Popular Post Tommy Crawshaw Posted March 20 Popular Post Share Posted March 20 Obviously whichever team scores first in a game more often than not goes on to win. I thought I'd have a look at how we have done in that regard this season in the league. Scoring first - Won 10 Drawn 1 Lost 3 Conceding first - Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 19 You can see how vital it is for us to score the first goal. But the stat that really stands out is when it's broken down into Home and Away, and it doesn't really come as a surprise. In away games we have conceded first in 12 matches and lost all 12 of them. Not only once we've conceded away first it's been game over, we've usually gone on to ship loads more goals. In those 12 matches we scored 2 and conceded 32 goals. At home it's not much better when conceding first, W1 D1 L7. So only once have we managed to come back and win a game when conceding first (QPR home), and once we've come back to get a point (Leicester home). On the plus side when scoring first we then go on to win 71% of the time. When we scored first away it's Won 4 Drawn 0 Lost 2. I wonder if this is why DR goes very attacking early in away games. He's realised we have to score the first goal to have any chance. At Home when scoring first - W6 D1 L1 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beswetherick Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 With the lack of goals we score, it does feel like we’re going to lose (or draw at best) as soon as we concede the first goal 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponte_Owl85 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 The stats are there to suggest that. Maybe the Xisco era has really affected their confidence?If Röhl recognised that I would hope he'd be making strides to rectify it though, rather than just going for it from ko every match 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
island owl Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Its been a problem for a few years 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beswetherick Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Just now, island owl said: Its been a problem for a few years I’ve not felt confident in our ability to come back from behind probably since the Jos/Monk era 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Crawshaw Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, Ponte_Owl85 said: The stats are there to suggest that. Maybe the Xisco era has really affected their confidence?If Röhl recognised that I would hope he'd be making strides to rectify it though, rather than just going for it from ko every match It's understandable at home but sometimes away it maybe would be better to keep things tight to start with. I'm not saying go all defensive and play not to lose, but be solid early on, not to open and don't make it easy for the opposites. I think we could have picked up a few more draws instead of defeats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 It'd be interesting to see those numbers since Röhl came in. His approach is obviously completely different from Xisco's ultra-defensive set up. I might look into that if this crappy insomnia gets the better of me again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinno Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 So basically if we concede first go home 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 OK, I'm still awake, so here goes... Subtracting Xisco's return from the numbers provided by @Tommy Crawshaw: Scoring first (home) Won 6 Drawn 1 Lost 1 Conceding first (home) Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 3 Scoring first (away) Won 4 Drawn 0 Lost 1 Conceding first (away) Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 9 Scoring first (total) Won 10 Drawn 1 Lost 2 Conceding first (total) Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 12 If our Danny is of the view that we have to score the first goal to have any chance, he might want to think about preventing the opposition from doing so, rather than putting all the focus on trying to nick a goal with the high press. Having no midfield whatsoever in away games has backfired massively a few times now. Let's hope that lesson has been learned before we face West Brom and Norwich in particular. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 we know they can play coz we've had some good performances of late but those stats scream mentally weak....the scored 2 conceded 32 when going behind is appalling..big clear out needed in the summer 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 8 hours ago, island owl said: Its been a problem for a few years Last season we came back to get a win or draw as often as we went on to lose after conceding the first goal. Not a terrible strike rate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Thome Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Röhl has generally been excellent at turning things around. But its my biggest criticism of Röhl that we don't seem to be able to effectively change tactics after going a goal down. We either stay exactly the same and the same mistakes keep occurring, or we throw the kitchen sink at the opposition and ship a load of goals without creating many good chances for ourselves. His 'Plan A' for many games is excellent. We've gone into games where we have come up with a good gameplan and come away with some fine victories. But if Plan A fails, we don't seem to have a decent Plan B. Its a good point by @areNOTwhatTHEYseem that last season Moore was much better at adapting and coming back from behind (most famously Peterborough, but we came back from 2 goals down against Ipswich, Cheltenham, Barnsley - okay ultimately lost the last one), we were a goal down against Fleetwood, MK Dons, Exeter and won. Yes, generally a much lower level of opposition, but seeing as (I think) we only conceded the first goal in 11/46 league games, so it didn't happen often, we were much more resilient and it was rare we were completely out of the game. Why is this? A few factors I think, a weak bench, lack of leaders on the pitch, a lack of composure, and perhaps a tendency to focus all week in training on a gameplan and not have a back-up with the same precision. I do think we should have used 3-5-2 more, it could have been our familiar comfort blanket if we needed to bring Smith on and go more direct, but in a way the players are familiar with and won't leave massive spaces at the back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrysgame Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Pretty awful stats. Guess that's the reason we are where we are. Highlights just how frail the players are mentally when the chips are down. Although the lack of goalscorers is the other major factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeyswfc Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 The players are weak mentally. It’s all or nothing, if they go behind they just seem to give up. Whereas when we score first they seem to put everything into it to win. Dont know where this stems from but it’s been an issue since the points deduction season. We thought DM had solved it, only for it to appear again in the back end of last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watto Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 I'll be honest, Wednesday have had this problem for many years especially away from home, you can almost guarantee if we concede first on our travels we lose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Didn't we recently go nearly 6 years from conceding the first goal away from home to go on to win the match, Birmingham Feb 2016 not ending till Doncaster Jan 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Just now, owler66 said: Didn't we recently go nearly 6 years from conceding the first goal away from home to go on to win the match, Birmingham Feb 2016 not ending till Doncaster Jan 2022 Yep. Moore did well to turn around that particular mental block which had built up. It's reared its head again now, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 28 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: Yep. Moore did well to turn around that particular mental block which had built up. It's reared its head again now, though... If you think about it it's still February 2016 in the Championship since we won away after going behind,terrible statistic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSandersonOWL Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 6 hours ago, dinno said: So basically if we concede first go home We are not allowed to change ground in the middle of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Crawshaw Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 6 hours ago, Geörge Whitebread said: OK, I'm still awake, so here goes... Subtracting Xisco's return from the numbers provided by @Tommy Crawshaw: Scoring first (home) Won 6 Drawn 1 Lost 1 Conceding first (home) Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 3 Scoring first (away) Won 4 Drawn 0 Lost 1 Conceding first (away) Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 9 Scoring first (total) Won 10 Drawn 1 Lost 2 Conceding first (total) Won 1 Drawn 1 Lost 12 If our Danny is of the view that we have to score the first goal to have any chance, he might want to think about preventing the opposition from doing so, rather than putting all the focus on trying to nick a goal with the high press. Having no midfield whatsoever in away games has backfired massively a few times now. Let's hope that lesson has been learned before we face West Brom and Norwich in particular. Taking it a bit further, comparing under XM to DR when conceding first. XM W0 D0 L7 F2 A13 DR W1 D1 L12 F5 A36 Strangely we kept the score down under Xisco, going on to concede on average 1.86 goals per game. We've had a few hammerings under Danny and conceded 2.57 goals per game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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