“Stop sacking managers. Let them build something”

[Guest OrlandoUnTrustful]

I wouldn’t trust Moore to build a Snowman at the North Pole.

 

At least Jos was trying to bring the age and wages down.

[CircleSeven]

It is entirely possible that sticking with Monk, Pulis or even Joss would have had a better outcome than we got from appointing Moore. It is also entirely possible that sticking with the above managers would have had a worse or indeed absolutely identical outcome. There is never ever any way of knowing. 
 

What I can say for certain is that we will struggle to get anyone decent to come and manage us for the foreseeable future (Redbull takeover notwithstanding). We might get lucky and appoint a player as a manager  who turns out to be a terrific manager but that doesn’t happen that often. 
 

We are in horrible shape as a club. 
 

Moore clearly has massive shortcomings as a manager. But I suspect he will be here until, the end of Feb at least and be given the chance to get us into the playoffs over the upcoming nine games. If he pulls it off he will save his job. If not he should and probably will get fired.

IMO. 

[CircleSeven]

18 minutes ago, parajack said:

Rotherham have been promoted out of this League twice already at the first attempt,on a shoestring budget,loan players,and losing players to other Clubs each Year...and are on target to go up again...

WW a L1 Club relegated from the Championship at the first attempt now sit in a play off place...

But we must be patient.....

 

NO we should be impatient,and stop accepting(and making) excuses for failure

Ok. So I’m on board. I’m impatient. I don’t accept failure. 
What next? What do we, the humble customer do to make things change? 
I’ve already not bought next seasons ticket. And now I’m out of ideas…

[debram]

2 hours ago, Tommy Crawshaw said:

 

I would have been happy to let Bruce build but I don't know if I trust Moore to.

I certainly don't 

[debram]

2 hours ago, GermanBird said:

 

I guess it's similar to looking for a partner.

 

You can just wait for Cindy Crawford, and you will stay single for the rest of your live.

Or you do it the Wednesday way:  Marry the best girl you can find, she won't be perfect so you get divorced, marry the next girl, same problem, get divorced again, and again and again... every time you choose the next girl you will be a bit older and your reputation will go downhill. After a while there won't be any nice girls left, who would even look at you.

Or alternatively you could choose one girl and stick with her. She might not be perfect, but you might be able to built a relationship, have a lovely marriage, have children and grandchildren. 

 

Why do so many of us choose the Wednesday way of chop and change?

 

Guess we're just suckers for punishment. 

[0742]

Watford sack Ranieri and within an hour they have Roy Hodgson lined up.

 

They've had something like 18 managers in 10 years now since this owner took over. 

 

They're a premier League team and know how vital a good manager is and they don't mess around when results are not up to standard.

 

On top of that, their whole backroom team and set up is very professional..

 

Chansiri could learn a lot from their owners, they owe us after Abdi.

[torryowl]

11 minutes ago, parajack said:

Rotherham have been promoted out of this League twice already at the first attempt,on a shoestring budget,loan players,and losing players to other Clubs each Year...and are on target to go up again...

WW a L1 Club relegated from the Championship at the first attempt now sit in a play off place...

But we must be patient.....

 

NO we should be impatient,and stop accepting(and making) excuses for failure

there managers have been there for 5 & 9 years which says there chairmen have  been patient with them even in the bad years ........moore isnt winning me over but  to build a squad in one year signing freebies and loans with some important players being out long term is expecting a lot ......

[vulture_squadron]

I don't think anyone reluctant to sack the manager so hastily is necessarily a fan of Darren Moore. Obviously his CV isn't good and the season's been a struggle. But maybe they are considering that the club keeps sacking managers and nothing improves. When we got one with a good CV (Bruce / Pulis) they tried to get the hell out.

 

Also, our team may be full of Championship players that finished above Rovrum and Wycombe last season, but most of them are crocks.

 

Personally I would like to see Chansiri gone, and I wouldnt lose sleep over Moore going, but I think a manager does need to be given some transfer windows to overhaul the squad, not just one or two (and nowt to spend in them). Luhukay signed one player, Monk got given Pato instead of a proper striker. There hasn't been a left back for months. It's a mess and it will take time to sort it.

[parajack]

59 minutes ago, CircleSeven said:

Ok. So I’m on board. I’m impatient. I don’t accept failure. 
What next? What do we, the humble customer do to make things change? 
I’ve already not bought next seasons ticket. And now I’m out of ideas…

Me too...but we have done something....this is a forum where we exchange views i am myself puzzled at the views of those who talk about 'time' and 'building something' whilst teams relegated with us sit in a play off position...

