SWFC boss Darren Moore

[duncanidaho]

1 hour ago, morganowl said:

i was 1 who was questioning him after pathetic displays at sunderland  and shrewsbury . in fact a poll done on here was it 88% wanted him sacked? 4 months ago?

 

It was a bit short sighted not getting rid of him after a couple of bad results during a 46 match season.

Liverpool fans should've got rid of Klopp when they lost 6 in a row at home for the first time in their history, they might've been a point ahead of Man City now instead of a point behind if they had...

[duncanidaho]

36 minutes ago, Django said:

Danny Cowley says we’ve got the best team in the division 

 

4 under par for Mr Moore 

And Danny Cowley is the fountain of all football knowledge and we should base our opinions on his utterings?

 

[Django]

15 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

And Danny Cowley is the fountain of all football knowledge and we should base our opinions on his utterings?

 

More qualified than anyone on here 

[StudentOwl]

1 hour ago, Django said:

Danny Cowley says we’ve got the best team in the division 

 

4 under par for Mr Moore 

I mean no one with a brain cell would suggest we had the best team available in the first six months. This is a really daft comment. Where we are now is not indicative of where we were 3/6/9 months ago... at different times over the season we have been differently competent. The January transfer window was a big help.

 

I mean, take the form table over the first 23 games vs second. Second half of the season... third, behind MK Dons and Bolton. First half of the season... 8th. Are you really trying to claim we had the best available side in the division then? It's clear to anyone with a brain cell there's been a transformative effect over the league season.

 

And finally... Cowley has just seen his side absolutely spanked by us. Is it at all possible that he's doing the thing that managers tend to do when they've had a tough time of it and big up the opposites to try and deflect from over criticism? Possible at all? No? Maybe?

 

[duncanidaho]

Some pre season predictions from other sources

 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/who-will-win-the-202122-league-one-fourfourtwos-predicted-final-table

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/03/league-one-2021-22-season-preview

 

fourfourtwo had us 11th and the Guardian had us as relegation candidates.

 

be interesting to find how many independant sources had us as automatic promotion candidates?

[katie melua]

2 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

Some pre season predictions from other sources

 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/who-will-win-the-202122-league-one-fourfourtwos-predicted-final-table

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/03/league-one-2021-22-season-preview

 

fourfourtwo had us 11th and the Guardian had us as relegation candidates.

 

be interesting to find how many independant sources had us as automatic promotion candidates?

 

Wow, that Guardian prediction

 

Crewe and Accrington challenging for the play offs

Lincoln and Ipswich title contenders

Plymouth, Bolton and us relegation candidates

 

That's as bad as Glenn McGraths 5-0 ashes predictions of ashes series in England

 

[Django]

7 minutes ago, katie melua said:

 

Wow, that Guardian prediction

 

Crewe and Accrington challenging for the play offs

Lincoln and Ipswich title contenders

Plymouth, Bolton and us relegation candidates

 

That's as bad as Glenn McGraths 5-0 ashes predictions of ashes series in England

 

The guardian fountain of all football knowledge 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Django

[duncanidaho]

3 minutes ago, Django said:

The guardian fountain of all football knowledge 

More qualified than anyone on here 

[Django]

2 minutes ago, duncanidaho said:

More qualified than anyone on here 

Not really 

 

a manager in the league we play in who has extensive knowledge of the division 

 

then 

 

fans of a club who watch them play every week

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

then some reporter or ex pros who make some predictions to fill some column inches 

[duncanidaho]

2 minutes ago, Django said:

Not really 

 

a manager in the league we play in who has extensive knowledge of the division 

 

then 

 

fans of a club who watch them play every week

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

then some reporter or ex pros who make some predictions to fill some column inches 

Who report on football for a living or used to play football for a living 

 

rather than a manager who has seen his team get spanked and maybe wants to gloss over a poor result by saying Wednesday were brilliant

 

rather than biased fans on a forum who find it sometimes a bit tricky to be subjective about the club they love (which i am often guilty of)

[Django]

Just now, duncanidaho said:

