BREAKING - Club Statement

[darra]

3 hours ago, alan48 said:

With this and George Hirst I just worry that if we keep stoking fires we'll get burned. 

Perhaps a little humility might be in order. The football world seems reluctant to even acknowledge the piggies so they won't give a fig about us.

But maybe that's the problem. In the past, the EFL has said to clubs you done something wrong now bend over and take your punishment and the clubs have said ok how far. This time we've said sod you we'll see you in court.

[Sonny]

5 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Well market value is the going rate for clubs in the Championship chasing the premier league dream. Which would be somewhere between £30-50m

 

The debt if it was £100m isn’t market value, it’s totally separate. It would be settled in the agreement when the club changes hands 

 

Of course he could keep the ground.. but the buyer in that case is agreeing to it, which would probably mean they aren’t flush with cash and aren’t the right buyer in the first place. Let’s hope if he did sell, someone more suitable than that would come in.

 

All about risk.. risks aren’t high where we are now

 

So you’ve gone from no chance of him keeping the ground to of course he could keep the ground. 

 

Not only are we now agreeing, you’re literally telling me what I was telling you.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Sonny

[Guest LondonOwl313]

Just now, Sonny said:

 

So you’ve gone from no chance of him keeping the ground to or course he could keep the ground. 

 

Not only are we now agreeing, you’re literally telling me what I was telling you.

I’ve not changed my point which is the odds are low.. I’m not uncomfortable with it. With these things it’s difficult to eliminate all risk whatsoever because there’s an element that’s dependent upon Chansiris actions which we can’t do anything about. Can only say what a financially rational person would do

[Sonny]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I’ve not changed my point which is the odds are low.. I’m not uncomfortable with it. With these things it’s difficult to eliminate all risk whatsoever because there’s an element that’s dependent upon Chansiris actions which we can’t do anything about. Can only say what a financially rational person would do

 

You’ve literally changed your opinion 180 degrees. It’s all there, and now it all depends on him being a financially literate person having just said he’d have to write off 70 million quid to get any sale whatsoever. All over the place here.

[prowl]

17 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

One paragraph you say he’d have to write off debt the next you say he wouldn’t accept below market value.

 

Fact is it’s possible he’d sell the club and keep the ground. We now agree on that so not much else to discuss really.

If that was to happen (which I think is unlikely) the new owner would want a lease on the ground for an extended period with an agreed rent. Having access to a ground is the important thing here. You could get the situation where a new owner wants to build a new stadium but they would ensure they had a ground to play at until the new one was built.

 

All things are possible in business but business men aren't generally daft. If they are their legal advisors will flag up the problems.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, Sonny said:

 

You’ve literally changed your opinion 180 degrees. It’s all there, and now it all depends on him being a financially literate person having just said he’d have to write off 70 million quid to get any sale whatsoever. All over the place here.

I’ve not written anything that’s at odds with previous points.. covering base case outcomes and saying odds are minimal of other outcomes for obvious reasons. He would need to write off debt, not write down the market value of the company to get a sale. Two entirely separate things 

[Sonny]

4 minutes ago, prowl said:

If that was to happen (which I think is unlikely) the new owner would want a lease on the ground for an extended period with an agreed rent. Having access to a ground is the important thing here. You could get the situation where a new owner wants to build a new stadium but they would ensure they had a ground to play at until the new one was built.

 

All things are possible in business but business men aren't generally daft. If they are their legal advisors will flag up the problems.

 

Agree completely. It could happen and the new owner would agree a lease (with very little in the way of bargaining power).

[Costello 77]

1 hour ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Roland, sorry but it’s you who isn’t understanding this.. the amount the club owes in debt to its 100% equity owner is irrelevant. Say it’s £100m.. that’s far more than the club is worth. Nobody is going to come in and buy the club under the proviso that debt is repaid. So the reality is Chansiri would have to write the debt off to facilitate the sale. This is why he’s faced with a choice that’s either carry on and hope for the windfall, or sell the club for what it’s worth (c.£40m) to someone else and write off his losses. So you’re fundamentally incorrect to say that should he cease to be owner we would owe him the money. That’s just not how it works

 

its the same with the stadium sale. As you said, fine while he’s here. It would be an issue if he still owned it having sold the club. But that’s not a realistic prospect... because it would be a term demanded by any buyer that he include the stadium in the sale of the club. Nobody would buy the club without Hillsborough. 
 

His options for extracting money from the club are 1. Carry on funding it and hope for the windfall (where we are currently). 2. Sell the club as a going concern for £40m for a willing buyer, writing off the debts and giving back ownership of the stadium in the process. 3. Liquidate the assets. How much do you think the ground and training ground would fetch in a pretty average area of north Sheffield and right next to a river bank that’s flooded before? I don’t know the answer but it’s significantly less than it’s worth for it’s current purpose. The ground derives most of its value from the football club so wouldn’t be worth much without it

 

So can already see that 3 is an inferior proposition to 2, so it’s not going to happen. So we’re back to either we carry on and hopefully goes up or he walks away and someone else comes in with a clean slate.

 

Theres really no reason to be alarmed at all. If he starts borrowing money from third parties that’s when I’ll be concerned 

Can't understand why Keegan got pi*sed off with you..

[Sonny]

1 hour ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Nobody would buy the club without Hillsborough. 

24 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Of course he could keep the ground.. but the buyer in that case is agreeing to it

 

6 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I’ve not written anything that’s at odds with previous points.

