We are not a good investment.

[ajm]

Occupancy rates & selling prices are completely different to fixed costs.

The copthorn selling x number of rooms at £55 or whatever gives you total 'income'

Each room costs a certain amount to maintain and run - staffing for cleaners, lights, heating all fixed overheads.

So even if you are SELLING rooms at £55 each you have to take out the fixed & variable costs of running the hotel.

Just 'selling' room for £55 doesn't mean its all 'profit'.

Darren was quite correct in his interpretation of rooms & total income via sales figures, i've never said he wasn't.

I've said he has missed out on the fixed & Variable costs of running the hotel.

Included in these costs is the £23 Milllion construction loan that costs £4 Million a year to service the debt on.

Even the 'repar' figures quoted by darren don't take into account the costs of running the hotel, just the 'revenue' per room. Not any costs associated with that revenue

Ok Mickybb. Lets take your own figures as an example

even @ £50 per night = 150 rooms x 7 nights per week

with me so far???

equals £2.5m per annum revenue without any COSTS associated with that revenue.

Lets take take an example that a hotel room costs £5 to maintain, clean it light it etc/

That gives you fixed costs of running a hotel of £273,000.

Plus 'others' lets say the hotel costs half a million a year to run.

given your OWN figures that leaves a potential operating profit of 'just' two million a year.

How much does the £25 million construction debt cost per annum to service ?

Isn't the cost of servicing that debt £4-5 Million p/a far higher than the profits that the hotel can make ?

Meaning that the hotel will be operating at a continuous loss, and will have to have constant support from the football club ?

Thats based on your own figures by the way !

But the £23 milllion construction debt against the hotel doesn't count as its a 'mortgage' against an asset - the hotel.

But according to your OWN figures the hotel will NEVER make enough money to service its mortgage debt, never mind paying it off.

Meaning that the football will have to find £2 Million a year + to cover the costs associated with your HOTEL !

Damn, I knew we should have built a Gastro-pub.........

Edited February 19, 2010 by ajm

[darra]

Occupancy rates & selling prices are completely different to fixed costs.

The copthorn selling x number of rooms at £55 or whatever gives you total 'income'

Each room costs a certain amount to maintain and run - staffing for cleaners, lights, heating all fixed overheads.

So even if you are SELLING rooms at £55 each you have to take out the fixed & variable costs of running the hotel.

Just 'selling' room for £55 doesn't mean its all 'profit'.

Darren was quite correct in his interpretation of rooms & total income via sales figures, i've never said he wasn't.

I've said he has missed out on the fixed & Variable costs of running the hotel.

Included in these costs is the £23 Milllion construction loan that costs £4 Million a year to service the debt on.

Even the 'repar' figures quoted by darren don't take into account the costs of running the hotel, just the 'revenue' per room. Not any costs associated with that revenue

Ok Mickybb. Lets take your own figures as an example

even @ £50 per night = 150 rooms x 7 nights per week

with me so far???

equals £2.5m per annum revenue without any COSTS associated with that revenue.

Lets take take an example that a hotel room costs £5 to maintain, clean it light it etc/

That gives you fixed costs of running a hotel of £273,000.

Plus 'others' lets say the hotel costs half a million a year to run.

given your OWN figures that leaves a potential operating profit of 'just' two million a year.

How much does the £25 million construction debt cost per annum to service ?

Isn't the cost of servicing that debt £4-5 Million p/a far higher than the profits that the hotel can make ?

Meaning that the hotel will be operating at a continuous loss, and will have to have constant support from the football club ?

Thats based on your own figures by the way !

But the £23 milllion construction debt against the hotel doesn't count as its a 'mortgage' against an asset - the hotel.

But according to your OWN figures the hotel will NEVER make enough money to service its mortgage debt, never mind paying it off.

Meaning that the football will have to find £2 Million a year + to cover the costs associated with your HOTEL !

I presume by Darren you mean me From the site I found it quoted room rates of £64 and a revpar of £22 which I found surprising but it was due to occupancy rates. From my figures (by no means an expert) the hotel will be lucky to generate 300k profit/year Edited February 19, 2010 by darra

[The Batman]

It may be, but it's called backing your arguments up with facts

I know mate, was just kidding. No offence.

[DJMortimer]

ok here goes.......

