room0035 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Palmer has proved for more than a season that he is just as comfortable at left-back as he is at right-back. It may stop him from getting crosses in but if we play attacking as a 4-2-3-1 and leave the wingers free to do their jobs then the full-backs need to defend as a priority, not create chances. The stats this season so far show that what we have been best at is intercepting - https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/8/Seasons/8620/Stages/19795/TeamStatistics/England-League-One-2021-2022 - better than every team in the division. That's great, but to me this seems largely as a result of our tendency to sit in, we win the ball back in our half because we have so many players, including our supposed attacking ones, in defensive positions. When we do win the ball back through breaking up passes, we are too deep to do anything with it. By comparison, our stats for tackling are bottom-half - we aren't particularly good at winning the ball back in that situation and breaking forward, that's why having a ball winner like Luongo and Hutchinson in this formation is vital, to break play up and allow others to get further up field rather than all having to sit in to get the ball back. So basically DM is setting the team up not to lose, instead of setting the team up to win games. Players are reluctant to push forward and support the loan striker so instead he get isolated. The fact we are only averaging 3 shots on target for the last 7 games (6 were against Ipswich), means if the other team score we very rarely win the game. 5 from 6 games this season we have failed to win when the other team scored, the only exception is Wigan and we were 2-0 up when we conceded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: It's why we need brown in the team because he is a massive outlet with his pace as a winger to carry the ball up the pitch and its why we need Windass because he will drop in and closes the gap we leave between the attack and the midfield when we drop so deep. Which is what I said in other thread Hooper and Forestieri did magnificently. I think you are getting carried away with some of Windass link play. His passing and decision making at times left a lot to be desired. Our wingers have pace to get at players. Shodipo was one of the stand out players for a team that got to the play offs last season, play wingers in wide attack, not defenders who don't have as much end product or goal threat. In a 4-2-3-1 we don't need wide players to carry the ball up the pitch, we need them as a threat in the final 3rd. We need to play further forward as a team, not sit everyone behind the ball so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: I think you are getting carried away with some of Windass link play. His passing and decision making at times left a lot to be desired. Our wingers have pace to get at players. Shodipo was one of the stand out players for a team that got to the play offs last season, play wingers in wide attack, not defenders who don't have as much end product or goal threat. In a 4-2-3-1 we don't need wide players to carry the ball up the pitch, we need them as a threat in the final 3rd. We need to play further forward as a team, not sit everyone behind the ball so often. Our problems playing so deep come when players like Bannan, Wing, Hutchinson, Byers are all in the middle of the park. All want to receive the ball deep and play that pass. It empties the midfield. We need a false 9 type player to drop deep and cover the gaps. Or play only bannan in there and then the likes of Dele-Bashiru and Adeniran next to him, runners, workers. Its why Pelupessy next to Bannan worked ok. It's all a balancing act. But it all starts from a solid back four who are all capable of defending. When we have played that this season we haven't lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookesowl Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 BPF Palmer Iorfa Hutch Hunt. Brown Luongo Berahino Paterson. Bannan Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Our problems playing so deep come when players like Bannan, Wing, Hutchinson, Byers are all in the middle of the park. All want to receive the ball deep and play that pass. It empties the midfield. We need a false 9 type player to drop deep and cover the gaps. Or play only bannan in there and then the likes of Dele-Bashiru and Adeniran next to him, runners, workers. Its why Pelupessy next to Bannan worked ok. It's all a balancing act. But it all starts from a solid back four who are all capable of defending. When we have played that this season we haven't lost. You sound like Moore, we should be looking to win more often, not concentrate on not losing. We got hammered by Plymouth with the back 4 that you would pick. We lost to Oxford when playing Bannan as a winger for an abysmal 45 minutes. I agree on the need for legs in front of the deep lying midfielders. Adeniran for me, then the legs out wide, options to get in behind and also dribble at defenders. We are too deep as a team and playing a full-back as a wing forward does not help in that sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 32 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: You sound like Moore, we should be looking to win more often, not concentrate on not losing. We got hammered by Plymouth with the back 4 that you would pick. We lost to Oxford when playing Bannan as a winger for an abysmal 45 minutes. I agree on the need for legs in front of the deep lying midfielders. Adeniran for me, then the legs out wide, options to get in behind and also dribble at defenders. We are too deep as a team and playing a full-back as a wing forward does not help in that sense. The problem with the Plymouth game was playing 3 playmakers in midfield with no real defensive cover. I just feel in this league if you go all out attack with the, let them worry about us attitude. And you fill the team with attacking talent and not with workmen like players like Adeniran, Palmer and Paterson. You will get found out more often then not. Only because we aren't creating chance after chance doesn't make us a bad team and doesn't mean that eventually our luck will run out. Getting out of this division is the aim for Moore by any means nessecasry and so far its on course. We are still a work in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) Lol... this will be crazy line up but I'm starting to get Moore's selection qualms... we've got 8 forwards and 8 midfielders... fuckkkk.. With such an offensive squad (at least on paper), it's time to throw aside all the crap we've seen and launch a full on 3-4-3 offensive! I hereby give you HMS P$ss The League Vol. 2 K: BPF - yes, some howlers, but still a solid 1st choice with Wildsmith hot on his heels to keep him sharp LB: Liam Palmer CD : Dominic Iorfa RB: Jack Hunt LW: Theo Corbeanu CM: Barry Bannan CM: Dennis Adeniran RW: Lewis Wing F: Josh Windass F: Callum Paterson F: Lee Gregory There's a reason I'm not a football