Beholder Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I don't think you can really categorise atheists like that. When someone states that they are a theist, it could mean an infinite amount of things so it would be wrong to make assumptions about atheists, no? For me your statement is incorrect because it is not a case of believing that there is no god, because it is impossible to believe in something that doesn't exist. The concept of 'belief' is still based in faith but to me atheism is not based in faith but in logic and evidence. The only reason atheism exists is because of religion. Without religion atheism would be nothing, because it is nothing. Interesting. Logic and evidence are also based in faith aswell. They are based in the faith that we can be fully objective, I agree that atheism would not exist without religion. Or to put it differently, the negation of the idea would not arise without there being first an idea to negate. But that in itself bases itself on the premise that God is an idea. Many people of faith would argue that God is not an idea and it is impossible to talk of God. The Absolute cannot be contained within a word because the Absolute cannot be conceptualized. Words are concepts but before the human mind could start labeling everything what was there? Any answer you give is another label. All an atheist can argue against is a concept. They can only really take on those that believe in a god that has certain qualities and can be quantified. In effect, all atheists argue against is themselves. They invent the concept that they can negate. It is easy to do that-it happens on here all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlertonian Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Semedo's faith is what makes him the man he is. People love him as he is, on and off the pitch. So clearly his faith has a big part to play for him in football. While not everyone may believe in God, there's no denying that having Revd. Pete around the place has a positive effect on the playing squad, the youngsters and everyone from the cleaners to the ticket office up to MM. If it didn't I'm sure Milan would tell him to clear off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnbloodaxe Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) Errr first of all get off your high horse I regularly check the OS for ANY information and have reported the latest news here as I have done with other breaking stories in the past. I comment, just has others do, with my opinion as this is still a free democracy! See my earlier response. I don't disagree with equality statements OR stamping out racism but ... faith has no place in sport - I assume my comments have touched a raw nerve with yourself. Look at Neil he is obviously not a follower of christ he is obviously a follower of Hari Krishna,,, the blue bra section rather than the orange robe one... It's bloody obvious... Edited October 24, 2012 by Johnbloodaxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Look at Neil he is obviously not a follower of christ he is obviously a follower of Hari Krishna,,, the blue bra section rather than the orange robe one... It's bloody obvious... Boooooooooooooooo........ Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnbloodaxe Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Is there any need though for "faith in football" or sport even Football players are doing a job of work "Faith in banking" "faith in check out operating" just get on with your beliefs and everyone else will get on with theirs It is a reaction to the worry that they have that football is more of a mass religion than christianity and so have to get a presence in there.. The problem is shopping and mass consumerism is becoming more of a religion than either christianity or football.. which is why the shopping malls now have a local vicar now too... I find it facinating how religions react to changes in society eithe rtrying to go with the flow and fit in somewhere or completely rebuffing and decrying modern life... I will convert on my deathbed if I get the chance just in case... an each way bet. I am currently a strong atheist with humanitarian leanings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Religion has a MASSIVEly negative effect on Football. Look at the Old Firm, Catholics v Protestants My guess is that none of these fans even practice their respective religions. I'd go as far as thinking none of them know the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism in the first place. All in all, it's used as a petty excuse for segregation and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I note in the OS this entry ... http://www.swfc.co.u...all-441453.aspx Now, I'm an atheist and so I'd like to know why faith has anything to do with sport of any kind?? If I have a religion then it's wednesdayiteism I'm a man of science and I find it difficult to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden just as I find it difficult to believe in some Ultra being who had supposed to have made the earth in 6 days? OK if Semedo is a catholic (I guess), that's down to him but I can't understand why on earth faith is being brought into the equation? we've some fairies at work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Banno's Wedge Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Why in life is the Anti Zealot more zealous than anyone and the Anti Fascist more of a Fascist than anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davet30 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The OP needs to wake up to the fact that religion IS a big part of many players and supporters lives and this initiative can only be positive for those with an interest. flipping science preaching religion bashing atheists... Do my head in. That Tim Minchin n'all, what a nobber. Bible basher eh? well thats just the response I'd expect from such a knob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greeton Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Are we at war yet? Thought this would be at least 5 pages long by now. :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Have to agree with Beholder and DJM that 'God' is just a label we apply to what is utterly beyond our comprehension; and in merely contradicting the label, we are not adding anything to the sum of human knowledge. Also agree that scientism is itself a belief system. Scientific method is based on making predictions about future events from past experience, and since we can never be certain that the future will behave as the past has, all scientific reasoning is contingent at best. The problem with someone like Dawkins is that he introduces a reductionist agenda, which privileges the natural sciences as a methodological ideal for all other study. To assume that the categories of current western epistemology, eg. data, evidence, verification, method, are adequate for interpreting spirituality, is to prejudice the results before you even start. Not very scientific. By way of contrast, traditional apophatic mysticism and philosophy have always spoken of religious life as a path of unknowing. The further you go, the more fully you realise that your concepts are meaningless. Sonny has it the wrong way round for once; it is, ironically, the atheists who think they 'know' about God, and the 'believers' who realise they don't. The OP can only express the opinion he does, that religion has no place in sport, on the basis of his, again ironically unscientific, faith in atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 That might be the best post in the history of this forum. I think I'm in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheDogTheOwl Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 needs more James O'Connor but you aren't far off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Faith is important in life and in sport. Can't see the problem, if I'm honest. The atheist who argues against religion is just the same as the priest preaching to the non-believer. Find your own way in life and don't knock how others find theirs. Nice way of putting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davet30 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 That might be the best post in the history of this forum. I think I'm in love. interesting I must admit. I never knew my opening comments would bring out such literal comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davet30 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Have to agree with Beholder and DJM that 'God' is just a label we apply to what is utterly beyond our comprehension; and in merely contradicting the label, we are not adding anything to the sum of human knowledge. Also agree that scientism is itself a belief system. Scientific method is based on making predictions about future events from past experience, and since we can never be certain that the future will behave as the past has, all scientific reasoning is contingent at best. The problem with someone like Dawkins is that he introduces a reductionist agenda, which privileges the natural sciences as a methodological ideal for all other study. To assume that the categories of current western epistemology, eg. data, evidence, verification, method, are adequate for interpreting spirituality, is to prejudice the results before you even start. Not very scientific. By way of contrast, traditional apophatic mysticism and philosophy have always spoken of religious life as a path of unknowing. The further you go, the more fully you realise that your concepts are meaningless. Sonny has it the wrong way round for once; it is, ironically, the atheists who think they 'know' about God, and the 'believers' who realise they don't. The OP can only express the opinion he does, that religion has no place in sport, on the basis of his, again ironically unscientific, faith in atheism. I can't be bothered to pull a dictionary here to check your response but I think the word atheism means "the rejection of a belief of a God" rather than a faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Religion should never, ever be involved in football. Faith in football is on a different scale than faith in religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 tbh we need a great big dollop of faith at the moment because nowt else is happening , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Guns Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I can't stop thinking about boobies at the minit me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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