Guest mickeybb Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Mickey, the art of debate is listening as well as speaking, and you're kinda struggling with both On tonight's performance, you're not fit to lace monkeyspaff's boots... what do you want me to say? that SWFC are Barcelona?? Cos that aint gonna happen.... You're a lower CCC club with dreams of the past (not allowed to comment on LS) so Il leave it at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Note to Darra. Thats just the SELLING price of the rooms your using. You forgetting the fixed and variable costs such as STAFF, Linin, washing , cleaning etc, heating. :-) I'm not an expert in these matters by any means the figures I used for occupancy rates were from the hotel industry website and the figures for Copthorne re occupancy rates and room rates were from their 2009 annual accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mickeybb Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I'm not an expert in these matters by any means the figures I used for occupancy rates were from the hotel industry website and the figures for Copthorne re occupancy rates and room rates were from their 2009 annual accounts your a lot more right than he is....but i guess you thought about it ofr five seconds or so booooo @ darkpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) your a lot more right than he is....but i guess you thought about it ofr five seconds or so booooo @ darkpig There's alot of info out there if you take the time not all of it makes good reading.http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/2010...tel-figures.htm It seems REVPAR is what's important Revpar - is the total bedroom revenue for the period divided by the total available rooms during the period. Edited February 19, 2010 by darra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulixifer Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 your a lot more right than he is....but i guess you thought about it ofr five seconds or so booooo @ darkpig I'm still to read one logical cohesive argument come out of your mouth. You can twist the facts however you like and shield yourself in denial... but the facts outnumber your counter arguments 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 There's alot of info out there if you take the time not all of it makes good reading. http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/2010...tel-figures.htm It seems REVPAR is what's important Revpar - is the total bedroom revenue for the period divided by the total available rooms during the period. Yeah very interestinzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mickeybb Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I'm still to read one logical cohesive argument come out of your mouth. You can twist the facts however you like and shield yourself in denial... but the facts outnumber your counter arguments 100% think they used to call em ESN i did say im not here to educate pork..... so all ESN....byyyyyeee If any educated Wendy wanna debate/argue/fight/growl etc here i am but most of the above aint really up to the job are they so go back to the pig pen and learn to talk sense....FFS Im allegeged to be the Pork on here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCOWL Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 think they used to call em ESN i did say im not here to educate pork..... so all ESN....byyyyyeee If any educated Wendy wanna debate/argue/fight/growl etc here i am but most of the above aint really up to the job are they so go back to the pig pen and learn to talk sense....FFS Im allegeged to be the Pork on here.... What does the BB stand for?Blinkered Boy? Beligerent BellEnd? Boring Blade? Bertie Basset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capetownowl Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 The thing with SUFC debt is that a lot of it is held to KM who just happens to also own most of the shares in SUFC PLC..so he is a bit between a rock and a hard place even if he wanted to reclaim the debt.... You have not heard of Voluntary Liquidation then. It happens when the owner no longer wants to put money into the business and can not see how they can continue to trade without making a loss. In effect cutting his loses. Having loans to individuals who also run the business is far worse than having loans with institutions. The latter will always wait as they usually have 1st lean on fixed assets. The individual will always be the 1st to cut and run as they are the ones who will lose the most. If they see continued loses then what they really they see is money going directly out of their pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 No i'm making the point that when ever i've worked with consultants on projects, NOT a SINGLE person has stayed at the copthorn. No one Zip, Zilch. These are people working for MAJOR multinationals, consultancy houses etc. i've not yet met anyone who's decided to come to sheffield, took one look at the hotels available and thought, I'll stay at the copthorn at S2, its convinent, in a nice area and has good facilities............. People have stayed at various places, numerous hotel, but not a single one at the copthorn. So on a professional level, not a single person who i know, who's had to work in sheffied on 'site' has stayed it the copthorn. It makes you think who IS actually staying in the hotel mid week ! Hmm yep who'd need one in that area........ it's a mystery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 what do you want me to say? that SWFC are Barcelona?? Cos that aint gonna happen.... You're a lower CCC club with dreams of the past (not allowed to comment on LS) so Il leave it at that Youve made reference to that a few times, but no one thinks