Wednesday FC before the day of the match: Was there any error or omission by SWFC and its staff in the management of the stadium and/or preparation for the semi final match on 15 April 1989 which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation which developed on the day of the match?  

Jury's answer: Yes 

"The club did not approve the plans for dedicated turnstiles for each pen.  

"The club did not agree any contingency plans with the police.  

"There was inadequate signage and inadequate and misleading information on the tickets". 

 

11. Conduct of Sheffield Wednesday FC on the day of the match: Was there any error or omission by SWFC and its staff on 15 April 1989 which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation that developed at the Leppings Lane turnstiles and in the west terrace?  

Jury's answer: No 

11a If "no", was there any error or omission by SWFC and its staff on 15 April 1989 which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation that developed at the Leppings Lane turnstiles and in the west terrace?  

Jury's answer: Yes 

"Club officials were aware of a huge number of fans still outside at 14:40. They should have requested a delay in kick off. 

 

12. Conduct of Eastwood and Partners (SWFC engineers): Should they have done more to detect and advise on any unsafe or unsatisfactory features of the stadium which caused or contributed to the disaster? 

Jury's answer: Yes 

Eastwood and Partners did not make their own calculations when they became consulstants for SWFC, therefore the initial capacity figures and all subsequent calculations were incorrect.  

Eastwood and Partners failed to recalculate capacity figures each time changes were made to the terraces.  

Eastwood and Partners failed to update the safety certificate after 1986.  

 

13. Emergency response and the role of South Yorkshire Police: After the crush in the West Terrace had begun to develop was there any error or omission by the police which caused or contributed to the loss of lives in the disaster? 

Jury's answer: Yes 

"The police delayed declaring a major incident so appropriate emergency response was delayed."  

 

14. Emergency response and the role of South Yorkshire Metropolitan Ambulance Service (SYMAS): After the crush in the west terrace had begun to develop, was there any error or omission by the ambulance service SYMAS which caused or contributed to the loss of lives in the disaster?  

Jury's answer: Yes 

"They failed to ascertain the nature of the problem at Leppings Lane.  

"The failure to recognise and call a major incident led to delays in responding to the emergency."

[pachyderm]

thanks.

[coopswfc76]

Thanks for that DeeJayOne 

[southportdc]

6 minutes ago, coopswfc76 said:

Actually I'm starting to change my view that there was lots of contributing factors now because DeeJayOne in particular keeps insisting fans had no blame attached at all.

There was no unruly drunken behaviour or ticketless fans at the semi final to contribute as for some strange reason this was the one big game in the 80's where none of this happened.

The end.

 

Interesting, so this happened at a lot of games did it?

 

Wonder why all the other deaths were covered up. 

[cactus]

54 minutes ago, DeeJayOne said:

Fans WERE part of the disaster.

 

Their part was being the VICTIMS of it.

 

Simplified: They turned up on a Saturday afternoon to watch a football match. They were told to arrive 15 minutes before kick off on the ticket. There weren't enough turnstiles open in a badly designed and policed area to process the c.2000 people still outside in time for kick-off so they started panicking and a crush was caused outside. A fateful decision was made to open an exit gate that pointed to the central pens without closing off those already packed central pens and directing people to the emptier pens around the sides or adequate signage to send people to the correct areas, thus the people in those central pens were crushed. Some of them to death. 

 

For a football match.

 

On a Saturday afternoon.

 

 

 

I'm not starting another argument with you again, but things like this just shows how the truth has been blurred.

 

The ticket stated for fans to "take up their position 15 mins before kick off", which was a common statement on all tickets at that time.

 

I don't know about you, but when it says take up your position, i believe it means you should be in the stand or on the terrace 15mins before kick off.

 

It was used at the inquest to justify that fans didn't turn up late. I wonder what would have been said if all 55,000 had taken that view & turned up at quarter to three.

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by cactus

[coopswfc76]

Just now, southportdc said:

 

Interesting, so this happened at a lot of games did it?

 

Wonder why all the other deaths were covered up. 

