BREAKING - Club Statement

[Blue and white]

9 hours ago, 2roland2 said:

I think people and our fans think someone will buy us purely on our name and history, Milan was our only saviour with 25 mill of debt and buying us for a pound or whatever it was. That was when the club had scope to grow commercial revenue a decent squad and a solid fan base. 
 

any suitors looking at our club to either buy from our owner or take it up if the worst happens would see a club with little or no commercial revenue ( so they would literally have to start from scratch ney build from behind scratch because all the previous sponsors and most box holders have walked off, getti g them back will not be easy, trust me I’m in that game. 
they would also look at the fact we are and have sold forward season ticket sales. 
so with the club in debt, not much hope of big changes short or semi medium terms of significant return on commercial revenue and having to deal with much less money because of forward sold tickets. 
who in their right mind would want us?  Oh and then if he doesn’t give it us back we also have to rent the stadium back or buy it back too. 
It would take some flipping  fruitcake to take us I’m telling you now. Even if I had a billion pounds as a die hard fan I wouldn’t fancy running that. 
 

You know what our gamble might pay off , we might go up, if we can delay or get away with this charge. But if not and I’m not sure many of you see how dangerous  it is, we are royally fizzed. 
 

because with all of the above said , if I was chanisiri would I keep pumping money inbetween it 10 milll or 30 mill per season ? Would I fizz, I would try and find a buyer, which I doubt he would get ( see above) and if not I would claim the stadium against my loans sell of what the fizz I could get and get out of dodge. 
 

do you think rich people families get rich by having feelings? When push comes to shove every time people will pick their situation over anything else. 

Or you have a franchise such as Red Bull who have a proven model which brings success both on the field and off it. 

[bigthinrob]

10 hours ago, ka58 said:

the point I’m making is the club is now completely unsustainable without c £15m a year to keep us where we are.

 

and an owner who would probably want some money for the club - including the stadium he owns.

 

do you think we’re the same proposition we were when DC bought in? 
 

no chance.

 

 

 

 

Morning chaps.

 

Isn’t that the case with most clubs though?

 

Granted, we went on a spending spree & got lumbered with players we couldn’t move on which would have helped the balance sheet, but that isn’t going to happen every year.

 

United, were running at a loss (apparently) & I reckon most clubs are the same.

 

The other thing, we were starting totally from scratch. No academy, no commercial infrastructure, everything was non existent from day one when DC took over. 
 

Again, this won’t be the case from now on. 
 

Obviously, most clubs (with genuine ambition) seem willing to accept losses knowing these will be small change if their Prem ambitions are realised.

 

It seems obvious to me that DC is working on this game plan.

 

[bigthinrob]

14 hours ago, 2roland2 said:

Have you not seen a pattern emerging from our owner yet? It seems using common sense and sensible business plans and exit plans are not the norm, what is the norm is fighting g everyone and everything in and outside the club. 
 

as for being business partners I’m afraid I will skip that because anyone who thinks what we are doing is sustainable and will end in anything but tears isn’t fit to be in business. 
 

if you want reasoning as to why I think that go and read the sensible posts I have made in numerous other topics about why he could do that and why the removal of the only tangible assets we have could be so important if things go belly up. 

Do you not think that in football as in life, mistakes made early on, shape the thinking of decisions taken further down the line.

 

You assume that DC who clearly was on a massive learning curve will repeat the mistakes he made early on. 
 

This is highly unlikely and borne out by more recent events and acquisitions. Ie Iorfa, Borner, Harris etc plus the improvement in back room staff.

 

To assume nothing will change & he will blindly make the same mistakes again isn’t happening.

 

 

[briggowl]

On 27/12/2019 at 10:13, @owlstalk said:

 

So if 'no step will be taken in the disciplinary case, until the arbitration is resolved' are we just stalling? 

 

How long can we keep this stalling going? Is this the ultimate gamble to get accepted into the premier league before the EFL get a chance to screw us over? 