[vulture_squadron]

23 minutes ago, parajack said:

Me too...but we have done something....this is a forum where we exchange views i am myself puzzled at the views of those who talk about 'time' and 'building something' whilst teams relegated with us sit in a play off position...

Could it not be that those teams are better suited to League One than the Champ? We really struggled in the Champ under Sturrock after looking good in League One (if it was called that then?!) We struggled when we went up under Jones. 

 

Also, could it not be that they have better foundations, more settled squads and a manager in both cases that has had time to build something?

 

I'm not using these as excuses for Darren Moore. But it's a fact that our squad has been in decline for years. Any manager would struggle, even never-relegated Pulis. Bruce saw the mess and jumped ship when he could. None of our managers have been handed the funds or time to build a squad with a mixture of youth and experience, with good injury records and well managed contracts.

 

We can sack Moore now and maybe we'll get a miracle worker. Experience tells us we probably won't. We'll get some guy that wants to take us in a new direction and wants to sign a load of different players but won't have the funds so, will give a new contract to Hutch and Dunks and sign some more has beens on the way down.

 

 

[parajack]

34 minutes ago, torryowl said:

there managers have been there for 5 & 9 years which says there chairmen have  been patient with them even in the bad years ........moore isnt winning me over but  to build a squad in one year signing freebies and loans with some important players being out long term is expecting a lot ......

They have been there because they have delivered......not because their Chairman are 'patient' and 7 of our squad were with us in the Championship...PW  for example delivered in his first 2 seasons...

[parajack]

Just now, vulture_squadron said:

Could it not be that those teams are better suited to League One than the Champ? We really struggled in the Champ under Sturrock after looking good in League One (if it was called that then?!) We struggled when we went up under Jones. 

 

Also, could it not be that they have better foundations, more settled squads and a manager in both cases that has had time to build something?

 

I'm not using these as excuses for Darren Moore. But it's a fact that our squad has been in decline for years. Any manager would struggle, even never-relegated Pulis. Bruce saw the mess and jumped ship when he could. None of our managers have been handed the funds or time to build a squad with a mixture of youth and experience, with good injury records and well managed contracts.

 

We can sack Moore now and maybe we'll get a miracle worker. Experience tells us we probably won't. We'll get some guy that wants to take us in a new direction and wants to sign a load of different players but won't have the funds so, will give a new contract to Hutch and Dunks and sign some more has beens on the way down.

 

 

So how would any of that explain why we have conceded so many headed goals from set pieces,why a manager who was defender all his career cant seem to coach these errors out of his players,and why Storey sat on the bench and wasn't used Sat?

None of that had anything to do with your points,what subs would you have made at 2-2?  

[parajack]

47 minutes ago, 0742 said:

Watford sack Ranieri and within an hour they have Roy Hodgson lined up.

 

They've had something like 18 managers in 10 years now since this owner took over. 

 

They're a premier League team and know how vital a good manager is and they don't mess around when results are not up to standard.

 

On top of that, their whole backroom team and set up is very professional..

 

Chansiri could learn a lot from their owners, they owe us after Abdi.

GREAT POST!!!!  

[vulture_squadron]

18 minutes ago, parajack said:

So how would any of that explain why we have conceded so many headed goals from set pieces,why a manager who was defender all his career cant seem to coach these errors out of his players,and why Storey sat on the bench and wasn't used Sat?

None of that had anything to do with your points,what subs would you have made at 2-2?  

Fair points. You can lay all the blame at the manager's feet if you want but I think there's more to it than that. We've got a makeshift defence. We've got Storey on the bench yes but fair enough he hasn't changed a winning team. Brennan's been beaten to headers for goals conceded too.

 

I'm not saying Darren Moore is class. Yeah he's tinkered a lot, but you could argue he's had to.

 

I'm just saying the club's recruitment's a mess, injuries are killing us as usual, and it makes the manager's job harder. We could have had Paul Cook. He's got a better record than Moore. But he's signed a load of players at Ipswich and got the sack lower down the league than we are. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cain]

I agree………but only after we’ve sacked this clueless fool and finally got one who knows what he’s doing

[Roy Of The Roasters]

8 hours ago, 0742 said:

Watford sack Ranieri and within an hour they have Roy Hodgson lined up.

 

They've had something like 18 managers in 10 years now since this owner took over.

 

Are you sure that's a good thing? Something to boast about?