 

Probably best we leave it there, as I said. 

[prowl]

24 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

Don’t we still owe Allen et al some money upon promotion?

I've no idea.

 

It's more likely to be a clause in the sale contract than an actual debt for money loaned to the club.. In business it's often called an' earn out' clause. The terminoligy varies but if you take over another company you might not be sure how it will do so you agree a fee for the purchase then a clause is agreed with the seller whereby if the company makes more than say 10% profit you will pay an extra fee.

 

I would expect promotion clauses are quite common in football club sales.

[Guest Ferkorf]

Just put the Xbox pad down to have a look what was going on in this thread.

Got to admit that its got me that confused our lass put me on my arsse after I hit her with a lucky punch so now I'm going off with the bigger boys to learn how to be a bruiser

[Guest LondonOwl313]

3 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

 

Probably best we leave it there, as I said. 

Dude you keep coming up with a long list of what ifs which then makes me have to answer. Then quoting out of context. Nobody rational in good faith would buy the club with no ground. I stand by that. There are other scenarios, like the one prowl said about it being temporary while a new one is built, or in the case that Chansiri decided to sell out on the cheap to a bad actor, which would be completely irrational given he wouldn’t have a problem selling at the going rate. 

 

I prefer to focus on the overwhelmingly likely outcomes and deal with the what ifs if they ever come to fruition

[prowl]

9 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

Agree completely. It could happen and the new owner would agree a lease (with very little in the way of bargaining power).

The new owner would have all the bargaining power. He could walk away unless he is happy with the deal.

 

DC would have a football ground that no other football club would want.

 

[Sonny]

Just now, LondonOwl313 said:

Dude you keep coming up with a long list of what ifs which then makes me have to answer. Then quoting out of context. Nobody rational in good faith would buy the club with no ground. I stand by that. There are other scenarios, like the one prowl said about it being temporary while a new one is built, or in the case that Chansiri decided to sell out on the cheap to a bad actor, which would be completely irrational given he wouldn’t have a problem selling at the going rate. 

 

I prefer to focus on the overwhelmingly likely outcomes and deal with the what ifs if they ever come to fruition

 

I haven’t come up with any list whatsoever never mind a long list of what ifs. That’s what you’ve done.

 

Bizarre

 

You said it couldn’t happen, then you said it could, now you’re saying nobody rational would do it despite it having happened many times.

 

It takes some skill to both admit and deny you were wrong.

 

Kudos

[Sonny]

1 minute ago, prowl said:

The new owner would have all the bargaining power. He could walk away unless he is happy with the deal.

 

DC would have a football ground that no other football club would want.

 

 

Well yeah, but that kind of bargaining power wouldn’t get us a new owner - if that’s what we’re saying we’d need in this hypothetical situation. We need a ground to play at and building a new one is a costly and lengthy endeavour. 

[prowl]

Just now, Sonny said:

 

Well yeah, but that kind of bargaining power wouldn’t get us a new owner - if that’s what we’re saying we’d need in this hypothetical situation. We need a ground to play at and building a new one is a costly and lengthy endeavour. 

 Having a sale isn't about agreeing something with anyone who shows up, it's about doing a deal that works for both parties. DC would want the best price. He might want to get all his money back but after a while it would be obvious he isn't going to get it. Eventually he would have to come down until people showed interest. Ideally he wants people competing to buy to push the price up. As the price rises people drop out. When there's one person left that's the best price DC is going to get. Then thay haggle over the details.

 

The buyer wants the club, the seller wants to sell so they haggle until either they agree a deal or the buyer walks. If he walks the whole process starts again.

 

Think of it like you buying a car or selling one for that matter, you might want the car but if it hasn't got any wheels you'd need to negotiate does he supply new wheels or do you reduce the price and you supply new wheels. What about that dent in the side do you barter him down or does he get it fixed.

 

Selling a football club or a business is similar only a lot more complicated.

[Sonny]

1 minute ago, prowl said:

 Having a sale isn't about agreeing something with anyone who shows up, it's about doing a deal that works for both parties. DC would want the best price. He might want to get all his money back but after a while it would be obvious he isn't going to get it. Eventually he would have to come down until people showed interest. Ideally he wants people competing to buy to push the price up. As the price rises people drop out. When there's one person left that's the best price DC is going to get. Then thay haggle over the details.

 

The buyer wants the club, the seller wants to sell so they haggle until either they agree a deal or the buyer walks. If he walks the whole process starts again.

 

Think of it like you buying a car or selling one for that matter, you might want the car but if it hasn't got any wheels you'd need to negotiate does he supply new wheels or do you reduce the price and you supply new wheels. What about that dent in the side do you barter him down or does he get it fixed.

 

Selling a football club or a business is similar only a lot more complicated.

 

I can think of it like buying a club, if you can.

 

Total sense in what you’re saying but your scenario all hinges on multiple potential buyers. Other possible scenarios leave us more desperate with less bargaining power.

 

It’s great that so many posters seem to have high hopes and good faith about how people will act. Many examples of it all both panning and not panning out that way.

[Costello 77]

I've thought up a new phrase...dribblewits.

[Maddogbob]

1 hour ago, ka58 said:

who are the plastic idiots? 

the majority of the epl. 

[sherlyegg]

2 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

the new owners have done a cracking job, not just on the pitch.  Previous owners not so