Carlos Carvalhal

[SallyCinnamon]

Carlos lives in all our heads rent free. He left almost 4 years ago and we have a thread about him every other week.

 

[DSandersonOWL]

4 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Carlos lives in all our heads rent free. He left almost 4 years ago and we have a thread about him every other week.

 

Some want him back!

Others saw that he was a confidence trickster that should have been booted out much earlier!

[toppOwl]

Carlos did ok, should have done better with the biggest budget an Owls manager ever had but he can NEVER be forgiven the 2-4 game and the Hudders play off fiasco.

[Tollertonowl]

On 21/01/2021 at 00:37, Owlsend said:

Good team lots of money very opposite of Sheffield Wednesday Now ...

 

 

can he manage without money?

Probably not

In the equivalent of the Scottish Premier League so not comparable...

[Tollertonowl]

On 21/01/2021 at 01:00, Blue and white said:

Pointless thread.

When Carlos left it was long overdue.

The problem at our club goes further than the managers with the exception of Dross.

Carlos, Bruce, Monk and Pulis have all alluded to the way the club is ran and the interference from above.

We could have Klopp running the club and his hands would be tied.

This club will not move forward until Chansiri et al have departed.

Don't forget that now the EFL Fair Play Rules/ Bosman Ruling/ PL Parachute Payments/ Diff Rules to PL is also completely decimating Championship clubs from gaining promotion like us, Middlesbrough, Derby etc.... And these stupid rules are also causing further financial loses to clubs due to players being released on free transfers due to transfer embargoes e.g. If we can't replace players then the current squads contracts were run out and they left for free... 

[Tollertonowl]

On 21/01/2021 at 00:39, mogbad said:

Should have gone 6 months before he did.

He should have never been given the job before SG had a chance of running his team with key signings... CC was only a good manage when he didn't manage the team and once he started to it went downhill from there....

[myHero]

13 hours ago, daveyboy66 said:

Full of kids 

You're right, but you've rattled my cage on this one. There were actually two world cup winners play for Arsenal that night. I remember watching Jurgen Klinsmann at Hillsborough play for Spurs. (Might have even been his debut) Back in those days that was something exceptional.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivier_Giroud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Mertesacker#International_career 

 

Klinsmann was a cut above Giroud btw.

 

 

 

 

And they had Mark Chamberlain's son playing in midfield, and he didn't turn out to be a bad player for England.

 

Here's the full match replay above. 

 

 

[DJMortimer]

15 hours ago, Big Rons Hairspray said:

Some kids....

 

One lad with a CL winners medal & 4 Prem titles.

 

Another 2 World Cup winners.

 

Two other lads with over 30 England caps each.

 

Arsenal put a good side out that night.

 

Beating them 3-0 was an achievement.

 

Their starting line-up of outfield players combined for 97 league starts that season. It was a reserve team, which including some youngsters and a couple of experienced old heads.

 

As for the England internationals you referred to, Oxlade-Chamberlain lasted a whole 5 minutes before he was replaced by Walcott. Less than 15 minutes later, he had to be substituted as well.

 

Still a great performance and result, but let's not misrepresent who we were up against.

 

 

[Tracksuit]

51 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Their starting line-up of outfield players combined for 97 league starts that season. It was a reserve team, which including some youngsters and a couple of experienced old heads.

 

As for the England internationals you referred to, Oxlade-Chamberlain lasted a whole 5 minutes before he was replaced by Walcott. Less than 15 minutes later, he had to be substituted as well.

 

Still a great performance and result, but let's not misrepresent who we were up against.

 

 

I don’t think I’m misrepresenting it.

 

The comment was that we beat a team of kids.

 

We didn’t, we beat a team of established footballers.

 

Not their first 11 but a strong side on the whole.

 

The line up was:

 

Petr Cech- Serial winner

Debuchy- French international 

Chambers- England international 

Mertersacker- German international 

Gibbs- England international 

Flamini- French international 

Kamara- Kid. Fair one.