manager Edited October 12, 2021 by N0rtherner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNHARKES Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) BPF Hunt Iorfa Hutchinson Brown Luongo Bannan Corbeanu Windass Shodipo Gregory Edited October 12, 2021 by JOHNHARKES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickly Kevin Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 BPF Hunt Iorfa Hutchinson Brown Bannan Luongo Adenerain Paterson Gregory Berahino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, pazowl55 said: The problem with the Plymouth game was playing 3 playmakers in midfield with no real defensive cover. I just feel in this league if you go all out attack with the, let them worry about us attitude. And you fill the team with attacking talent and not with workmen like players like Adeniran, Palmer and Paterson. You will get found out more often then not. Only because we aren't creating chance after chance doesn't make us a bad team and doesn't mean that eventually our luck will run out. Getting out of this division is the aim for Moore by any means nessecasry and so far its on course. We are still a work in progress. We'd be top 6 and improving if we were on track, not get worse than when we started the season. I have never said go all out attack and have advocated playing a proper holding midfielder and the energy of Adeniran. Playing proper wingers/wide attackers in the attacking positions rather than a full-back and a completely out of position striker just makes sense. If not then play a different formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 442 !! Attacking possession based football ala Carlos season 1. Peacock-Farrell Hunt Iorfa Hutchinson Brown Johnson Adenrian Luongo Bannan Gregory Corbeanau 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 3 hours ago, pazowl55 said: The problem with the Plymouth game was playing 3 playmakers in midfield with no real defensive cover. I just feel in this league if you go all out attack with the, let them worry about us attitude. And you fill the team with attacking talent and not with workmen like players like Adeniran, Palmer and Paterson. You will get found out more often then not. Only because we aren't creating chance after chance doesn't make us a bad team and doesn't mean that eventually our luck will run out. Getting out of this division is the aim for Moore by any means nessecasry and so far its on course. We are still a work in progress. Your right in what your saying we should go that way as in all out attack let them worry about us but we need a solid diamond at the back as we had in 2015. So for example if we had Peacock-Farrell Iorfa Hutchinson Luongo Every week then we could go with that tactic ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 On 11/10/2021 at 16:33, jonnyowl said: I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't put Bannan in the first 11. Best player by a mile! But where do you play him ??? LM in a 442 for me is only place he fits where you can get best out of him, without sacrificing part of the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said: We'd be top 6 and improving if we were on track, not get worse than when we started the season. I have never said go all out attack and have advocated playing a proper holding midfielder and the energy of Adeniran. Playing proper wingers/wide attackers in the attacking positions rather than a full-back and a completely out of position striker just makes sense. If not then play a different formation. Give Moore a bit more time to get used to the players and a tactic. I think we will get better than more the season goes on. As for Brown and Berahino as wingers. To me that says more about just how poor the likes of Sow, Corbeanu and Shodipo must be, or at least what they mustn't be showing in training. Or even what that are not willing to do when they don't have the ball. Then it does about Moore's strange selection choices. Once they get used to what Moore wants from them I am sure we will see them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Give Moore a bit more time to get used to the players and a tactic. I think we will get better than more the season goes on. As for Brown and Berahino as wingers. To me that says more about just how poor the likes of Sow, Corbeanu and Shodipo must be, or at least what they mustn't be showing in training. Or even what that are not willing to do when they don't have the ball. Then it does about Moore's strange selection choices. Once they get used to what Moore wants from them I am sure we will see them more. We are supposed to be improving and gelling with time, the concern is we are going the other way. Shodipo was overwhelmingly man of the match on here V Shrewsbury, a better all round performance than Berahino and Brown have offered in wide attack, but they continue to be picked out of position. Corbeanu outperformed Berahino by some distance in midweek, Berahino still gets seleected at the weekend in a position that doesn't best suit him. If the wingers are not pulling up their socks in training fair enough, but don't continue to use a formation and approach that relies on wide attackers if you aren't going to pick them. Bannan wide right of the attack a fortnight ago followed by a completely failed 3-4-3 with no wingers against Bolton first half suggests it will be difficult to get used to what Moore wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Giovanni Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said: 442 !! Attacking possession based football ala Carlos season 1. Peacock-Farrell Hunt Iorfa Hutchinson Brown Johnson Adenrian Luongo Bannan Gregory Corbeanau This is THE one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Daniele Giovanni said: This is THE one You were adamant you weren't including Bannan a couple of hours ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Giovanni Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: You were adamant you weren't including Bannan a couple of hours ago! He's found his way back from Penistone Road 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpowl Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Hating the one up top or the two wide attackers gregory has been far too isolated now maybe because of our style of play or formation but I’ve not seen enough of the wide players yet so I’m going for a 3-5-2 we can use our abundance of attacking players later on in the game to change it if needs be 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Dutch McLovin said: But where do you play him ??? LM in a 442 for me is only place he fits where you can get best out of him, without sacrificing part of the team. Not for me, middle of a three. but for me its more who he plays with not where he plays. Needs players in front of him that make runs or move into space. I think if we played with more pace out wide and Widnass upfront he'd you'd get more out of Bannan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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