Who report on football for a living or used to play football for a living 

 

rather than a manager who has seen his team get spanked and maybe wants to gloss over a poor result by saying Wednesday were brilliant

 

rather than biased fans on a forum who find it sometimes a bit tricky to be subjective about the club they love (which i am often guilty of)

Nope

[Guest]

11 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

Two thoughts 

1. Doesn't matter how "big" you are. You're relegated to that division, you're there on merit (even arguably with a points deduction). You're still a league one club for at least 12 months, you've done things just as 'wrong' as those other clubs to end up there in the first place (sometimes even moreso, considering the relative increase of resources that makes you a 'big club'

 

2. Of those you've mentioned that got relegated to this level in the last 20 years, I've highlighted in bold those that took more than one season to bounce back. Four out of the six, two-thirds of those big clubs, took more than one season to bounce back. A very similar ratio to the aforementioned ratio that you've quoted from. Cheers for making my point for me.

The trend has got worse as football has become more of a closed shop over recent seasons. I just looked:

 

2016-17 relegated from the championship: Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham 

 

2017-18 promoted from league 1: Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham lost in play offs 

 

2017-18 relegated from the championship: Barnsley, Burton, Sunderland 

 

2018-19 promoted from league 1: Barnsley, Sunderland lost in play offs, Burton a minnow and unlikely to bounce back 

 

2018-19 relegated from the championship: Rotherham, Bolton, Ipswich 

 

2019-20 promoted from league 1: Rotherham, Ipswich lagged mid table, Bolton financial issues and points deductions so unlikely to bounce back

 

2019-20 relegated from the championship: Charlton, Wigan, Hull

 

2020-21 promoted from league 1: Hull, Charlton just missed play offs, Wigan financial issues and unlikely to bounce back

 

2020-21 relegated from the championship: Rotherham, Wycombe, Sheff Wed

 

2021-22 promoted from league 1: Rotherham, Wycombe and Sheff Wed play offs - promoted??

 

So that’s the last 5 seasons. If you take out the minnows who were never likely to bounce back to the championship as no budget, and the clubs who were screwed over with financial problems, you’re left with 12 out of the 15 clubs who were relegated.

 

Of those, 6 were promoted first time (possibly 7 if we or Wycombe win play offs), at least 3 failed in the play offs (possibly 4 if neither us or Wycombe win them), and only two didn’t get top 6 (Charlton finished 7th on GD, Ipswich mid table).

 

I think it’s pretty clear that first time promotion is very achievable since half the sides in the last 5 seasons have managed that. Given our relative budget we’ve totally failed it we don’t go up, that much is obvious.

[NorthernOwl]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Danny Cowley says we’ve got the best team in the division 

 

4 under par for Mr Moore 

 

Yes and since they've been fit we've had the best form in the division. 

 

Doesn't matter how good the players in the treatment room are.

[@owlstalk]

[@owlstalk]

Deep down every single fan who cries about Darren Moore not being successful at our club - every single one of them - KNOWS that we've had serious issues at the club, injuries, covid, players threatening to walk out because they weren't getting paid, key players out etc

They know it

But they choose to pretend to disregard every single point that explains how this season has gone - purely and only and solely to try and turn people against our manager

Why is that?

 

 

[NorthernOwl]

5 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

The trend has got worse as football has become more of a closed shop over recent seasons. I just looked:

 

2016-17 relegated from the championship: Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham 

 

2017-18 promoted from league 1: Blackburn, Wigan, Rotherham lost in play offs 

 

2017-18 relegated from the championship: Barnsley, Burton, Sunderland 

 

2018-19 promoted from league 1: Barnsley, Sunderland lost in play offs, Burton a minnow and unlikely to bounce back 

 

2018-19 relegated from the championship: Rotherham, Bolton, Ipswich 

 

2019-20 promoted from league 1: Rotherham, Ipswich lagged mid table, Bolton financial issues and points deductions so unlikely to bounce back

 

2019-20 relegated from the championship: Charlton, Wigan, Hull

 

2020-21 promoted from league 1: Hull, Charlton just missed play offs, Wigan financial issues and unlikely to bounce back

 

2020-21 relegated from the championship: Rotherham, Wycombe, Sheff Wed

 

2021-22 promoted from league 1: Rotherham, Wycombe and Sheff Wed play offs - promoted??

