owls66 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Wednesday is my religion. Hillsborough is my church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davet30 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Religion has its part in all of society from the justice system through to government. So it does but that doesn't make it right. True that. Personally I have no time for religion at all, never will have, but I have no problem with those who do believe and practice their religion. As long as it is never forced down my throat, which this isn't, a Wednesday player took part in something which is important to him, and the club reported it, I would deem that newsworthy. I agree totally. I raised the question why religion has to be 'brought into the game' in the first place. Like I said Religion won't sort out the racist thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 people believe what they want to believe, having been force fed christianity from a young age tbh i don't believe a word of it ,but if others believe that is there right i wouldn't push my beliefs onto others and i expect the same respect back , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FanthamOfTheOpera Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I am a season ticket holder and also go to every away game. I am a Christian and also a full time vicar. To be a Wednesdayite requires an awful lot of faith! To be honest I'm surprised posting on this forum hasn't destroyed your faith in God, or at least intelligent design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeton Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 So it does but that doesn't make it right. If everyone else believed in a religion but you were the only one who didn't would it still not be right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dore Owl Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It's that bloody club chaplain... up to no good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Same as OP, I'm an admirer of Science. If I were to put my ''religious'' beliefs into a sect, it would be Pantheism, I'm a universe guy. But way higher than that, with much more conviction and faith, I'm a Wednesdayite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 ...It makes you wonder doesn't it but the difference between you and I is I think 'what a brilliant vastness of scientific creation, where you seam to think "just imaging that a supreme being may have created all this". Well that may be your belief Dj but it ain't mine and I have just a right as any man to have his opinion ]You are capably demonstrating the hypocrisy of athiest zealots who fail to see the similarity between themselves and religious zealous. That's why I'm neither. You also seem desperate to put me unequivocally in one camp or the other to satisfy your definitely right / definitely wrong duality. I have not in any way tried to deny your right to an opinion, I just find it lacks wonder and imagination on a scale I can't put into words. If you are prepared to look there is plentiful evidence to suggest the possibility (emphasised to penetrate your ultra defensive posture) of something much greater than ourselves but this is not really the place for a lengthy theological debate, especially with someone who seems to want absolute proof on a platter which of course no one can provide. Hmm the word Might just may be key here. Not really. The universe is so vast and so complex, and we are so infinitessimally insignificant, I find it absolutely staggering that anyone would find the tiniest shred of credibility in glibly suggesting we were close to comprehending all of it. Why is there this compulsion for some people to have definite opinions, even when there are such huge gaps in the knowledge necessary for doing so? It's like a thread from a couple of weeks ago when a couple of posters were about ready to have nervous breakdowns when I refused to speculate on when Dave Jones might get sacked on the basis that it would be little more than guesswork. But my use of words like 'might' is rather revealing when compared to your blustering, pigeon-holing and stereotyping throughout this thread. But you suggest that there may be one which just sound stupid to me. I'm a simple human who relies on facts and proof not a collection of stories twisted and changed through time. As I said, I'm not especially religious so patronising scripture won't have much effect on me. And you don't do yourself many favours by suggesting that being open-minded sounds 'stupid' as a preference to ignorant dogma, prejudice and assumption. Now who's being arrogant? You know this for a fact do you or is it just another of one of you opinions? Like I said I deal with facts and proof so, lets see yours. Having an opinion about someone's character is 'arrogant'? That's the end of this forum then. The man has arrived at a definite conclusion on perhaps the biggest question of mankind's imagination, one that we are nowhere close to answering beyond doubt? I'd say that's pretty arrogant, yes. Your demand for proof expediently facilitates you staying in your cosy armchair. You know there is no such thing so there is no need for you to subsequently open your mind. I could throw it right back at you though. Prove there is no creator. You see the problem? Your aggression is rather unnecessary anyway. I haven't said that there is a God, only that it is ridiculous to blindly conclude that there isn't. There is not compelling evidence for either position, so the only sensible option is to sit in the middle and await developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeton Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Also, isn't science just a collection of theory's waiting to be debunked by the next 99.99999999% plausible one? By the way, I am in no way tipped between either being a believer in a god or science as being the answer, at the end of the day I will believe in what ever gets the 3 points in the next match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I have and I'm not It wasn't directed at you Davet. I was just making a general comment. Edited October 23, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlfandbg Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 If everyone else believed in a religion but you were the only one who didn't would it still not be right? If everyone in the world believed in Sheff Utd (preposterous I know!) that would still not make them right. When the whole world 'believed' in flat earth they were not right. If people want to use religion in aspects of their life let them. I personally think it has no positive part to play in my life but it's all opinion after all and if some can use it in a good way then let them be as long as they let you be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosbyKitchens Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 In the context of religion .. no I don't think it has. If players wish to believe in religion then that's fine with me AND if it gives them the humph needed to do their best then all