Scottish Football Returns.

[pachyderm]

7 minutes ago, pachyderm said:

 

 

I like the 3 leagues with 14 teams each option...

 

But I do believe that would make promotion even more difficult... sounds crazy when I type it out loud but there it is...  i.e. the same teams would keep going back and forth/up and down while the other "same teams" wouldn't ever get a whiff of going up...

Grammatical error. 

dammit. Timed edit on here sucks. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by pachyderm

[edinburghowl]

On 21/05/2020 at 21:58, John O'Brien said:

Tbh there are far far too many teams in the Scottish lower divisions, we could certainly lose a league and there are a few that could merge.

The way things are looking we are looking at 10+ teams going out of business. You won’t need to worry about “too many teams”.

 

On 21/05/2020 at 20:15, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Was any of this discussed and proposed pre corona virus?

 

Would you have wanted this if Hearts hadnt found themselves bottom?

 

Noble fighting for other teams but it screams self interest

 

Looks like promotion and relegation has been kept in other leagues that had their seasons ended

Of course there’s an element of self interest. There have been discussions for many years on reconstruction but given these circumstances and the fact that clubs have been unable to finish the season on sporting merit and for the reasons below it has to happen. 
 

We’re talking about the potential survival of teams, and clubs are being expelled from leagues when it hadn’t even finished which is an outrage. The clubs that have voted this through are the ones that are acting in self interest when there are perfectly reasonable alternatives.

 

I’ve forked out thousands to the foundation of Hearts once already to help save my club. 8000+ other Hearts fans have done and still do the same on top of ST money etc. I still continue to pay them monthly and the club is at threat again due to this vote and a sham process. We are being forcibly removed to the Championship, they are taking about that league potentially not starting playing until 2021 which means no income coming in, and some clubs are saying they may not be able to play at all.
 

So we are being removed to a league that can might not even play?
 

Why are a handful of clubs facing the costs and financial pain of a global pandemic?

 

There’s no way this will stand up in court. We will be filing for damages for A) our expulsion and B) a restraint of trade order if the league cannot start until 2021. It’s up to the clubs and SPFL to decide if that’s the route they want to take because if we sue it will undoubtedly put some clubs out of existence because our compensation will come out of the money due to all SPFL clubs. Reconstruction is the only way out of this.
 

As a side point. The Scottish authorities have been happy to end the league seasons but they are happy for the cup semi finals to potentially be played in 2021 putting Hearts again at another significant disadvantage. If the cups were ended in the same format as the league then Hearts would be Champions with the best goal difference throughout the Scottish cup competition. Why aren’t they doing that?
 

Dunfermline released 17 players yesterday, QOTS have confirmed they are in big trouble and yet they were a club that directly benefited from Patrick’s expulsion. Several clubs are not going to survive this.

Edited May 23, 2020 by edinburghowl

[pachyderm]

Going out of business...? 

 

Surely they'd be able to play in some type of "Sunday pro/am" league? 

[Belfast Owl 2]

6 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

The way things are looking we are looking at 10+ teams going out of business. You won’t need to worry about “too many teams”.

 

Of course there’s an element of self interest. There have been discussions for many years on reconstruction but given these circumstances and the fact that clubs have been unable to finish the season on sporting merit and for the reasons below it has to happen. 
 

We’re talking about the potential survival of teams, and clubs are being expelled from leagues when it hadn’t even finished which is an outrage. The clubs that have voted this through are the ones that are acting in self interest when there are perfectly reasonable alternatives.

 

I’ve forked out thousands to the foundation of Hearts once already to help save my club. 8000+ other Hearts fans have done and still do the same on top of ST money etc. I still continue to pay them monthly and the club is at threat again due to this vote and a sham process. We are being forcibly removed to the Championship, they are taking about that league potentially not starting playing until 2021 which means no income coming in, and some clubs are saying they may not be able to play at all.
 

So we are being removed to a league that can might not even play?
 

Why are a handful of clubs facing the costs and financial pain of a global pandemic?