 

Err yes all big games had fans turn up pissed & ticketless to think otherwise is madness.

Unfortunately with hindsight it's clear something like Hillsborough was going to happen eventually.

How old are you southportdc?

[Inspector Lestrade]

17 minutes ago, southportdc said:

I hope all those people who think drunkenness was a cause are willing to die at a football game next time they have a few pints. 

 

That's surely the logical conclusion if you think drunk fans caused the disaster yet drink at football games? You're willing to endanger the life of yourself and everyone around you?

 

Or possibly you know that drunk football fans are only really killed when the people who are meant to look after their safety fuuck up. 

 

 

I went to the Semi final match at Villa Park was very drunk probably obnoxious, I did have a ticket but many on our coach didn't, but still got in, a lot of them had a square off with some Everton fans.  Also arrived late at the turnstiles.  

 

That was normal in those days.  For me the disaster for what ever reason was just waiting to happen.  It could have happened that day at Villa, ask any Wednesday fan how packed the Holt End was that day, I spent much of the time just trying to stay on my feet.

 

New fans have little concept how bad many grounds were in those days nor do they realise the problem of hooliganism.  The authorities were constantly pressurised into making more draconian measures to combat the problem, by the use of fencing, aggressive policing.  Only a very few spoke out against these measures and they weren't listen to.  

 

Going to the football nowadays is more akin going to the cinema especially at the new build grounds. 

 

Many of us share some responsibility for the disaster due to our behaviour.  

[coopswfc76]

1 minute ago, Holmes said:

 

 

I went to the Semi final match at Villa Park was very drunk probably obnoxious, I did have a ticket but many on our coach didn't, but still got in, a lot of them had a square off with some Everton fans.  Also arrived late at the turnstiles.  

 

That was normal in those days.  For me the disaster for what ever reason was just waiting to happen.  It could have happened that day at Villa, ask any Wednesday fan how packed the Holt End was that day, I spent much of the time just trying to stay on my feet.

 

New fans have little concept how bad many grounds were in those days nor do they realise the problem of hooliganism.  The authorities were constantly pressurised into making more draconian measures to combat the problem, by the use of fencing, aggressive policing.  Only a very few spoke out against these measures and they weren't listen to.  

 

Going to the football nowadays is more akin going to the cinema especially at the new build grounds. 

 

Many of us share some responsibility for the disaster due to our behaviour.  

 

Bingo 

[Paolo Di Catio]

1 hour ago, rickygoo said:

You said he chaired the inquest "near Liverpool". He didn't. That was the coroner John Goldring. 

 Was the Bishop Of Liverpool on the inquest ?

 

[southportdc]

14 minutes ago, coopswfc76 said:

 

Err yes all big games had fans turn up pissed & ticketless to think otherwise is madness.

Unfortunately with hindsight it's clear something like Hillsborough was going to happen eventually.

How old are you southportdc?

 

So why did Hillsborough happen that day and that place rather than somewhere else? What caused it?

[southportdc]

14 minutes ago, Holmes said:

 

 

I went to the Semi final match at Villa Park was very drunk probably obnoxious, I did have a ticket but many on our coach didn't, but still got in, a lot of them had a square off with some Everton fans.  Also arrived late at the turnstiles.  

 

That was normal in those days.  For me the disaster for what ever reason was just waiting to happen.  It could have happened that day at Villa, ask any Wednesday fan how packed the Holt End was that day, I spent much of the time just trying to stay on my feet.

 

New fans have little concept how bad many grounds were in those days nor do they realise the problem of hooliganism.  The authorities were constantly pressurised into making more draconian measures to combat the problem, by the use of fencing, aggressive policing.  Only a very few spoke out against these measures and they weren't listen to.  

 

Going to the football nowadays is more akin going to the cinema especially at the new build grounds. 

 

Many of us share some responsibility for the disaster due to our behaviour.  

 

Oh so new stadium design makes drinking at games safe?

[Paolo Di Catio]

6 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

So why did Hillsborough happen that day and that place rather than somewhere else? What caused it?

 

Liverpool fans