[Anlaby Owl]

17 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

Morning chaps.

 

Isn’t that the case with most clubs though?

 

Granted, we went on a spending spree & got lumbered with players we couldn’t move on which would have helped the balance sheet, but that isn’t going to happen every year.

 

United, were running at a loss (apparently) & I reckon most clubs are the same.

 

The other thing, we were starting totally from scratch. No academy, no commercial infrastructure, everything was non existent from day one when DC took over. 
 

Again, this won’t be the case from now on. 
 

Obviously, most clubs (with genuine ambition) seem willing to accept losses knowing these will be small change if their Prem ambitions are realised.

 

It seems obvious to me that DC is working on this game plan.

 

Im afraid this is just not what a large percentage of our fanbase want to hear rob.  For some reason a lot of them seem to want someone to lash out at.  They want to believe we have an owner who is getting ready to strip all our assets, to rip the club apart, to cripple the club with outside debt then to eat their offspring on toast; even when all the evidence points to the contrary. 

 

Question... 

If the clubs owner wanted to do these things, why would he still be putting money in?

[S36 OWL]

3 minutes ago, briggowl said:

 

So if 'no step will be taken in the disciplinary case, until the arbitration is resolved' are we just stalling? 

 

How long can we keep this stalling going? Is this the ultimate gamble to get accepted into the premier league before the EFL get a chance to screw us over? 

 

I'd say that's exactly the plan. 

[Dick_Turpin]

17 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

Do you not think that in football as in life, mistakes made early on, shape the thinking of decisions taken further down the line.

 

You assume that DC who clearly was on a massive learning curve will repeat the mistakes he made early on. 
 

This is highly unlikely and borne out by more recent events and acquisitions. Ie Iorfa, Borner, Harris etc plus the improvement in back room staff.

 

To assume nothing will change & he will blindly make the same mistakes again isn’t happening.

 

 

He hasn’t cut the ticket prices. The team’s doing well but we struggle to scrape 23k and Hillsborough is moribund. POTG figures are crap I assume - he’s choked it off with stupid prices. 

 

Maybe he doesn’t want to. Maybe he’s trapped in a never ending loop because of forward selling.  But until he remedies this I’ll harrumph and harrumph. 

 

 

[S72 Owl]

Can’t help thinking that going after the EFL publicly isn’t going to end well and the punishment could end up been bigger than we think. 

 

But on the other hand surely Chansiri must be confident of the right outcome to be going to all this trouble. 

[bigthinrob]

1 minute ago, Anlaby Owl said:

Im afraid this is just not what a large percentage of our fanbase want to hear rob.  For some reason a lot of them seem to want someone to lash out at.  They want to believe we have an owner who is getting ready to strip all our assets, to rip the club apart, to cripple the club with outside debt then to eat their offspring on toast; even when all the evidence points to the contrary. 

 

Question... 

If the clubs owner wanted to do these things, why would he still be putting money in?

I was around from the very early days Megson Snr, Swan etc and the fans were always up in arms that we had no ambition and were a selling club.

 

This was actually correct and we watched while  Man Utd, LFC (who were never previously a power house prior to this) grew in stature while we ( who were competitive around 1961, 2nd only to Spurs) fell into mediocrity because of a lack of ambition.

 

We had a brief fling in the early 90s but in real terms played at it (relatively), & then completely bottled it with poor managers etc. We were financed in the old ‘commitee’ way with limited actual genuine resources.

 

We now have an owner who seems very genuine in his intent, has put his money where his mouth is but made numerous bad calls along the way whilst learning ‘on the job’.

 

I would assume he has learnt from his mistakes as seen by some of the recent activity.

 

The reaction of a large proportion of the fan base ( or maybe just the ones on here)???

 

To withdraw into our shell & go back to being the selling, no ambition club we have been in recent times.

 

Brentford for God’s sake, fuc**n Brentford were even touted as the example to follow which about sums up some people’s ambition.