 

There’s no way this will stand up in court. We will be filing for damages for A) our expulsion and B) a restraint of trade order if the league cannot start until 2021. It’s up to the clubs and SPFL to decide if that’s the route they want to take because if we sue it will undoubtedly put some clubs out of existence because our compensation will come out of the money due to all SPFL clubs. Reconstruction is the only way out of this.
 

As a side point. The Scottish authorities have been happy to end the league seasons but they are happy for the cup semi finals to potentially be played in 2021 putting Hearts again at another significant disadvantage. If the cups were ended in the same format as the league then Hearts would be Champions with the best goal difference throughout the Scottish cup competition. Why aren’t they doing that?
 

Dunfermline released 17 players yesterday, QOTS have confirmed they are in big trouble and yet they were a club that directly benefited from Patrick’s expulsion. Several clubs are not going to survive this.

 

You were relegated  and there was no expulsion.

 

You were in relegation because of your own shortcomings

 

And as for the idea for the cupsz well come on thats a nonsense.

 

Accept it and move on

 

 

[John O'Brien]

4 hours ago, pachyderm said:

Going out of business...? 

 

Surely they'd be able to play in some type of "Sunday pro/am" league? 

It maybe hard to see these clubs going out of business because they are battle hard on survival and finances and outgoings are very low. 

[edinburghowl]

1 hour ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

You were relegated  and there was no expulsion.

 

You were in relegation because of your own shortcomings

 

And as for the idea for the cupsz well come on thats a nonsense.

 

Accept it and move on

 

 

 

Expel - to force to leave (a place, an organisation, etc) by official action.

 

If we had finished bottom of the league at the end of the season with all fixtures played we would have been relegated. I would have accepted that. We have been expelled by vote so stop talking flipping poo .

[Groundhopping Owl]

What a phenomenal shambles this whole affair has been, the SPFL have once again been exposed as not fit for purpose.

 

The only positive I can take is that the last footy match I went to before lockdown (which now feels about a million years ago) was Hearts knocking Rangers out of the Cup, that was a cracking way to end the season 

[John O'Brien]

6 minutes ago, TINKERBELL said:

Taking cup to players house. So plastic 

 

Hate that club 

That’s nice. It’s because we can.

 

[Belfast Owl 2]

7 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

Expel - to force to leave (a place, an organisation, etc) by official action.

 

If we had finished bottom of the league at the end of the season with all fixtures played we would have been relegated. I would have accepted that. We have been expelled by vote so stop talking flipping poo .

 

The actions of a "big club"

 

[belfast owl lad]

12 hours ago, TINKERBELL said:

Taking cup to players house. So plastic 

 

Hate that club 

I'm surprised you've got a green bra

[0wl18]

Well that’s it, the Women’s Super League and, Championship cancelled with immediate effect. League standings stay as they are, champions crowned, delegations confirmed etc etc.

 

Oh wait, the FA aren’t incompetent morons like their Scottish counterparts and, recognise that there’s plenty of time to decide how the standings etc will be decided.

[John O'Brien]

On 24/05/2020 at 00:46, TINKERBELL said:

Taking cup to players house. So plastic 

 

Hate that club 

Ooops I forgot to say that the lad that dropped off the trophy was a Ragers fan just to rub it in. (Ragers was the correct word)

[edinburghowl]

Great initiative below from Hearts and a real shame because reconstruction still looks like it will be torpedoed. At least we can now say we have done everything to try to find a resolution before we go to court.
 

It is clear that others have not. And we will win in the courts 100%. Championship clubs look set to reject the proposal and yet some of them say that they cannot afford to compete and start next season without crowds. This means that we are being expelled to a league that cannot even take place! Absolutely ludicrous.
 

And equally ridiculous that these chairmen can vote on something like this and then try to prevent the league from starting due to their own club’s finances.
 

