Financial Fair Play

[@owlstalk]

33 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Chansiri did invest in the club but with a short term plan that failed. 
And I agree we are in the mire as a result of our transfers and spending.

What amazes me though is I genuinely don’t recall anyone on Owlstalk raising their concerns when the chairman was bringing in player after player. Even when we fell short at Wembley nobody questioned the gamble.

Did all our fans think we were paying small fees and low wages to established, quality championship players? 
FF, Abdi, Fletcher, Pudil, Rhodes.

Nobody piped up until they realised the plan had failed. 
Nobody came on here and screamed for the chairman to spend on the money on an academy or scouting network, which wouldn’t  guarantee success either:

 

 

 

 

That's totally rewriting history

Plenty were  shoutiing about it and warning of the consequences but they were abused, told to shut up, and called 'not proper fans' by the Uberfans

Let's not be making stuff up like the entirety off your post just attempted

[Quist]

1 hour ago, Mcguigan said:

Not sure what part doesn’t make sense to him.

 

That’s not true at all. It’s a rolling period. You don’t wait for a new 3 year period of accounts if there’s been a breach in one of three years before.

 

Like wise, you can’t threaten legal proceedings against the EFL as its their competition and their rules, voted and agreed on by their members, ie Sheffield Wednesday.

 

We can’t then take them to court because we’ve broken the rules that voted for.

We will see.

[keepitsteel89]

It's like we're playing moneyball only we think the most important data point is time at club

[DJMortimer]

1 hour ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Chansiri did invest in the club but with a short term plan that failed. 
And I agree we are in the mire as a result of our transfers and spending.

What amazes me though is I genuinely don’t recall anyone on Owlstalk raising their concerns when the chairman was bringing in player after player. Even when we fell short at Wembley nobody questioned the gamble.

Did all our fans think we were paying small fees and low wages to established, quality championship players? 
FF, Abdi, Fletcher, Pudil, Rhodes.

Nobody piped up until they realised the plan had failed. 
Nobody came on here and screamed for the chairman to spend on the money on an academy or scouting network, which wouldn’t  guarantee success either:

 

 

I certainly was concerned about it, whether I expressed it on here or not (can't remember to be honest). But how are supporters expected to react? They have every right to expect that those running the club are doing so in a responsible and sustainable manner. It's not as if the chairman was constantly reminding us what a risk we were taking.. Had they known the truth, I dare say quite a few would have been alarmed. and let's face it, we still don't know what the financial situation really is. One wonders if the authorities do either,  given the delay in publishing our accounts.

[SallyCinnamon]

I actually dread to think where we’d be without FFP under Chansiri. I think it has actually saved the club from self-imploding on itself. 

[Sweet Shezza]

56 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

That's totally rewriting history

Plenty were  shoutiing about it and warning of the consequences but they were abused, told to shut up, and called 'not proper fans' by the Uberfans

Let's not be making stuff up like the entirety off your post just attempted

Show us the posts and when they were made. I’ll gladly apologise if you can show me who was moaning without the benefit of hindsight.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Show us the posts and when they were made. I’ll gladly apologise if you can show me who was moaning without the benefit of hindsight.

I don't need to

You're the one making claims to the contrary when it's not true

If you'd done the research or had the knowledge you would have known there have been many warning of the exact situation we are now in

Every one of them were told to shut up and slagged off for raising concerns

 

[SallyCinnamon]

6 hours ago, Grandad said:

But our Chairman is supposed to have "unlimited funds"

 

He said so himself

This is the thing. I thought it was just the EFL stopping him spending his money? If he has the money why can’t we play players on time? That’s what confuses me. DC apologists have spent the past few years blaming the EFL for not letting the chairman spend what he wants. But that same chairman is now not paying players on time. Surely wouldn’t be an issue if he has loads of money to spend? People keep saying every club is having cash flow problems, they probably are but to my knowledge only us and Derby have struggled to pay players since Covid. If there are more clubs I stand corrected. Plus let’s not forget the first story about players not receiving their full pay came in December 2019 pre-Covid. Which is strange? 
 

And didn’t he once say our money counts for very little? Apologies if this is wrong, but I’m sure he said this once. If that’s the case, why we struggling to pay players on time? So much so they had to go to the PFA.

[FreshOwl]

2 hours ago, room0035 said:

Yet Brentford, Swansea, Bristol City, Preston and every other team do it without breaking FFP.

 

Financial Fair play is just an excuse for clubs that cannot manage their finance correctly.

 

Our problem was the £10m in wages sat in the stands every season, Rhodes, Hooper, Foresteri, Abdi, Matias, Hutchinson, Westwood the list goes on with players not playing week in week out.

