Financial Fair Play

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

2 hours ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Chansiri did invest in the club but with a short term plan that failed. 
And I agree we are in the mire as a result of our transfers and spending.

What amazes me though is I genuinely don’t recall anyone on Owlstalk raising their concerns when the chairman was bringing in player after player. Even when we fell short at Wembley nobody questioned the gamble.

Did all our fans think we were paying small fees and low wages to established, quality championship players? 
FF, Abdi, Fletcher, Pudil, Rhodes.

Nobody piped up until they realised the plan had failed. 
Nobody came on here and screamed for the chairman to spend on the money on an academy or scouting network, which wouldn’t  guarantee success either:

 

Some of us did.

[westy365owl]

3 hours ago, Quist said:

The punishment is based on a 3 year period. Once a punishment has been delivered on those three sets of accounts you need another 3 sets of accounts before a further punishment can be inflicted. The first three sets have been ruled upon you can not use them again. To put it simply you can not be punished twice for same offence. It is a basic law premise. If EFL did try it shows what idiots the are and any legal tribunal or court would throw it out.  When teams relegated it states have to have3 years of accounts in division.

 

What you are saying makes no sense and you will see in due course.

I thought the double jeopardy law had been scrapped so you can be tried twice for same offence now ?

[DJMortimer]

4 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Thanks Nigel.
We played Huddersfield in on 17th May 17.

Interesting that the soothsayers started to raise concerns after we failed. 
The day after according to the first of the posts shared. 

 

I checked a grand total of 6 pages that happened to be from that time. But to have finished 4th and have so many questions being asked is comment enough surely? 

 

And once again - aren't the supporters justified in expecting that those running the club have some kind of strategy in place that wouldn't leave us in this situation? You're representing this as if we had full transparency on the financial situation, when in truth we hadn't a clue.

[Sweet Shezza]

7 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

The gamble should have had a risk-management alternative in place in case the gamble failed. The gamble should not take 4 seasons and counting to recover from with no light at the end of the tunnel in sight even now. 

I agree that there was no contingency. 
If you’re paying high wages for a player in their prime you’re going to struggle to offload them when it all goes wrong. A bit like teams relegated from

the prem without contract clauses for relegation. We’ve been severely lacking and are now paying the price.

There was no plan B.

[Sweet Shezza]

Just now, DJMortimer said:

 

I checked a grand total of 6 pages that happened to be from that time. But to have finished 4th and have so many questions being asked is comment enough surely? 

 

And once again - aren't the supporters justified in expecting that those running the club have some kind of strategy in place that wouldn't leave us in this situation? You're representing this as if we had full transparency on the financial situation, when in truth we hadn't a clue.

My point is you don’t need full transparency it was obvious from the signings and fees we were gambling with finances.

We signed players in their prime from promotion winnings sides. 
Knockheart hasn’t signed for Forest as a favour to his old manager. He will be on top dollar.

I don’t need to see his Natwest account to tell you that. 
 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

I agree that there was no contingency. 
If you’re paying high wages for a player in their prime you’re going to struggle to offload them when it all goes wrong. A bit like teams relegated from

the prem without contract clauses for relegation. We’ve been severely lacking and are now paying the price.

There was no plan B.

 

There you go - whose fault is that? 

[Guest Grandad]

I stood up at the first Fans Forum (and the only one Ive attended since Chansiri arrived) in (I think it was) March 2015

 

I urged him not to price fans out of attending Hillsborough - and to be careful of FFP (I was one of a few who urged him not to fall foul of FFP on the night)

 

He famously replied that FFP would not be a problem - and came across incredibly arrogant - when he smiled and said "we have plans" for that - at the time it was disputed and others thought he said "we have friends" - either way it was a terrible answer and said everything about the reckless approach he would take - and what has bitten us on the arse since then.

Regarding fans it was even worse. They'll have to drink less and smoke less to afford to come - and I will price it high to keep away fans away.