that. Were fully aware and hacked off at how inconsistent our team is and the talk of budgets etc. We only refer to our potential, which was outlined in the past. However, what you seem to want to ignore is that the cold harsh realities of staying in the CCC are coming back to haunt you, no one can dish out the kind of money on fees and wages that United were during their parachute years, fail to go back up and then still be in a healthy financial position. You can call us deluded all you want, but its a case of pot kettle black, throughout this season many blades have denied Sheff Utd are skint as if it was some kind of insult on their suddenly acquired high brow identity..the truth is you are actually very skint and if your gamble doesnt pay off this year this fact will hit you in the face like a wet fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mickeybb Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I said before on here, as far as Im concerned SUFC are a mid CCC team and always have been...maybe Its my age and when I first went, but Im happy with that....At least it keeps the plastics away and I can sit (booo!) where I want when I go to the Lane I enjoy it regardless of League position, infact the lower the better in some ways...... That to me is the difference between Us and You...We are Blades simply cos we are...You are always looking for that MASSIVE dream..that aint gonna happen for a long time anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Uniform Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I have put dj's in the copthorne twice, but only because it was the cheapest 4 star hotel on laterooms. but now the novotel is similar prices and better location so use that now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I said before on here, as far as Im concerned SUFC are a mid CCC team and always have been...maybe Its my age and when I first went, but Im happy with that....At least it keeps the plastics away and I can sit (booo!) where I want when I go to the Lane I enjoy it regardless of League position, infact the lower the better in some ways...... That to me is the difference between Us and You...We are Blades simply cos we are...You are always looking for that MASSIVE dream..that aint gonna happen for a long time anymore 2 generalisations there. A) All owls are looking for a massive dream. I'm certainly not in fact I think I'm like you I'd prefer us to be a solid play off team with the hope that we can get back into the PL. I'd prefer that to be funded by attendances and income and earned on the pitch by good coaching of local kids - that's my 'dream' I doubt it'll happen in my lifetime but the hope is the driver. No part of my dream involves my team being a toy for either a Billionaire, land developers or indeed a business opportunity. The latter is now being considered - I'll reserve judgement when and if it ever happens. B) Blades happy with what they've got Clearly you don't listen to the blades on RS who, shoes at the ready, are ready to lynch whoever is the manager for not being in the playoffs -even with all the disruption to your team - bizarre! I can sort of understand some of the anger at the club. You have always sold your better players and you're doing it again . I actually can't stand your manager who learnt his mardiness alongside someone who has a degree in it but we'd have made our manager a saint for such a feat. Petty schoolboy stuff aside, and I can do petty . I'd love us to both be in the PL the banter would be great but can't see it happening, I just hope the weeds don't get there first benefiting from Leicester's tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latemodelchild Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 MickeyBB, where are you going to get the cash from to buy players now mcabe has said he's not putting any more family money in? Its either sell players to cover costs or rely on other incomes. The hotel loses money, chengdu and the Hungarian(?) team aren't turning a profit and its been documented that we take more matchday revenue on smaller crowds. So either your prices are going up or freebies are being cut to watch players of a similar standard to now or you're selling your current players to be replaced by cheaper ones. It seems that many blades fans aren't happy with the current crop. Listen to the phoneins for that point of view. Now, I know Brian talks cack on RS, but he's my barometer of fickleness. He bought a season ticket when you went up and to his credit has renewed each season since I think. How long before he's on saying he's not renewing do you think? And he wont be alone if the freebies dry up. I know a fair few that wont renew if they have to pay for the kids. A few that wont cos you're only just outside the playofffs. Your period of dominance in the city is coming to an end. You managed 1 season in the top flight and are now saddled with 48 million pounds of debt and a shortfall each year that can only be covered by selling players. Your team is full of loans, and I mean full. Entire back 5 the other day wasnt it? No money to be made there. Cheddars could be sold but he's hardly set the world on fire has he? Billy blunt will get you a few quid but you've not cashed in yet. Why is that by the way? And do you think all the money you get from those 2 will go back into the team? Or do you think some of it will go towards servicing the debt that none of you think is a problem in any way shape or form apart from the fact that money that could be spent on players is now being spent elsewhere? As my learned friend Mr Steelowl above says, I'd love us both to be in the prem. I'm afraid if you dont do it this season though you're looking at replicating our last 10 years. All the signs are there, and we