 

So that’s the last 5 seasons. If you take out the minnows who were never likely to bounce back to the championship as no budget, and the clubs who were screwed over with financial problems, you’re left with 12 out of the 15 clubs who were relegated.

 

Of those, 6 were promoted first time (possibly 7 if we or Wycombe win play offs), at least 3 failed in the play offs (possibly 4 if neither us or Wycombe win them), and only two didn’t get top 6 (Charlton finished 7th on GD, Ipswich mid table).

 

I think it’s pretty clear that first time promotion is very achievable since half the sides in the last 5 seasons have managed that. Given our relative budget we’ve totally failed it we don’t go up, that much is obvious.

 

I think your point is somewhat undermined by removing all the clubs that didn't get promotion because for some reason they don't count.

[CourteenerOwl]

Moore has been a breath of fresh air in many ways. He can frustrate with his constant tinkering but on paper he has done an excellent job.

 

He could easily have left pre season and I think many thought he might. We had an embargo and when Bannan came out and did that interview things seemed at an all time low.

 

Moore has been a huge factor in turning the atmosphere around at the club. At no point this season have I thought the players were not playing for him, which cannot be said about any of the managers that followed Carlos before him. He has got our home form back to the levels of the Carlos era, again something the managers before him struggled with. He has got us coming back in games when we go behind, he has to take huge credit with this, in a)changing the mentality and b)signing players like Gregory, Dean, Byers and more who have better personalities and mentalities than players before them who would cave and shrink and shirk responsibility.

 

Let's hope we do this and get promoted but to come 4th and with our home record- Moore deserves a proper pre season without the chaos whatever happens now.

 

Easily best manager we have had post Carlos.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

I think your point is somewhat undermined by removing all the clubs that didn't get promotion because for some reason they don't count.

If you think that then you clearly don’t understand how to filter relevant data. I’ve explained quite clearly why those 3 teams should be excluded from the analysis. Unless you think we should compare our season to Bolton who had a massive points deduction, Wigan who were in administration or Burton Albion who were punching at championship level.

 

It’s so obvious that if we don’t win promotion we’ve underperformed given budgets and football landscape yet some want to defend failure.

 

If Moore wins the play offs he’s met expectations for the season. If he doesn’t he hasn’t, simple as that really. I know it’s harsh as the play offs are a lottery but that’s what you get for not getting the autos 

[CourteenerOwl]

17 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

If you think that then you clearly don’t understand how to filter relevant data. I’ve explained quite clearly why those 3 teams should be excluded from the analysis. Unless you think we should compare our season to Bolton who had a massive points deduction, Wigan who were in administration or Burton Albion who were punching at championship level.

 

It’s so obvious that if we don’t win promotion we’ve underperformed given budgets and football landscape yet some want to defend failure.

 

If Moore wins the play offs he’s met expectations for the season. If he doesn’t he hasn’t, simple as that really. I know it’s harsh as the play offs are a lottery but that’s what you get for not getting the autos 

It's not as simple as that. Lot's of variables come into play.

 

Sunderland have been in this league for 4 seasons with the biggest budget. Ipswich years too. Pigs similar amount of time.

 

Moore had to get this side together last minute - looks at the second half of the season stats once they gelled. Not really Moore fault the start of the season and trying to desperately get a squad of players together. It was only three or four weeks before season where Bannan gave that worrying interview - suggesting all was not well. So Moore had a lot of off field work to get right first before he could concentrate on the games. I think he has done a solid job.

[StudentOwl]

33 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

I think your point is somewhat undermined by removing all the clubs that didn't get promotion because for some reason they don't count.

Also takes great pains to point out when clubs with financial issues and points deductions were unlikely to bounce straight back.

 

Didn't we get a points deduction last season for financial issues?