Im fully in support of selling players at their peak (if necessary) 

 

But people ring off this name of clubs, Brentford, Preston, Bristol City, like they’re something we’re supposed to be impressed by 

 

None of them have come close to getting into the Premier League 

 

If you sell prudently and go up, it looks good 

 

If you sell your best players each year and hover around mid table in the championship each season, then you’re nothing more then a selling/feeder  club 

[Hookowl]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

This is the thing. I thought it was just the EFL stopping him spending his money? If he has the money why can’t we play players on time? That’s what confuses me. DC apologists have spent the past few years blaming the EFL for not letting the chairman spend what he wants. But that same chairman is now not paying players on time. Surely wouldn’t be an issue if he has loads of money to spend? People keep saying every club is having cash flow problems, they probably are but to my knowledge only us and Derby have struggled to pay players since Covid. If there are more clubs I stand corrected. Plus let’s not forget the first story about players not receiving their full pay came in December 2019 pre-Covid. Which is strange? 
 

And didn’t he once say our money counts for very little? Apologies if this is wrong, but I’m sure he said this once. If that’s the case, why we struggling to pay players on time? So much so they had to go to the PFA.

 

I'm not apologising for him Sal but on the bit I've highlighted, whether our money counts for much or not. I would say the reason we have struggled to pay players on time is down to cash flow problems, something that the majority of clubs are experiencing at this present time.

[Sweet Shezza]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I don't need to

You're the one making claims to the contrary when it's not true

If you'd done the research or had the knowledge you would have known there have been many warning of the exact situation we are now in

Every one of them were told to shut up and slagged off for raising concerns

 

My point is they didn’t start complaining until it was obvious we weren’t going up. 
Happy to apologise if you can evidence the moaners pre Huddersfield semi.

It’s easy to blame the chairman after the plan has failed. 
 

 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Sweet Shezza said:

My point is they didn’t start complaining until it was obvious we weren’t going up.  

That's not what you claimed

And you're still wrong anyway

There were plenty warning of overspending and potential issues and consequences

The ones warning of it were attacked, told to shut up, and abused by the uberfans who think that warning of consequences or challenging crazy decisions by the chairman are somehow anti-swfc

 

 

[DJMortimer]

12 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Show us the posts and when they were made. I’ll gladly apologise if you can show me who was moaning without the benefit of hindsight.

 

This lot all came from just 6 pages...

  

On 18/05/2017 at 20:43, BEARBEAR said:

Overspent and underachieved, so worse. 

 

Not good enough. 

 

Can't afford to thrown money at it again like last two seasons, and not go up. Expect cut backs. 

 

On 18/05/2017 at 20:48, RUMBELOWS91 said:

There's undoubtedly some juggling going on behind the scenes with transfer fees etc.

 

I'm guessing we could do with a large cash injection in the next year's figures, which can only really come from player sales as far as FFP is concerned.

 

i think a good cash up front offer for one of our more sellable assets will be hard to refuse now. We've been spending well beyond FFP this season I'm sure.

 

On 08/08/2017 at 18:03, hirstyboywonder said:

 

This might come as a shock to you but Brighton 'mis-managed' their finances far more than we did over the last couple of seasons. Most teams in this division will be running at a loss without parachute payments. Doesn't make it right but there is little way of competing without overspending. The gamble will pay off for some and not for others.

 

On 08/08/2017 at 17:58, kobayashi said:

Those gambling with a business with costs in the mid to high £30m's and revenues in the low to mid £20m's

 

On 08/08/2017 at 17:05, kobayashi said:

When you are (mis)managing a business losing £10-£15m a year you cannot afford to ignore any profit...drop in the ocean or not.

 

On 08/08/2017 at 14:29, The Night-Owl said:

Having read the star article about Chansiri and FFP, the first thing that struck me about it, why is there a picture of Chansiri on there with Peter Ridsdale? 

Chansiri talks sense about FFP but then why have we brought in so many players; older players and why do we insist on not selling anyone? Other top clubs at this level make money from sales and then reinvest some of it in the team. Player sales and sponsorship, etc are ways of getting around FFP without bleeding the fans dry. What worries me most is that picture with Peter Ridsdale. Someone tell me in order to calm my nerves and anxiety, that Ridsdale isn't one of the people giving Chansiri advice? Because after seeing what he did at Leeds and Cardiff among others, that alarms me, if that's the type of person that Chansiri is listening to and turning to for advice. 

 

On 08/08/2017 at 15:05, g-owls said:

 

Ok then.

 

If that's the case why has Chansiri allowed him to continue, if Chansiri himself is aware of FFP restrictions?

 

The tea lady could decide on the signings for all it matters, the money comes from the top either way and is sanctioned by the owner.

 

We've stockpiled players in the hope we could get promotion and the question is what's happening if we fall short again? 