 

Meanwhile, clubs who ‘went for it’ Leicester, Wolves, etc, who showed ambition & stuck two fingers up to the authorities are now reaping the rewards. 
 

 

[alan48]

With this and George Hirst I just worry that if we keep stoking fires we'll get burned . 

Perhaps a little humility might be in order . The football world seems reluctant to even acknowledge the piggies so they wont give a fig about us .

[prowl]

10 hours ago, 2roland2 said:

I think people and our fans think someone will buy us purely on our name and history, Milan was our only saviour with 25 mill of debt and buying us for a pound or whatever it was. That was when the club had scope to grow commercial revenue a decent squad and a solid fan base. 
 

any suitors looking at our club to either buy from our owner or take it up if the worst happens would see a club with little or no commercial revenue ( so they would literally have to start from scratch ney build from behind scratch because all the previous sponsors and most box holders have walked off, getti g them back will not be easy, trust me I’m in that game. 
they would also look at the fact we are and have sold forward season ticket sales. 
so with the club in debt, not much hope of big changes short or semi medium terms of significant return on commercial revenue and having to deal with much less money because of forward sold tickets. 
who in their right mind would want us?  Oh and then if he doesn’t give it us back we also have to rent the stadium back or buy it back too. 
It would take some flipping  fruitcake to take us I’m telling you now. Even if I had a billion pounds as a die hard fan I wouldn’t fancy running that. 
 

You know what our gamble might pay off , we might go up, if we can delay or get away with this charge. But if not and I’m not sure many of you see how dangerous  it is, we are royally fizzed. 
 

because with all of the above said , if I was chanisiri would I keep pumping money inbetween it 10 milll or 30 mill per season ? Would I fizz, I would try and find a buyer, which I doubt he would get ( see above) and if not I would claim the stadium against my loans sell of what the fizz I could get and get out of dodge. 
 

do you think rich people families get rich by having feelings? When push comes to shove every time people will pick their situation over anything else. 

No but they do have egos.

 

That's why they buy football clubs. It's never a rational decision. That's why expecting DC to act in a way you or I would is in itself irrational.

[marcx666]

4 minutes ago, alan48 said:

With this and George Hirst I just worry that if we keep stoking fires we'll get burned . 

Perhaps a little humility might be in order . The football world seems reluctant to even acknowledge the piggies so they wont give a fig about us .

The media will though, and if the media get behind the EFL clubs against the inept governing body then, it puts pressure on the EFL.

[Costello 77]

8 minutes ago, alan48 said:

With this and George Hirst I just worry that if we keep stoking fires we'll get burned . 

Perhaps a little humility might be in order . The football world seems reluctant to even acknowledge the piggies so they wont give a fig about us .

We've had a manager and a young starlet snatched away using questionable business tactics.. it's no time to be humble..

[Morepork]

21 minutes ago, alan48 said:

With this and George Hirst I just worry that if we keep stoking fires we'll get burned . 

Perhaps a little humility might be in order . The football world seems reluctant to even acknowledge the piggies so they wont give a fig about us .

 

 

 

DC's made plenty of questionable decisions. However, choosing to fight these battles in lieu of just rolling over, is 100% the right thing to do IMO.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Morepork

[Ever the pessimist]

18 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

The media will though, and if the media get behind the EFL clubs against the inept governing body then, it puts pressure on the EFL.

The media won’t give a t0ss about us. Only way that would work would be if a collective of big(ish) clubs all sought to challenge the EFL.

 

As it happens I fully expect this to end in tears. 

[Morepork]

Just now, Ever the pessimist said:

As it happens I fully expect this to end in tears. 

 

So in character!!! 

