DJMortimer Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Should never have been sacked !!! Ah, it's been a while since this myth got an airing. For a couple of seasons, Francis built on what he'd inherited and had us on the verge of the biggest prizes in the country. Unfortunately, we stumbled just short of the finishing line. But then it started to disintegrate. Whereas he had earlier brought in the likes of Warhurst, Walker and Bright who improved the side, his signings steadily got worse. Players like Coleman, Nolan and Pearce came in. Respect between the squad and the manager steadily evaporated to the point where it was being openly discussed in the media due to deliberate leaks from within the dressing room. Towards the end of 1994/5, large numbers of supporters were calling for his sacking almost every week. But most importantly, performances and results also declined. People keep ignoring that we went into the final game of that season still not mathematically safe from relegation having won just 2 of our last 14 games (one of those against the team next to bottom in the division) and had failed to score in the previous 4. Fortunately, we were at home to the team that finished rock bottom and were able to preserve our status without relying on other results. How many negatives, some of them long term ones, do you need before making a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage owl Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Ah, it's been a while since this myth got an airing. For a couple of seasons, Francis built on what he'd inherited and had us on the verge of the biggest prizes in the country. Unfortunately, we stumbled just short of the finishing line. But then it started to disintegrate. Whereas he had earlier brought in the likes of Warhurst, Walker and Bright who improved the side, his signings steadily got worse. Players like Coleman, Nolan and Pearce came in. Respect between the squad and the manager steadily evaporated to the point where it was being openly discussed in the media due to deliberate leaks from within the dressing room. Towards the end of 1994/5, large numbers of supporters were calling for his sacking almost every week. But most importantly, performances and results also declined. People keep ignoring that we went into the final game of that season still not mathematically safe from relegation having won just 2 of our last 14 games (one of those against the team next to bottom in the division) and had failed to score in the previous 4. Fortunately, we were at home to the team that finished rock bottom and were able to preserve our status without relying on other results. How many negatives, some of them long term ones, do you need before making a change? Good job things improved so drastically and consistently afterwards wasn't it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W H I T E Y Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 As an outside observer, and at that time growing up with mainly Wednesday supporting mates, I can't believe any Wednesdayite would have a bad word for Francis. Criticism of how it unravelled, aye. But surely, that period of time for Wednesday was as good as it gets, and the sort of period you'd give your left arm for now..? I never liked Dave Bassett, obviously. I couldn't believe we appointed him. But his first season in charge he had us playing the best football I've ever seen. Admittedly, the likes of Hignett, Barnard, Dyer etc were already here, but he was the manager during a season where we scored over 100 goals and made it to Wembley. Aye, he was profiting somewhat from work already done by Wilson and Hendrie (harshly sacked) but his signing of Shipperley was the missing piece in the jigsaw. Probably similar to Francis in terms of him bringing Bright in at Wednesday. I was a young teen in that relative 'glory' era for Wednesday and I saw you lot as the biggest club after Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. You'd have to be a mentalist to see Francis as anything but a positive figure in the history of Sheffield Wednesday. But Neil loves traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage owl Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 As an outside observer, and at that time growing up with mainly Wednesday supporting mates, I can't believe any Wednesdayite would have a bad word for Francis. Criticism of how it unravelled, aye. But surely, that period of time for Wednesday was as good as it gets, and the sort of period you'd give your left arm for now..? I never liked Dave Bassett, obviously. I couldn't believe we appointed him. But his first season in charge he had us playing the best football I've ever seen. Admittedly, the likes of Hignett, Barnard, Dyer etc were already here, but he was the manager during a season where we scored over 100 goals and made it to Wembley. Aye, he was profiting somewhat from work already done by Wilson and Hendrie (harshly sacked) but his signing of Shipperley was the missing piece in the jigsaw. Probably similar to Francis in terms of him bringing Bright in at Wednesday. I was a young teen in that relative 'glory' era for Wednesday and I saw you lot as the biggest club after Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. You'd have to be a mentalist to see Francis as anything but a positive figure in the history of Sheffield Wednesday. But Neil loves traffic. Neil probably had a bet with someone that he could entice DJ Mortimer back at the first time of asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W H I T E Y Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Neil probably had a bet with someone that he could entice DJ Mortimer back at the first time of asking Has he left then? I'm struggling to keep up lately, so many flounces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themaskedowl Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 NEIL!! ffs. "It's could be..