 

I was appalled - but having been heavily involved in the politics of the club I decided I was having none of it and would stick to commenting on Owlstalk.  And thats what I did - and gave the Chairmn the benefit of the doubt until just 2 years later I attended the Radio Sheffield pre season managers forum and Carlos admitted we couldnt sign anybody for a fee because of FFP.

 

Two years. Thats all it took.

 

The following day I explained on Owlstalk and was roundly abused (nothing new) for highlighting the issue.

 

People have warned agains the irresponsible approach to our spending throughout the Chansiri reign. 

I'll happily admit I really enjoyed the first 2 seasons - and spent the time hoping that he really did have plans (or friends) who would help us avoid the hangover.

 

 

 

As it turned out - he had neither.

[Manwë]

4 hours ago, Lime Tree Heros said:

 

This could be solved relatively simply, by having Parachute payments paid into an escrow account administered by the EFL and only released to the relevant clubs on receipt of evidence of payment of existing prem contracts.

Why do people say this, like it's simple?

 

The EPL and EFL are different entities, the EPL was created to be explicitly different from the EFL.  The rules of the EPL are such that they decided that their (former)members will be paid money if they are relegated to the EFL.  It's got nothing to do with the EFL at all.  

 

And which selfish and greedy clubs voted for the formation of the EPL away from the EFL?  Step forward, Sheffield Wednesday.

[DJMortimer]

So in summary...

 

The chairman was spending money that, in terms of the league's financial restrictions, we didn't have.

The chairman evidently had no strategy in place for dealing with the fallout if the plan failed.

The chairman apparently late in the day settled on selling the stadium and made a pig's ear of it.

The chairman failed to persuade an independent panel that the club had operated within the rules, resulting in a points deduction.

 

But it's the supporters fault for not predicting something like this and castigating the chairman in advance?

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

6 minutes ago, Grandad said:

I stood up at the first Fans Forum (and the only one Ive attended since Chansiri arrived) in (I think it was) March 2015

 

I urged him not to price fans out of attending Hillsborough - and to be careful of FFP (I was one of a few who urged him not to fall foul of FFP on the night)

 

He famously replied that FFP would not be a problem - and came across incredibly arrogant - when he smiled and said "we have plans" for that - at the time it was disputed and others thought he said "we have friends" - either way it was a terrible answer and said everything about the reckless approach he would take - and what has bitten us on the arse since then.

Regarding fans it was even worse. They'll have to drink less and smoke less to afford to come - and I will price it high to keep away fans away.

 

I was appalled - but having been heavily involved in the politics of the club I decided I was having none of it and would stick to commenting on Owlstalk.  And thats what I did - and gave the Chairmn the benefit of the doubt until just 2 years later I attended the Radio Sheffield pre season managers forum and Carlos admitted we couldnt sign anybody for a fee because of FFP.

 

Two years. Thats all it took.

 

The following day I explained on Owlstalk and was roundly abused (nothing new) for highlighting the issue.

 

People have warned agains the irresponsible approach to our spending throughout the Chansiri reign. 

I'll happily admit I really enjoyed the first 2 seasons - and spent the time hoping that he really did have plans (or friends) who would help us avoid the hangover.

 

 

 

As it turned out - he had neither.

Thought he could just come in and splash the cash. Nothing more than an expensive gamble to get to the Premier League and make as much money as possible. Simple as that. 

 

Ironically when he first joined he said he’d spend in a sustainable way and chucking money at it wasn’t the answer. Then he proceeded to do the exact opposite.

 

[Sweet Shezza]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

There you go - whose fault is that? 

Chansiri has got it badly wrong.

I have never disputed this point.

The club’s a basket case.

I have never disputed this either.
It’s his project and it’s failed. Never disputed this.

what I can’t abide is the growing vitriol.

Fans didn’t point the finger when they thought we had a chance of promotion.