 

On 08/08/2017 at 13:37, Geoffrey said:

Forestieri got a big new deal as reward for refusing to play. Westwood, Lees and Lee all agreed new deals.

 

A lot of the experts on here have been in denial over FFP through the summer.

 

On 08/08/2017 at 13:46, PEARSON said:

 

This. The real un-sustainable situation is our transfer policy. Nobody can deny we've wasted millions. We've made bizarre signings like Urby, have big earners in our reserves in McGugan (who we seemingly refuse to sell) and a big squad with big wages. Chansiris done wonders for SWFC but I think that mainly comes from chucking money at our first team. I don't think he's a particularly savvy or talented chairman. I can't remember us selling a player for anything under him and we're now as fans expected to pay the highest prices in the league. That's not sustainable. A bad season and I worry Chansiri wouldnt know how to turn it around if his hands are tied in terms of financial muscle.

 

[Guest Grandad]

16 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

Show us the posts and when they were made. I’ll gladly apologise if you can show me who was moaning without the benefit of hindsight.

How far do you want me to go back?

[Sweet Shezza]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

That's not what you claimed

And you're still wrong anyway

There were plenty warning of overspending and potential issues and consequences

The ones warning of it were attacked, told to shut up, and abused by the uberfans who think that warning of consequences or challenging crazy decisions by the chairman are somehow anti-swfc

 

 

He went for broke and failed. 
You don’t have to be a genius to work out he was gambling. 
It was obvious from who he signed, their fees and wages.

Fair play to anybody who piped up at the start.

The vast majority of Sheffield Wednesday fans were happy when he was gambling but ain’t so happy now he’s lost.

If they changed the rules and wiped our account clean next season would the majority of fans moan if we signed the championship 11 of the season or would they protest that he was gambling again?

I reckon they’d be rushing to the bookies to get on, not painting protest banners. 
 

[FreshOwl]

2 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

This lot all came from just 6 pages...

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems the consensus in there is that we took a gamble and it didn’t pay off. The same can be said of every other club who got taken over and threw money at it

 

We’ve made some bizarre signings, but again, every club makes bizarre signings. Is every player signed expected to go on and achieve hero status? Seriously, have a look at other clubs dealings and you could ring off plenty of names at each club of transfers that didn’t work out 

I don’t doubt that we could be run better, but I swear Wednesday fans think it’s an issue exclusive to our club. 
 

when you support a team you are oblivious to what goes on elsewhere, but usually it’s very similar to what we’re experiencing 

 

It’s like when I was reading a thread on here a few weeks back with some posters claiming that Wednesday are 5X worse off than any other team on getting injuries and that we are cursed as a club .

 

But a quick search showed we were nowhere near the worst team for injuries in the league, we were actually one of the better ones 

 

 

 

[Guest Mcguigan]

29 minutes ago, Quist said:

We will see.

See about what?

 

Your 3 year reset theory has already being proved wrong by Birmingham, that’s what I’m trying to tell you.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

This lot all came from just 6 pages...

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair I wasn't exactly moaning, jut pointing out the reality of the situation.

 

However, your previous post is spot on in saying that we would have expected the club to have a financial plan and understanding of how to manage this in the longer-term.

The club had a clear plan for promotion in 2 years, it was clear this would involve over-spending. My belief was that if this plan failed, we would sell some of the assets we had signed on long-term contracts for a decent fee, have a season or two of rebuild and then look to go again.

This never happened and as a result we are continuing to pay for a failed promotion push 4 seasons after the event with little sign that it will change any time soon. That to me me is financial mismanagement and has nothing to do with fans having hindsight or how our spending was perceived at the time. 

As you said - we have every right to expect that those running the club are doing so in a responsible and sustainable manner.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Sweet Shezza said:

He went for broke and failed. 
You don’t have to be a genius to work out he was gambling. 
It was obvious from who he signed, their fees and wages.

Fair play to anybody who piped up at the start.

The vast majority of Sheffield Wednesday fans were happy when he was gambling but ain’t so happy now he’s lost.

If they changed the rules and wiped our account clean next season would the majority of fans moan if we signed the championship 11 of the season or would they protest that he was gambling again?

I reckon they’d be rushing to the bookies to get on, not painting protest banners. 
 

 

The gamble should have had a risk-management alternative in place in case the gamble failed. The gamble should not take 4 seasons and counting to recover from with no light at the end of the tunnel in sight even now. 

[Sweet Shezza]

4 minutes ago, Grandad said:

How far do you want me to go back?

Thanks Nigel.
We played Huddersfield in on 17th May 17.

Interesting that the soothsayers started to raise concerns after we failed. 
The day after according to the first of the posts shared.