Campbell- Costa Rica international 

Oxlade Chamberlain- England International 

Iwobi- Nigeria International 

Giroud- French international 

 

Subs who played:

Walcott- England international 

Bennacer- Currently at AC Milan

Bielek- Kid.

 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

19 hours ago, Marro said:

The season we finished 4th was some of the most dire uninspiring dull as dish water football witnessed at Hillsborough

You’re re-writing history to suit your own ends. We finished fourth, won 24 games, and scored 60 goals. Can you honestly say that anything that has followed under Dros, Monk and (briefly) Pulis was better than Carlos’s worst ? CC partly suffers from comparisons against the style of the 15/16 season. I 100% agree about the Huddersfield game though. 

[83owl]

1 hour ago, Big Rons Hairspray said:

I don’t think I’m misrepresenting it.

 

The comment was that we beat a team of kids.

 

We didn’t, we beat a team of established footballers.

 

Not their first 11 but a strong side on the whole.

 

The line up was:

 

Petr Cech- Serial winner

Debuchy- French international 

Chambers- England international 

Mertersacker- German international 

Gibbs- England international 

Flamini- French international 

Kamara- Kid. Fair one.

Campbell- Costa Rica international 

Oxlade Chamberlain- England International 

Iwobi- Nigeria International 

Giroud- French international 

 

Subs who played:

Walcott- England international 

Bennacer- Currently at AC Milan

Bielek- Kid.

 

Every top half PL team has a squad of international players, in fact we even have some international players. It was a few first teamers and a bunch of reserves in the early rounds of the league cup. MK dons don't even talk about beating Man Utd 4-0 as often as we bring up the Arsenal game it's embarassing.

[Marro]

57 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

You’re re-writing history to suit your own ends. We finished fourth, won 24 games, and scored 60 goals. Can you honestly say that anything that has followed under Dros, Monk and (briefly) Pulis was better than Carlos’s worst ? CC partly suffers from comparisons against the style of the 15/16 season. I 100% agree about the Huddersfield game though. 

I agree that performances on the field have continued to go down hill following Carlos’ departure but that doesn’t mean that Carlos was and is now the answer.  When you look at what Charlton, Wilkinson, Atkinson and to some extent Francis achieved at S6 Carlos wasn’t that great.  I just don’t get the love in many fans have with the fella.  To me Carlos is the Portuguese version of an English double glazing salesman.

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

6 minutes ago, Marro said:

I agree that performances on the field have continued to go down hill following Carlos’ departure but that doesn’t mean that Carlos was and is now the answer.  When you look at what Charlton, Wilkinson, Atkinson and to some extent Francis achieved at S6 Carlos wasn’t that great.  I just don’t get the love in many fans have with the fella.  To me Carlos is the Portuguese version of an English double glazing salesman.

I don’t say Carlos was and is the answer. He’s yesterday’s news. It was fun while it lasted. Nor did I suggest he was more successful than those you mention. I was replying to the point that his football was dire. His worst was far better than what followed. 
 

By reaching the Championship play-offs, CC was our most successful manager since relegation from the Premier League in 2000. Whether you love him or not, whether you think he wasted a golden opportunity or not, to compare him to a double glazing salesman is ridiculous and disrespectful. 
 

 

[DJMortimer]

It should not be forgotten that Carvalhal was  the beneficiary of arguably the biggest 18 month spending spree in the club's entire history. What he delivered was hardly a great deal more than might have been expected for that outlay. When the funding was reigned in and we were more reliant on his skills as a manager, it started to slide downhill quite quickly. Referencing the results under the likes of Sturrock, Laws, Jones, Gray, Luhukay and Monk as if the situations are comparable is rather disingenuous.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 83owl said:

Every top half PL team has a squad of international players, in fact we even have some international players. It was a few first teamers and a bunch of reserves in the early rounds of the league cup. MK dons don't even talk about beating Man Utd 4-0 as often as we bring up the Arsenal game it's embarassing.

 

How do you know what MK Dons fans talk about? 