The unrest has grown since the Huddersfield semi and I think it a little two faves

3 minutes ago, Grandad said:

I stood up at the first Fans Forum (and the only one Ive attended since Chansiri arrived) in (I think it was) March 2015

 

I urged him not to price fans out of attending Hillsborough - and to be careful of FFP (I was one of a few who urged him not to fall foul of FFP on the night)

 

He famously replied that FFP would not be a problem - and came across incredibly arrogant - when he smiled and said "we have plans" for that - at the time it was disputed and others thought he said "we have friends" - either way it was a terrible answer and said everything about the reckless approach he would take - and what has bitten us on the arse since then.

Regarding fans it was even worse. They'll have to drink less and smoke less to afford to come - and I will price it high to keep away fans away.

 

I was appalled - but having been heavily involved in the politics of the club I decided I was having none of it and would stick to commenting on Owlstalk.  And thats what I did - and gave the Chairmn the benefit of the doubt until just 2 years later I attended the Radio Sheffield pre season managers forum and Carlos admitted we couldnt sign anybody for a fee because of FFP.

 

Two years. Thats all it took.

 

The following day I explained on Owlstalk and was roundly abused (nothing new) for highlighting the issue.

 

People have warned agains the irresponsible approach to our spending throughout the Chansiri reign. 

I'll happily admit I really enjoyed the first 2 seasons - and spent the time hoping that he really did have plans (or friends) who would help us avoid the hangover.

 

 

 

As it turned out - he had neither.

I don’t dispute this.

Or the fact he couldn’t have made a bigger mess of the club.

I just don’t think he deserves the growing vitriol.

Like you I realised he was gambling but was happy with the go for broke mentality. I was happy to see us take the risk.

I think it’s fickle of many fans to only raise their concerns after the Huddersfield semi when the party was clearly over. 
That’s what bugs me.

Everybody wants to back a different horse in the race after their horse lost. 

 

 

[Sweet Shezza]

3 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

So in summary...

 

The chairman was spending money that, in terms of the league's financial restrictions, we didn't have.

The chairman evidently had no strategy in place for dealing with the fallout if the plan failed.

The chairman apparently late in the day settled on selling the stadium and made a pig's ear of it.

The chairman failed to persuade an independent panel that the club had operated within the rules, resulting in a points deduction.

 

But it's the supporters fault for not predicting something like this and castigating the chairman in advance?

 

 

He made a pigs ear of the sale but the overspend was obvious from the start. Ray Charles could see it coming. 
did you not think we were going for broke when we assembled the big names?

My point isn’t about the overspend. 
it’s about the fans who claim they didn’t realise it was happening. 
Very few gave a monkey’s when we were in the play offs.

The chairman only started to lose friends when it was obvious he’d failed. 
 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Chansiri has got it badly wrong.

I have never disputed this point.

The club’s a basket case.

I have never disputed this either.
It’s his project and it’s failed. Never disputed this.

what I can’t abide is the growing vitriol.

Fans didn’t point the finger when they thought we had a chance of promotion.

The unrest has grown since the Huddersfield semi and I think it a little two faves

I don’t dispute this.

Or the fact he couldn’t have made a bigger mess of the club.

I just don’t think he deserves the growing vitriol.

Like you I realised he was gambling but was happy with the go for broke mentality. I was happy to see us take the risk.

I think it’s fickle of many fans to only raise their concerns after the Huddersfield semi when the party was clearly over. 
That’s what bugs me.

Everybody wants to back a different horse in the race after their horse lost. 

 

 

 

 

Would you not expect the growing unrest to increase when things get worse, to the extent that we get a points deduction due to the mismanagement and find ourselves in the bottom 3?

 

How is it two faced? All fans went their club to be successful, they are also surely entitled to expect the club to be run competently behind the scenes. It is understandable that fans voice their concerns when their club starts a season on minus points due to the way it has been run. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

He made a pigs ear of the sale but the overspend was obvious from the start. Ray Charles could see it coming. 
did you not think we were going for broke when we assembled the big names?

My point isn’t about the overspend. 
it’s about the fans who claim they didn’t realise it was happening. 
Very few gave a monkey’s when we were in the play offs.