the better. Me, being immature 'n' all that, don't need such a crutch! My objection is with it being brought into the football arena when there is no need whatsoever. We should be concentrating on stamping out racism and if you think region is going to help with that then you are deluded. I think faith and religion are two separate things in this context.I would agree that religion has no place in sport. Faith does as that is the personal belief of the individual. If you don't need that fine, but you shouldn't knock others who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookesowl Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Faith is important in life and in sport. Can't see the problem, if I'm honest. The atheist who argues against religion is just the same as the priest preaching to the non-believer. Find your own way in life and don't knock how others find theirs. Amen indeed. What really fecks me off at the moment is the religion bashing atheists trying to preach their beliefs to us all. Everyone has a right to have a faith / religion and the whilst the club has players and staff with religious views it is perfectly acceptable for the club to be carrying out events like this. Its not as if we are talking about extremist fundamentalists talking in a forum at Hillsborough is it? The OP needs to wake up to the fact that religion IS a big part of many players and supporters lives and this initiative can only be positive for those with an interest. flipping science preaching religion bashing atheists... Do my head in. That Tim Minchin n'all, what a nobber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlfandbg Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Amen indeed. What really fecks me off at the moment is the religion bashing atheists trying to preach their beliefs to us all. Everyone has a right to have a faith / religion and the whilst the club has players and staff with religious views it is perfectly acceptable for the club to be carrying out events like this. Its not as if we are talking about extremist fundamentalists talking in a forum at Hillsborough is it? The OP needs to wake up to the fact that religion IS a big part of many players and supporters lives and this initiative can only be positive for those with an interest. flipping science preaching religion bashing atheists... Do my head in. That Tim Minchin n'all, what a nobber. sir, you miss the point of an atheist - I do not 'believe' in anything. atheism is not a belief . science is not an alternative to religion - just a fact gathering activity. footballers can believe what they want - go to churches etc. I think the OP just doesn't see religion and football as obvious bedfellows . I don't either but it's not something that really bothers me have a good one. uto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 sir, you miss the point of an atheist - I do not 'believe' in anything. atheism is not a belief . science is not an alternative to religion - just a fact gathering activity. footballers can believe what they want - go to churches etc. I think the OP just doesn't see religion and football as obvious bedfellows . I don't either but it's not something that really bothers me have a good one. uto Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Atheism is the belief that there is no God. I don't think you can really categorise atheists like that. When someone states that they are a theist, it could mean an infinite amount of things so it would be wrong to make assumptions about atheists, no? For me your statement is incorrect because it is not a case of believing that there is no god, because it is impossible to believe in something that doesn't exist. The concept of 'belief' is still based in faith but to me atheism is not based in faith but in logic and evidence. The only reason atheism exists is because of religion. Without religion atheism would be nothing, because it is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 When you think about the mind-numbing vastness of the universe, both larger and smaller than us, all the wondrous miracles that unfold within it, and our inconsequential status against such an awesome backdrop, to state definitively that there is no higher power might be the single most arrogant statement it is possible to make. Richard Dawkins might be an intelligent man by any academic measure, but in this regard he is one of the biggest simpletons imaginable... and utterly obnoxious in his pomposity to boot. And before you make your obvious assumptions, no, I'm not especially devoted to any of the major organised religions either. I don't think Dawkins has ever stated definitively that there is no higher power though. He acknowledges that he (or anyone else) can't know such a thing for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimbob Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I note in the OS this entry ... http://www.swfc.co.uk/news/article/faith-in-football-441453.aspx Now, I'm an atheist and so I'd like to know why faith has anything to do with sport of any kind?? If I have a religion then it's wednesdayiteism I'm a man of science and I find it difficult to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden just as I find it difficult to believe in some Ultra being who had supposed to have made the earth in 6 days? OK if Semedo is a catholic (I guess), that's down to him but I can't understand why on earth faith is being brought into the equation? Why wouldn't it be brought into the equation? Anymore than it should be left out because that suits your beliefs. Think there's room for everyone to express themselves isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) I don't think Dawkins has ever stated definitively that there is no higher power though. He acknowledges that he (or anyone else) can't know such a thing for certain. I haven't studied his work too closely but I was aware of him countless times stating quite unequivocally that there was absolutely no God (I've seen him do so agin in a trailer for a TV programme just this week). And he seemed to take delight in doing so as much for the purposes of annoying the religious as much as it having anything to do with scientific method. But having researched a little more closely, you are quite right that he has been a little more specific at times and admitted he can't be sure. That's a rather more sensible position to take and one I'm certainly not going to argue with. Taking the Doubting Thomas approach of requiring proof is perfectly reasonable as a principle, although in this particular case I think it may be chosen for the purposes of comfort as much as anything else. I still find Dawkins' manner deeply unlikeable though. Edited October 24, 2012 by DJMortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davet30 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 If everyone else believed in a religion but you were the only one who didn't would it still not be right? I'll answer that when it's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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