@owlstalk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Am so sick of those fans who come on saying either this mess is all the fans fault, or that fans shouldn’t be concerned or complaining about our current state because we got to Wembley five years ago It’s beyond ***** stupid 3 3 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 This mess is all the fans fault, fans shouldn’t be concerned or complaining because we got to Wembley five years ago. Signed DC a real fan (not Dejphon Chansiri, another DC. Dave C, or something) . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I think we should put some money into the Chansiri, Paixo and Alonso slush fund, sorry, player buying pot, by buying 10 year season tickets and joining a club we can all pay loads of money into to be spent now and paid back when we get in the prem. Who's in? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Unfair. There's a difference between having the money and not being allowed to spend it, and not having the money and gambling on success by borrowing it in. We were in the former group. Somebody posted a table of all the clubs who'd gone up in recent years, and the majority of them were either parachute or they'd been in the PL very recently. Unless you have the luck of United, or the history of Leeds, how else are you supposed to get promoted save by gambling? Sustainability takes years to implement...and youth development has never been our forte, to put it mildly. Edited January 24, 2021 by Athelwulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 As it’s probably been stated a million times..the issue isn’t FFP (yet modern football dictates it is). its the fact that football was bought from us years ago and we were all happy to go along with Monday night Sky fixtures with parachuting clowns landing on the centre circle before a thrilling encounter between Bolton Wanderers and Crystal Palace. Football is dead. Face facts...the FA Cup is looked on like leper colony by the big wigs who see it as an inconvenience to their premiership ‘also ran’ status.. bring back crap pitches, bovril, family meeting up on the Kop, proper tackles, one sub etc etc etc.. you can stick modern football up your Harris. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Athelwulf said: Unfair. There's a difference between having the money and not being allowed to spend it, and not having the money and gambling on success by borrowing it in. We were in the former group. Somebody posted a table of all the clubs who'd gone up in recent years, and the majority of them were either parachute or they'd been in the PL very recently. Unless you have the luck of United, or the history of Leeds, how else are you supposed to get promoted save by gambling? Sustainability takes years to implement...and youth development has never been our forte, to put it mildly. Not true, I’m afraid. Only 5 of 16 clubs promoted in DC’s reign have had PP. 21 hours ago, Mcguigan said: In DC’s time in charge, 16 clubs have gained promotion and, to my knowledge in that time, only Bournemouth have faced any penalties for breaching FFP, that was under the older more limited losses regulations. Only 5 of those 16 clubs were promoted back whilst receiving PP’s as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Athelwulf said: Somebody posted a table of all the clubs who'd gone up in recent years, and the majority of them were either parachute or they'd been in the PL very recently. Stop This is NOT TRUE Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Mcguigan said: Not true, I’m afraid. Only 5 of 16 clubs promoted in DC’s reign have had PP. I didn't say that they were all in receipt of PP at the time of promotion. I said that many of them had been in the PL recently. Or to put it another way, they'd not been absent for two decades, as we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Athelwulf said: I didn't say that they were all in receipt of PP at the time of promotion. I said that many of them had been in the PL recently. Or to put it another way, they'd not been absent for two decades, as we have. No you said the majority of them were, which like I said is wrong. Also, when you say in the PL recently you can’t blame me for thinking the last 5/6 years or so not two decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mcguigan said: No you said the majority of them were, which like I said is wrong. Also, when you say in the PL recently you can’t blame me for thinking the last 5/6 years or so not two decades. They're teams like Norwich, Fulham, Watford, Wolves etc, which are up and down. Hull, 'Boro and 'Udders have had short stints up there too. Every time it happens, they get a pay-out. Then you've got Villa and Newcastle, established PL sides which went down for a bit and then bounced back. We're not lucky like 'Udders and the Blades, and we don't have the Revie years to attract a Bielsa. All we've got's Chansiri's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, Athelwulf said: They're teams like Norwich, Fulham, Watford, Wolves etc, which are up and down. Hull, 'Boro and 'Udders have had short stints up there too. Every time it happens, they get a pay-out. Then you've got Villa and Newcastle, established PL sides which went down for a bit and then bounced back. We're not lucky like 'Udders and the Blades, and we don't have the Revie years to attract a Bielsa. All we've got's Chansiri's money. There’s been 39 opportunities to get promoted since clubs started receiving PP. The number of clubs promoted, in that period, with no PP payments in the period is 26 or 66%. There’s also more clubs that benefited from PP that never got promoted back than ones that did. PP or P&S rules aren’t really a clear marker for not getting promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Think we would have more cause for complaint if we were up and around play off places and kept missing out as other clubs with parachute payments kept signing more expensive players and just pipping up to go up. Our current predicament is down to the club being badly run no matter what the rules were. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Mcguigan said: There’s been 39 opportunities to get promoted since clubs started receiving PP. The number of clubs promoted, in that period, with no PP payments in the period is 26 or 66%. There’s also more clubs that benefited from PP that never got promoted back than ones that did. PP or P&S rules aren’t really a clear marker for not getting promotion. 