* Falling pay on gate fans (lowest in quite a few years in last couple of matches I believe)

* Loss making hotel, which is a club funded project, so the financial impact is real and is included in accounts

* Debts (maybe on Mccabes shoulders) but still debts that need re-paying

* All playing assets sold and replaced with gash (or loan players who are not yours)

* Lack of grant to improve stadium (due to loss of *cough* world cup bid)

* Rest of Tevez money in doubt if new West Ham owners get their way

* growing unrest in the manager and playing style

* Oh and Ryan France............ how's he getting on ?

And don't forget that McCabe's loans come at a jaw-dropping 10% interest rate too. So there's only one direction the amount due to him is going to go.

MickeyBB, where are you going to get the cash from to buy players now mcabe has said he's not putting any more family money in? Its either sell players to cover costs or rely on other incomes. The hotel loses money, chengdu and the Hungarian(?) team aren't turning a profit and its been documented that we take more matchday revenue on smaller crowds. So either your prices are going up or freebies are being cut to watch players of a similar standard to now or you're selling your current players to be replaced by cheaper ones. It seems that many blades fans aren't happy with the current crop. Listen to the phoneins for that point of view.

Now, I know Brian talks cack on RS, but he's my barometer of fickleness. He bought a season ticket when you went up and to his credit has renewed each season since I think. How long before he's on saying he's not renewing do you think? And he wont be alone if the freebies dry up. I know a fair few that wont renew if they have to pay for the kids. A few that wont cos you're only just outside the playofffs.

Your period of dominance in the city is coming to an end. You managed 1 season in the top flight and are now saddled with 48 million pounds of debt and a shortfall each year that can only be covered by selling players. Your team is full of loans, and I mean full. Entire back 5 the other day wasnt it? No money to be made there. Cheddars could be sold but he's hardly set the world on fire has he? Billy blunt will get you a few quid but you've not cashed in yet. Why is that by the way? And do you think all the money you get from those 2 will go back into the team? Or do you think some of it will go towards servicing the debt that none of you think is a problem in any way shape or form apart from the fact that money that could be spent on players is now being spent elsewhere?

As my learned friend Mr Steelowl above says, I'd love us both to be in the prem. I'm afraid if you dont do it this season though you're looking at replicating our last 10 years. All the signs are there, and we should know, we've been there.

I'm not sure whether to laugh at poor Mickey or feel pity for him. When he finally appreciates the depth of the problems facing United he will have to come to terms with a very long period in the relative wilderness of football. What we've endured for the last decade is too close to home and given the scale of their liabilities could potentially see them sink lower than we did, and for longer.

[Dark$ide]

I presume by Darren you mean me From the site I found it quoted room rates of £64 and a revpar of £22 which I found surprising but it was due to occupancy rates. From my figures (by no means an expert) the hotel will be lucky to generate 300k profit/year

sorry was talking to a darren on the phone.

£300K a year with a debt of £23 Million

not pretty, no matter what way you look at it !

[darra]

I know mate, was just kidding. No offence.

none taken

[Geedee]

Somewhere in the region of £6m,,,I not got the accounts to hand 'cos I do have better bed time reading..you can't add any business centre/hotel related monies to bank debts....

Such as

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mm_Lg10...;q=&f=false

Edited February 19, 2010 by Geedee

[Glaser]

And don't forget that McCabe's loans come at a jaw-dropping 10% interest rate too. So there's only one direction the amount due to him is going to go.

isn't it funny when all these home truths come out little billy blunt goes running back to his sows ....

[dorian gray]

Maybe cos SUFC debt is not real debt in the sense the SWFC's is?

NOT that any of you will see that because you don't wish to do so...You would rather make ill informed "funny" comments about hotels etc

listen bud...if you owe a thousand pound...you owe a thousand pound...whether you owe it to your granny or the bank....the bank will want it back, now your granny might say lets forget it...but you don't owe a thousand you owe millions and big millions at that...do you think mccabe is gonna forget it...if you don't go up this year you are up $hit creek without a paddle...so all jump out an start swimming...hahaha

[Tea Baggins]

last post by dnhc was spot on!

You piggies can shrug off this poo as if its not happening but McCabe WILL want his cash back and wouldn't be suprised if he bails like other glory hunting chairman.

Accept you are on a massive decline, 10 pts deducted next year maybe??????

I live in hope.

[Guest BaRmY OwLs]

No football club is a safe investment to anyone.

[Mr. Chow]

sheff united