owlcity81 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I rated him before we got him just injurys were the worry but so far not really had any during the season, now us conceding so many goals I put down to defending badly and not his fault but I saw this stat that made think is there more to it. 17 other keepers have faced more shots at them than Kirkland in this league this season but only 2 have conceded more goals, this was before last nights game, So is Kirkland struggling or have teams been more clinical finishing against us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee A Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 If you look back at every game, apart from Tonge for Leeds and I think Trotter for Millwall, all of the goals have been scored from about 6 yards out, with Kirkland a stranded spectator, because teams are just cutting through us like butter, as highlighted last night when that Chelsea lad walked though about 6 of ours before Kirkland managed to block him. Its the amateurish defending for me, Kirkland cant be held responsible for not saving point blank shots every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townend_owl Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yeah it's the type of chances we're conceding. Teams are getting clear cut chances against us every game which can't be said against other teams. I can't remember a goal he was to blame for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The goalkeeper is only a small cog in the machine. If a great one plays in a crap team he will concede plenty, if a bad one plays in a quality team he will let in much fewer than might otherwise be the case. Statistics are meaningless without context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hack-Abusi Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 nothing in front of him ... how many times have teams waltzed past our defenders or carved us open with killer balls f*cking joke look at Mchrechrannnnnn (sp?) doing a merry dance around 4-5 defenders yesterday garbage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan27 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yeah as DJ said stats can be meaningless. One keeper can face 10 shots at him that are all weak efforts from outside the penalty area. The other can face 10 shots all fired in from close range. Doesn't prove anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 How many goals that we've conceded this season can you really look at and say "that was Kirkland's fault"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) A keeper can only do so much. Our defending is comical at times. Kirkland did well to deny McEachran, where 3 or 4 of our defenders could not. He also did well to tip that early corner over the bar - it was going in near post. I did wonder if maybe he could have intervened for the second goal when he came to try and smother - but they bowled straight through the heart of our defence after Llera gave the ball away cheaply... Edited November 10, 2012 by wilyfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goh Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 We aren't conceeding loads of chances...we are just conceeding god awful chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I rated him before we got him just injurys were the worry but so far not really had any during the season, now us conceding so many goals I put down to defending badly and not his fault but I saw this stat that made think is there more to it. 17 other keepers have faced more shots at them than Kirkland in this league this season but only 2 have conceded more goals, this was before last nights game, So is Kirkland struggling or have teams been more clinical finishing against us? we have a pisspoor defence... come to think of it, we have a pisspoor midfield, and attack to go with it... we need to tighten up, become competitive all around the field of play, and carry a threat up front... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 He's also pulled off some reyt saves, which has saved us from some embarrassing score lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattitheowl Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 As stated already, we have conceded mostly tap ins this season. You can't really blame Kirkland for that. I can't think of one goal that I have seen that I have though "he should have done better there". Just not bothered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfmanjack Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 If you look back at every game, apart from Tonge for Leeds and I think Trotter for Millwall, all of the goals have been scored from about 6 yards out, with Kirkland a stranded spectator, because teams are just cutting through us like butter, as highlighted last night when that Chelsea lad walked though about 6 of ours before Kirkland managed to block him. Its the amateurish defending for me, Kirkland cant be held responsible for not saving point blank shots every week. I negged that, sorry. I thought I'd scrolled back to the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfmanjack Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I rated him before we got him just injurys were the worry but so far not really had any during the season, now us conceding so many goals I put down to defending badly and not his fault but I saw this stat that made think is there more to it. 17 other keepers have faced more shots at them than Kirkland in this league this season but only 2 have conceded more goals, this was before last nights game, So is Kirkland struggling or have teams been more clinical finishing against us? There are enough members of this forum who are old enough to remember Gary Sprake, who is one of the most inept keepers to play in English football in the past fifty years. He was however, the keeper of choice for Don Revie at Leeds United when Leeds were the best team in England, and he played behind one of the most organised, disciplined defences in the country. When called upon he was shabby at best and appalling at worst. There's even an instance which is probably on Youtube where he threw the ball into his own net in front of the Kop at Liverpool. My point is, Sprake was rubbish but played behind a superb defence, and conversely Kirkland is a good keeper who is playing behind a very poor defence. Against Blackpool and last night, Llera showed why he never got a game for Blackpool, and Daniel Jones is just a joke, in fact I'd say that if Mattock cannot get into the first team in preference to Jones he shouldn't be at the club. We're all waiting for Reda to return to fitness, but he's no better a defender than any of the others, his one redeeming feature being the fact that he chips in with goals. Gardner is average but last night looked very weak, and Buxton although great going foward is a poor example of a full back at this level. I criticised Semedo for not stepping up a level, earlier in the season, but he HAS stepped up to the mark in the past few weeks and is the only midfield player demonstrating fighting qualities. Barkley and McCabe may have skill in abundance, but defensively they are very poor. I actually think that Corry could develop into a more complete midfield player than either of those two, but having come from the Irish league, it's going to take time for him to fully adapt. To start criticising Kirkland when he's playing behind a non existent defence is totally unfair, to Kirkland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee A Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) I negged that, sorry. I thought I'd scrolled back to the first post. Not to worry sir, but IOU one ill deserved neg Edited November 10, 2012 by Lee A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 the thing to look at is how many goals have been kirkland's fault .one possibly 2 at the most. think of all our problems kirkland isnt one of them . .........................very harsh on gary sprake wolfie ,he must have been doing summat right to play at the top for so long though like you say he prone to odd gaff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest waistline ye diddle Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 He didn't have a chance with any of the three last night. Did his job well. Kirkland isn't the problem. A series of mistakes lead to goals. We made some silly mistakes and got punished pretty much each time. They made some silly mistakes, especially before they scored and we didn't punish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livesey4917 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I was having this conversation this morning with a fellow owl, the thing is its not just about shot stopping, a goalkeeper needs to do more than stop shots. Is he commanding his area and rollocking the defence when needed, on last nights evidence i would say not, I know from playing myself as a keeper in a decent league that if a team were such a constant threat as they were last night I would not have stopped screaming at the defenders and midfielders. just my opinion and one im sure some will agree with and some will disagree with. Just to be clear i do think he is a good goalkeeper but not a commanding keeper that we maybe need at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest waistline ye diddle Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I saw him giving bothroyd a talking to when he had a sulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The discussion last season was that weaver was a better shot stopperbut bywater was a better organiser maybe we sill have the s ame promble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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