2020 Leeds Don Revie/history to get Bielsa West Brom 2 seasons in Championship Fulham 1 season in Championship 2019 Norwich 2 seasons in Championship Sheffield United luck to get Wilder Villa 3 seasons in Championship 2018 Wolves gambled outrageously Cardiff dinosaur/Colin whom we rejected Fulham 4 seasons in Championship 2017 Newcastle 1 season in Championship Brighton fair do's Huddersfield luck to get us with Carlos, minus Hooper 2016 Burnley 1 season in Championship 'Boro 7 seasons in Championship, dinosaur/Karanka Hull 1 season in Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, Athelwulf said: 2020 Leeds Don Revie/history to get Bielsa West Brom 2 seasons in Championship Fulham 1 season in Championship 2019 Norwich 2 seasons in Championship Sheffield United luck to get Wilder Villa 3 seasons in Championship 2018 Wolves gambled outrageously Cardiff dinosaur/Colin whom we rejected Fulham 4 seasons in Championship 2017 Newcastle 1 season in Championship Brighton fair do's Huddersfield luck to get us with Carlos, minus Hooper 2016 Burnley 1 season in Championship 'Boro 7 seasons in Championship, dinosaur/Karanka Hull 1 season in Championship Read Don Revie to get Bielsa and stopped reading, sorry. Your using phrases like, luck, gambled and fair do's to counteract facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Mcguigan said: Read Don Revie to get Bielsa and stopped reading, sorry. Your using phrases like, luck, gambled and fair do's to counteract facts. Those are the facts, and you can research them for yourself. What I meant is that because of the Revie years, Leeds have the profile to land a manager of Bielsa's stature. We don't. United were extremely fortunate to get Wilder; you could take a dozen managers from the lower leagues and not get one like him, and the investment the Blades got in the Championship was more akin to a team which is fighting the drop. It was Roy of the Rovers/Leicester stuff. But even if you exclude Leeds and the Blades, out of the 15 promoted teams, 8 of them had been in the PL within the previous 4 years, with some of them bouncing straight back. Wolves, Cardiff and 'Boro had also had relatively recent PL histories, with Wolves making our gambling look timid by comparison. The only club in that list similar to ourselves is Brighton, in that they had been out of the top flight for many years. I'll give you that one, which is why I wrote fair do's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff74 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Rules are the same for everyone else in the league. DC either doesn't understand them and/or doesn't feel he should be bound by them. He's a spoilt rich kid, who isn't particularly bright. It was always going to end badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mcguigan Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Athelwulf said: Those are the facts, and you can research them for yourself. What I meant is that because of the Revie years, Leeds have the profile to land a manager of Bielsa's stature. We don't. United were extremely fortunate to get Wilder; you could take a dozen managers from the lower leagues and not get one like him, and the investment the Blades got in the Championship was more akin to a team which is fighting the drop. It was Roy of the Rovers/Leicester stuff. But even if you exclude Leeds and the Blades, out of the 15 promoted teams, 8 of them had been in the PL within the previous 4 years, with some of them bouncing straight back. Wolves, Cardiff and 'Boro had also had relatively recent PL histories, with Wolves making our gambling look timid by comparison. The only club in that list similar to ourselves is Brighton, in that they had been out of the top flight for many years. I'll give you that one, which is why I wrote fair do's. They’re not facts mate, they’re your opinions. You’re dismissing the facts by arguing that clubs were lucky, gambled or excluding teams. ExampleYou’ll have to explain to me how Wolves gambling made ours look timid by comparison. Did Wolves sign aging, injury prone players on ridiculous wages. Players with little or no resale value? No, they had some very valuable assets within their squad, assets that could be sold to ease the P&S burden had they not been promoted. Did Wolves loan sign PL players again on ridiculous wages to mostly not even make the bench but the squad? No, got on loan international quality players to almost guarantee promotion. Again though, players that the following season would return their clubs to ease the P&S burden. Wolves’ approach to gaining to promotion made ours look pathetically amateur, whilst they went about it with a professionalism and determination, chased one rabbit in a field and got it.There was never a gamble, it was well thought out approach and played P&S restrictions perfectly. We chased 20 and come away with nothing. Our gamble backfired massively and we didn’t have the planning or foresight to be able to rectify afterwards. You can fabricate as many excuses for clubs getting promoted before us but, truth be told, it’s not their fault. It’s ours. Those are facts, I’ve researched them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hornsby Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 11 hours ago, Athelwulf said: Those are the facts, and you can research them for yourself. What I meant is that because of the Revie years, Leeds have the profile to land a manager of Bielsa's stature. We don't. United were extremely fortunate to get Wilder; you could take a dozen managers from the lower leagues and not get one like him, and the investment the Blades got in the Championship was more akin to a team which is fighting the drop. It was Roy of the Rovers/Leicester stuff. But even if you exclude Leeds and the Blades, out of the 15 promoted teams, 8 of them had been in the PL within the previous 4 years, with some of them bouncing straight back. Wolves, Cardiff and 'Boro had also had relatively recent PL histories, with Wolves making our gambling look timid by comparison. The only club in that list similar to ourselves is Brighton, in that they had been out of the top flight for many years. I'll give you that one, which is why I wrote fair do's. Success generally takes a bit more than your superficial suggestions. Both Blades and Leeds going up was built on infrastructure investment, moving to top traning facilities , for example. This then resulted in lucrative player sales - Woods , Brookes et al - to fund steady progress and later attract right managers. Chansiri had 5 years to move from mediocre Middlwood and done nowt. Even his taxis don't run on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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