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james o connor Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I wonder if people calling Francis sh!te are the same who adore Megson? That would be ironic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cersei Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Ah, it's been a while since this myth got an airing. For a couple of seasons, Francis built on what he'd inherited and had us on the verge of the biggest prizes in the country. Unfortunately, we stumbled just short of the finishing line. But then it started to disintegrate. Whereas he had earlier brought in the likes of Warhurst, Walker and Bright who improved the side, his signings steadily got worse. Players like Coleman, Nolan and Pearce came in. Respect between the squad and the manager steadily evaporated to the point where it was being openly discussed in the media due to deliberate leaks from within the dressing room. Towards the end of 1994/5, large numbers of supporters were calling for his sacking almost every week. But most importantly, performances and results also declined. People keep ignoring that we went into the final game of that season still not mathematically safe from relegation having won just 2 of our last 14 games (one of those against the team next to bottom in the division) and had failed to score in the previous 4. Fortunately, we were at home to the team that finished rock bottom and were able to preserve our status without relying on other results. How many negatives, some of them long term ones, do you need before making a change? Ipswich, we scored 4. Whittingham, Bart 2 and bright. It was my 9th birthday. Got to my mates after and we had gone flying up the table to 13th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The team got worse every single season Francis was in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I wonder if people calling Francis sh!te are the same who adore Megson? That would be ironic In my case it is - for a very simple reason. Francis made the team worse than when he started. Megson made it better than when he started. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Such geniuses they only finished 3rd in Div two in 1991. In any other season they wouldn't have gone up- it would have just been the play-offs. . And won our only major trophy in the last 78 years.We even played the kids away v Oldham on the last match. Edited June 18, 2015 by HirstWhoScoredIt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james o connor Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 In my case it is - for a very simple reason. Francis made the team worse than when he started. Megson made it better than when he started. Simples. Not really . Megson had one of the biggest budgets in the league and by Christmas had been found out. We would still be in the 3rd division now if he was in charge. Francis was taking us to Wembley in the top flight, completely different situations There are plenty worse managers since trev Megson just being one of them Simples ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzOwl Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 NEIL!! ffs. "It's could be..." i'm staggered it took so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Those first two season Francis was in charge was the best football I have ever seen Wednesday play. That night at Blackburn where we wiped the floor with them was fantastic. If Francis ever came back he deserves a standing ovation from the crowd for his part in Wednesdays best ever team in living memory. However when he did get the push I can not argue that is was undeserved. That last season was very stale and was clear he had lost the respect of the players and some performances were alarming with where we were a couple of seasons before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 In my case it is - for a very simple reason. Francis made the team worse than when he started. Megson made it better than when he started. Simples. Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HirstWhoScoredIt Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Not really . Megson had one of the biggest budgets in the league and by Christmas had been found out. We would still be in the 3rd division now if he was in charge. Francis was taking us to Wembley in the top flight, completely different situations There are plenty worse managers since trev Megson just being one of them Simples ? Not really. I don't even understand what point you are trying to make. And that is one mighty big assumption about Megson. My 'assumption' is that we would still have got promoted that year but its a pointless argument as its opinion. The team got worse under Francis and better under Megson. Both of them had one of the biggest budgets in the division. A fact often overlooked about Francis but proven in a very interesting book about finances in The PL (the name escapes me but I will dig it out) that showed that Wednesday were consistently one of the biggest spenders. Culminating in us being relegated with the 7th highest budget in the PL (only Leeds and Newcastle have got relegated more spectacularly in the history of the PL). Admittedly, it would be harsh to attach much blame to Francis for this but regardless it illustrates my point. The best way to judge a manager is starting point v exit point. Hence why Warnock is so highly rated - always left a club in a better position than when he took over. If Alan Irvine was made manager of Chelsea, they would almost certainly come in the top 2 next season and will have a good chance of winning a cup. Would that make him a good manager? Regardless of any of the above I know things that stats can't tell you. I know that he made some very good signings in Walker, Bright and Waddle but that mainly his recruitment (mainly post cup finals) was horrendous. it was the start of the decline. Atherton for Nilsson! Pearce for Pearson! Nolan for Worthington! Whittingham for whoever you care to mention! Ingesson for Palmer! Andy Sinton! Bought quality in Petrescu and Taylor but failed to utilise them correctly so they quickly left to have very successful careers elsewhere. He replaced sheer quality with Mr Average and you can come up with all the clever comments you want but he started the decline and c0cked up the best chance we ever had to be one of the truly top clubs. Pleat continued the decline and then Wilson well and truly hammered the nail home. During my lifetime the best managers were Charlton, Wilkinson, Atkinson, Sturrock, Megson and Gray. They are the only ones to leave us in a healthier state than when they took over. Edited June 18, 2015 by HirstWhoScoredIt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since59owe Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 'Please don't call me arrogant.... I am the special one' 'If I wanted to have an easy job I would have stayed at Besiktas. Beautiful black chair, the Championship, God, and after God, me'. Mourinho mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdmfournil Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The final nail in the coffin for Francis was when he was interviewed and stated "i am not here to please the fans" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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