[We'llNeverBeMastered]

17 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

 

see this is the thing for me and I had mentioned this a few times, I get why your happy with the gamble and I think if you look deep enough you know it’s nothing but that because you want to see us get to the prem etc. For me I would like that but it isn’t the be all and end all. 
I want our club here and steady in decades times for my kids to watch and their kids. You keep scoffing at Brentford, not sure why, they aren’t spunking money and are constantly around the play offs, they have a great scouting system and are moving forward commercially including a new ground which obv isn’t being built for fan space but for commercial reasons. 
 

if I wanted us to hunt for glory and just worry about playing in the Orem and winning trophies for absolute certainty I wouldn’t be supporting Sheff wed, I mean when I was a kid it was leeds, Liverpool Everton Man Utd , I chose Wednesday because it’s my local club, I saw us in league 1 with ola flipping  tidman  etc, I saw us win the league cup, would I prefer the latter? Ofc I would but the highs and lows are part of supporting our club, and if it means selling our soul and putting us in any significant danger  then I would rather not.

 

btw even if we make the prem now the likely hood of us ever winning a thing or doing very well are very very slim anyway. I just want our club run sensibly and I will follow us whatever division we are in even concord division 9. It seems some of our fans aren’t happy unless we are glory wrapped.  fizz that 

That's an awfully weak mentality. 

 

I don't think a single Wednesday fan started supporting Wednesday for 'glory' but my god do I want to see this club the best it can be, mixing it with the big boys.

 

We shouldn't want to 'just survive'.

[Anlaby Owl]

4 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

 

see this is the thing for me and I had mentioned this a few times, I get why your happy with the gamble and I think if you look deep enough you know it’s nothing but that because you want to see us get to the prem etc. For me I would like that but it isn’t the be all and end all. 
I want our club here and steady in decades times for my kids to watch and their kids. You keep scoffing at Brentford, not sure why, they aren’t spunking money and are constantly around the play offs, they have a great scouting system and are moving forward commercially including a new ground which obv isn’t being built for fan space but for commercial reasons. 
 

if I wanted us to hunt for glory and just worry about playing in the Orem and winning trophies for absolute certainty I wouldn’t be supporting Sheff wed, I mean when I was a kid it was leeds, Liverpool Everton Man Utd , I chose Wednesday because it’s my local club, I saw us in league 1 I saw us win the league cup, the highs and lows are part of supporting our club, and if it means selling our soul to get better then I would rather not.

 

btw even if we make the prem now the likely hood of us ever winning a thing or doing very well are very very slim anyway. I just want our club run sensibly and I will follow us whatever division we are in even concord division 9. It seems some of our fans aren’t happy unless we are glory wrapped.  fizz that 

I think the two of you and Rob obviousely have completely contrasting perceptions of our club and therin lays the problem. 

I myself, like rob see us as a former 'powerhouse', one of the countries top ten teams (in terms of size and formerly performance).  For a considerable period of my life ive been in the position of looking down on the likes of West ham, Leicester, Chelsea and Man City.  From my perspective, as that potential was there, it still surely must be... 

i think your perception of our club is of a consistant low to mid table second tier club.  Obviously your perception is more realistic at the current time but it really doesn't have to be that way... 

 

 

[Animis]

Arbitration is a perfectly acceptable way forward, and indeed is part of the EFL governance process.

 

I think we've caught the EFL out in that we've started the process early on; before their decision on the misconduct charges are announced.

 

I like the fact we're challenging their initial decision; primarily because the EFL seem to have gone along with DC's plan from July to the Autumn. The key to all this is the additional documents - what are they; what do the say and when did the EFL receive them. They have to be very incriminating for these charges to stick IMO, and if they are beyond any doubt, we'd have to accept the penalties.

 

Until then, we have to use all mechanisms available to us to ensure fair process is applied.

[Maddogbob]

8 minutes ago, We'llNeverBeMastered said:

That's an awfully weak mentality. 

 

I don't think a single Wednesday fan started supporting Wednesday for 'glory' but my god do I want to see this club the best it can be, mixing it with the big boys.

 

We shouldn't want to 'just survive'.

Survive, is the only mentality most clubs have in the epl. Which makes it the pointless competition it is. 

 

This approach is money orientated. As a competion (I use that term loosely) outside the biggest 5 teams your just fodder. 

 

Other than money, zero appeal for me.