 

Not sure we mention this game that often do we? 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

It should not be forgotten that Carvalhal was  the beneficiary of arguably the biggest 18 month spending spree in the club's entire history. What he delivered was hardly a great deal more than might have been expected for that outlay. When the funding was reigned in and we were more reliant on his skills as a manager, it started to slide downhill quite quickly. Referencing the results under the likes of Sturrock, Laws, Jones, Gray, Luhukay and Monk as if the situations are comparable is rather disingenuous.

 

The comparison between what Carlos had to work with and what Gray or Monk had is not a great one, that's true. However, Luhukay took over from Carlos at a time when we were 15th in the division, 8 points off the play-offs. We ended the season in 15th place, 18 points off the play-offs, so the manager brought in to improve on what Carlos did with the same squad that season failed to improve us.

 

You say that Carlos didn't deliver much more than could have been expected, yet in his first season in England, with little expectation, he got us to the play-off final. In the second season, he improved on results up until the play-off debacle which he has to take a big share of the responsibility for. At no stage in either of those seasons did we have a top 6 budget and when it was clear where the team needed to strengthen in season two, our transfer advisors signed us Abdi in the summer and two striker in the January transfer window, do you seriously think he prioritised the signing of both Winnall and Rhodes at that stage? The same problems in terms of transfer existed then as they do now, it was just a more costly scale. The time at which our transfers were effective in this regime were when Roeder and the committee were involved, since then we have had to work from outside advice.

 

 

[DJMortimer]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

...Luhukay took over from Carlos at a time when we were 15th in the division, 8 points off the play-offs. We ended the season in 15th place, 18 points off the play-offs, so the manager brought in to improve on what Carlos did with the same squad that season failed to improve us.

 

Luhukay inherited a quite ridiculous injury situation that went on for months. I think around the time of the Swansea cup games, 9 of the arguable first 11 were unavailable and 17 of the squad in total. Some of the more established players such as Loovens, Pudil and Wallace were in decline. Lee and Hooper were not quite the same when they returned. Despite this, we recovered towards the end of the season and went on a decent run. In his relatively short stay with us, we paid only one modest transfer fee to try and redress the balance. It can't be argued he was a success overall, but his situation was FAR different from his predecessor's. 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Luhukay inherited a quite ridiculous injury situation that went on for months. I think around the time of the Swansea cup games, 9 of the arguable first 11 were unavailable and 17 of the squad in total. Some of the more established players such as Loovens, Pudil and Wallace were in decline. Lee and Hooper were not quite the same when they returned. Despite this, we recovered towards the end of the season and went on a decent run. In his relatively short stay with us, we paid only one modest transfer fee to try and redress the balance. It can't be argued he was a success overall, but his situation was FAR different from his predecessor's. 

 

 

So the same problems Carlos had when he was sacked then? 

[DJMortimer]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

So the same problems Carlos had when he was sacked then? 

 

It was only really beginning at that point. Only three games before he left it looks like the only major absentees were Forestieri, Fletcher, Hutchinson and Lees.

[Guest]

Just now, DJMortimer said:

 

It was only really beginning at that point. Only three games before he left it looks like the only major absentees were Forestieri, Fletcher, Hutchinson and Lees.

 

Ant that's when the bad run of results started, anyone can go 3 or 4 games without a win in the Championship.

 

For me Carlos did a good job. He isn't the messiah and he isn't the devil as opposite sides of the scale on here would like to argue. He got us to the top 6 when the budget was good but not better than around 10 other teams at the time. He had a great opportunity in the play-offs and his approach to the Huddersfield games cost us, his time was then up as he coveted a PL job, which he walked into immediately after leaving us.

 

Would he have got us promoted had he stayed? No chance because it has been downhill ever since in terms of team building - as I said he benefited from the initial good work of the initial transfer committee. Would Monk, Luhukay, Pulis or even Gray had done better than him if they were in charge 2015-2017? I seriously doubt it. He is currently proving he is a decent manager as well, maybe he has learned from his experiences. 

A lot of our issues stem from our transfer approach in my opinion but that doesn't mean I think Jos, Monk or Pulis did the best they could with what they had to work with, far from it.