The chairman only started to lose friends when it was obvious he’d failed. 
 

 

Again, most fans realised we were overspending, some weren't concerned at all, some had concerns but hoped that the club had a plan B if the gamble didn't pay off, others like @Grandaddid express doubts very early on about the belief in any plan B.

 

As you said yourself, the club seemingly had no plan B, or certainly not an effective one. That has left us where we are and fans have every right to show concerns in that regard. 

[DJMortimer]

1 minute ago, Sweet Shezza said:

He made a pigs ear of the sale but the overspend was obvious from the start. Ray Charles could see it coming. 
did you not think we were going for broke when we assembled the big names?

My point isn’t about the overspend. 
it’s about the fans who claim they didn’t realise it was happening. 
Very few gave a monkey’s when we were in the play offs.

The chairman only started to lose friends when it was obvious he’d failed. 
 

 

I was concerned about it fairly early on and especially so after the totally unnecessary purchase of Jordan Rhodes, even before it became evident he was hopeless. It's clear I'm far from the only one, as @Grandad highlighted previously for one. 

 

But not everyone wants to concern themselves with the club's boardroom shenanigans; as evidenced by the relative lack of activity in that section of Owlstalk even when those issues were dominating the atmosphere. For them it's about meeting their mates, enjoying the game and discussing where it went right or wrong.

 

Don't they have every right to leave the responsible administration of the club to it's executives? And if these strategies reduce our competitiveness, as it surely has for a prolonged period, then why wouldn't they criticise? As for clarity, I agree that there were indications of the gamble, but even now our exact circumstances are far from being clearly established. 

[RichSheffWeds]

The key factors for me in our downfall have been : 

 

1. Not selling players when they were worth significant money. We all know the list. Probably cost us £30m in fees. Some of us were asking to sell players consistently. 
 

2. Signing older demotivated players looking for their last big payday instead of buying younger, well regarded players who would potentially have sell on value 2-3 years down the line. 
 

These two mistakes have screwed us. 
 

 

[Sweet Shezza]

21 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

 

Would you not expect the growing unrest to increase when things get worse, to the extent that we get a points deduction due to the mismanagement and find ourselves in the bottom 3?

 

How is it two faced? All fans went their club to be successful, they are also surely entitled to expect the club to be run competently behind the scenes. It is understandable that fans voice their concerns when their club starts a season on minus points due to the way it has been run. 

Good point, thinks have gotten worse but what could he have done differently since the plan failed?

Would you sign Jordan Rhodes and pay his wages?

How do you get shut of high earning under performers?

I get this but it was always going to be the case.

You got to pay the big bucks to land the big players.

I bet Chansiri wishes he'd recruited up and coming on little wages instead of proven on big ones.

[Quist]

1 hour ago, westy365owl said:

I thought the double jeopardy law had been scrapped so you can be tried twice for same offence now ?

If they successfully prosecute you first time they do not use same evidence to do it again.

It is not double jeopardy it is basic common sense. 

 

 

 

[room0035]

2 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Im fully in support of selling players at their peak (if necessary) 

 

But people ring off this name of clubs, Brentford, Preston, Bristol City, like they’re something we’re supposed to be impressed by 

 

None of them have come close to getting into the Premier League 

 

If you sell prudently and go up, it looks good 

 

If you sell your best players each year and hover around mid table in the championship each season, then you’re nothing more then a selling/feeder  club 

It's about managing a club to stay within the rules.

 

DC and his fans make too many excuses for him being unable to run a football club with a pre agreed budget. Like it's unfair yet every other team managed it.

 

 

[room0035]

1 hour ago, Quist said:

If they successfully prosecute you first time they do not use same evidence to do it again.

It is not double jeopardy it is basic common sense. 

 

 

 

It's a 3 year rolling calculation when 1 season finish you lose the oldest season and add on the current year.

 

 

I think you have been watching too much America tv shows.