should know, we've been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark$ide Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) your a lot more right than he is....but i guess you thought about it ofr five seconds or so booooo @ darkpig Occupancy rates & selling prices are completely different to fixed costs. The copthorn selling x number of rooms at £55 or whatever gives you total 'income' Each room costs a certain amount to maintain and run - staffing for cleaners, lights, heating all fixed overheads. So even if you are SELLING rooms at £55 each you have to take out the fixed & variable costs of running the hotel. Just 'selling' room for £55 doesn't mean its all 'profit'. Darren was quite correct in his interpretation of rooms & total income via sales figures, i've never said he wasn't. I've said he has missed out on the fixed & Variable costs of running the hotel. Included in these costs is the £23 Milllion construction loan that costs £4 Million a year to service the debt on. Even the 'repar' figures quoted by darren don't take into account the costs of running the hotel, just the 'revenue' per room. Not any costs associated with that revenue Ok Mickybb. Lets take your own figures as an example even @ £50 per night = 150 rooms x 7 nights per week with me so far??? equals £2.5m per annum revenue without any COSTS associated with that revenue. Lets take take an example that a hotel room costs £5 to maintain, clean it light it etc/ That gives you fixed costs of running a hotel of £273,000. Plus 'others' lets say the hotel costs half a million a year to run. given your OWN figures that leaves a potential operating profit of 'just' two million a year. How much does the £25 million construction debt cost per annum to service ? Isn't the cost of servicing that debt £4-5 Million p/a far higher than the profits that the hotel can make ? Meaning that the hotel will be operating at a continuous loss, and will have to have constant support from the football club ? Thats based on your own figures by the way ! But the £23 milllion construction debt against the hotel doesn't count as its a 'mortgage' against an asset - the hotel. But according to your OWN figures the hotel will NEVER make enough money to service its mortgage debt, never mind paying it off. Meaning that the football will have to find £2 Million a year + to cover the costs associated with your HOTEL ! Edited February 19, 2010 by Dark$ide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I said before on here, as far as Im concerned SUFC are a mid CCC team and always have been...maybe Its my age and when I first went, but Im happy with that....At least it keeps the plastics away and I can sit (booo!) where I want when I go to the Lane I enjoy it regardless of League position, infact the lower the better in some ways...... That to me is the difference between Us and You...We are Blades simply cos we are...You are always looking for that MASSIVE dream..that aint gonna happen for a long time anymore Quality. A few years ago all I heard was that United were going to take over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark$ide Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Occupancy rates & selling prices are completely different to fixed costs. The copthorn selling x number of rooms at £55 or whatever gives you total 'income' Each room costs a certain amount to maintain and run - staffing for cleaners, lights, heating all fixed overheads. So even if you are SELLING rooms at £55 each you have to take out the fixed & variable costs of running the hotel. Just 'selling' room for £55 doesn't mean its all 'profit'. Darren was quite correct in his interpretation of rooms & total income via sales figures, i've never said he wasn't. I've said he has missed out on the fixed & Variable costs of running the hotel. Included in these costs is the £23 Milllion construction loan that costs £4 Million a year to service the debt on. Even the 'repar' figures quoted by darren don't take into account the costs of running the hotel, just the 'revenue' per room. Not any costs associated with that revenue Ok Mickybb. Lets take your own figures as an example even @ £50 per night = 150 rooms x 7 nights per week with me so far??? equals £2.5m per annum revenue without any COSTS associated with that revenue. Lets take take an example that a hotel room costs £5 to maintain, clean it light it etc/ That gives you fixed costs of running a hotel of £273,000. Plus 'others' lets say the hotel costs half a million a year to run. given your OWN figures that leaves a potential operating profit of 'just' two million a year. How much does the £25 million construction debt cost per annum to service ? Isn't the cost of servicing that debt £4-5 Million p/a far higher than the profits that the hotel can make ? Meaning that the hotel will be operating at a continuous loss, and will have to have constant support from the football club ? Thats based on your own figures by the way ! But the £23 milllion construction debt against the hotel doesn't count as its a 'mortgage' against an asset - the hotel. But according to your OWN figures the hotel will NEVER make enough money to service its mortgage debt, never mind paying it off. Meaning that the football will have to find £2 Million a year + to cover the costs associated with your HOTEL ! No response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark$ide Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 How does it feel micky that your S/T money is going to be used to support the hotel ? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Yeah very interestinzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz It may be, but it's called backing your arguments up with facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now