 

Look where Watford are in the table. It's hardly a ringing endorsement of continually changing the manager, is it?

 

 

8 hours ago, 0742 said:

They're a premier League team and know how vital a good manager is and they don't mess around when results are not up to standard.

 

I'm not sure they will be for much longer, not least because of the owners itchy trigger finger. They've had plenty of good managers, but no patience.

 

In all seriousness, they're in 19th place in the PL and deep in a relegation scrap. We're in 8th in L1 and in contention for a play-off place. Our respective situations are hardly comparable.

[0742]

1 minute ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

Are you sure that's a good thing? Something to boast about?

 

Look where Watford are in the table. It's hardly a ringing endorsement of continually changing the manager, is it?

 

 

 

I'm not sure they will be for much longer, not least because of the owners itchy trigger finger. They've had plenty of good managers, but no patience.

 

In all seriousness, they're in 19th place in the PL and deep in a relegation scrap. We're in 8th in L1 and in contention for a play-off place. Our respective situations are hardly comparable.

 

I'm absolutely certain that their club is far better run than ours. 

 

Their situation shines a light on the fact that when they sack a poor manager, they have the infrastructure to replace them quickly with a very good manager, which is why they're happy to pull the trigger.

 

We on the other hand have to sit and wait, hoping that whoever is the manager can turn things around, when deep down, we all really know he's not capable. We do this because we don't have the professional infrastructure at the club to be so decisive. We end up replacing like for like. 

 

My last point is that Watfords situation puts to bed the consensus that you can't just keep sacking managers as you won't be successful. I'd say they're far more successful than we will be in the next 5 years, and have been for the last 10 years too. 

[parajack]

8 hours ago, vulture_squadron said:

Fair points. You can lay all the blame at the manager's feet if you want but I think there's more to it than that. We've got a makeshift defence. We've got Storey on the bench yes but fair enough he hasn't changed a winning team. Brennan's been beaten to headers for goals conceded too.

 

I'm not saying Darren Moore is class. Yeah he's tinkered a lot, but you could argue he's had to.

 

I'm just saying the club's recruitment's a mess, injuries are killing us as usual, and it makes the manager's job harder. We could have had Paul Cook. He's got a better record than Moore. But he's signed a load of players at Ipswich and got the sack lower down the league than we are. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why always choose an example of failure to compare and contrast with DM? what if we had made a bid for Warne? instead of DM? paid compo to Rotherham instead of Donny and allowed Warne to continue his relationship with Wing at SWFC?

Just as valid a comparison i believe as the one with Cook...

DM was the one to bring in a play it out systym to a struggling team,defenders low on confidence,in a team where many knew they would be leaving at the end of the season.

He had a full pre season still wanting this systym,and kicked off using a lone striker,leading to us drawing too many games in my view.

Start the game with a winning team,fair enough,cant argue with that,but what possible reason could you have for not bringing on a 6-2 CB when its 2-2?

People are giving DM way more slack than GM and i dont get it....should be held to account for his poor decision making,Mon had no back room team,had to deal with alleged players disruption,Covid 19 lay offs,players refusing to sign temporary extensions ,players leaving,injurys  but was given pelters on here...

 

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

Are you sure that's a good thing? Something to boast about?

 

Look where Watford are in the table. It's hardly a ringing endorsement of continually changing the manager, is it?

 

 

 

I'm not sure they will be for much longer, not least because of the owners itchy trigger finger. They've had plenty of good managers, but no patience.

 

In all seriousness, they're in 19th place in the PL and deep in a relegation scrap. We're in 8th in L1 and in contention for a play-off place. Our respective situations are hardly comparable.

What few scraps of ambition people cling to on here,now we are 8th in L1 and in contention for a play off place?...Just remaining in the PL brings rich's to Clubs beyond belief and is an achievement in itself,such is the rich;s in the game now....

Simply not a like for like comparison at all....

Deep down,do you really think we are a side under DM heading for a play off place? or are you just moving to the back of ship destined to sink,and not jumping till the last second? holding on to hope right to the last that somehow,we will pull off a promotion?

 

[torryowl]

10 hours ago, parajack said:

They have been there because they have delivered......not because their Chairman are 'patient' and 7 of our squad were with us in the Championship...PW  for example delivered in his first 2 seasons...

Of course they delivered they were given time to ...  took Ainsworth 5 years to get wycombe out of league 2.....warne after 5 years as rovrum in a lower position than when he took over  but they still back him  .....we dont as soon we hit a slippery  slope its bin the manager and get in another poor sap.