The SPFL need to sort out who can play, who can’t, and if they can’t play it’s tough poo but they forfeit their position in the league. To be honest this is even more reason why reconstruction should go ahead. Move all the diddies to a wee league where they can mothball their clubs and wait, and then the rest can get on with it. The Championship could end up being a 3/4 team league with Hearts, Inverness, Dundee. Absolute joke
 

——————————
 

Hearts have offered to fund COVID-19 testing for other Scottish clubs should their reconstruction proposal be accepted, with their mystery benefactors committing their support for a further five years.

The individuals have ploughed £9m into the club over the past three years and are set to continue offering financial support.

And with that set to continue until 2025, Ann Budgehas suggested that the Jambos could contribute to the costs of testing for coronavirus at clubs across Scotland in a bid to help get football back underway.

However, that would appear to hinge on the proposal, which was circulated last yesterday and will be discussed by the SPFL Board this afternoon, gaining enough support to become a reality.

Edited May 27, 2020 by edinburghowl

[John O'Brien]

26 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

Great initiative below from Hearts and a real shame because reconstruction still looks like it will be torpedoed. At least we can now say we have done everything to try to find a resolution before we go to court.
 

It is clear that others have not. And we will win in the courts 100%. Championship clubs look set to reject the proposal and yet some of them say that they cannot afford to compete and start next season without crowds. This means that we are being expelled to a league that cannot even take place! Absolutely ludicrous.
 

And equally ridiculous that these chairmen can vote on something like this and then try to prevent the league from starting due to their own club’s finances.
 

The SPFL need to sort out who can play, who can’t, and if they can’t play it’s tough poo but they forfeit their position in the league. To be honest this is even more reason why reconstruction should go ahead. Move all the diddies to a wee league where they can mothball their clubs and wait, and then the rest can get on with it. The Championship could end up being a 3/4 team league with Hearts, Inverness, Dundee. Absolute joke
 

——————————
 

Hearts have offered to fund COVID-19 testing for other Scottish clubs should their reconstruction proposal be accepted, with their mystery benefactors committing their support for a further five years.

The individuals have ploughed £9m into the club over the past three years and are set to continue offering financial support.

And with that set to continue until 2025, Ann Budgehas suggested that the Jambos could contribute to the costs of testing for coronavirus at clubs across Scotland in a bid to help get football back underway.

However, that would appear to hinge on the proposal, which was circulated last yesterday and will be discussed by the SPFL Board this afternoon, gaining enough support to become a reality.

We should find out who’s against it and ask them why.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

Great initiative below from Hearts and a real shame because reconstruction still looks like it will be torpedoed. At least we can now say we have done everything to try to find a resolution before we go to court.
 

It is clear that others have not. And we will win in the courts 100%. Championship clubs look set to reject the proposal and yet some of them say that they cannot afford to compete and start next season without crowds. This means that we are being expelled to a league that cannot even take place! Absolutely ludicrous.
 

And equally ridiculous that these chairmen can vote on something like this and then try to prevent the league from starting due to their own club’s finances.
 

The SPFL need to sort out who can play, who can’t, and if they can’t play it’s tough poo but they forfeit their position in the league. To be honest this is even more reason why reconstruction should go ahead. Move all the diddies to a wee league where they can mothball their clubs and wait, and then the rest can get on with it. The Championship could end up being a 3/4 team league with Hearts, Inverness, Dundee. Absolute joke
 

——————————
 

Hearts have offered to fund COVID-19 testing for other Scottish clubs should their reconstruction proposal be accepted, with their mystery benefactors committing their support for a further five years.

The individuals have ploughed £9m into the club over the past three years and are set to continue offering financial support.

And with that set to continue until 2025, Ann Budgehas suggested that the Jambos could contribute to the costs of testing for coronavirus at clubs across Scotland in a bid to help get football back underway.

However, that would appear to hinge on the proposal, which was circulated last yesterday and will be discussed by the SPFL Board this afternoon, gaining enough support to become a reality.

 

It would be a great initiative if it had been a no strings attached gesture but to be honest it looks like emotional blackmail if it hinges on whether or not an agreement is reached on the restructure proposal put forward by Hearts as the article suggests.

[SiJ]

[Guest Grez Bez]

The whole structure needs sorting for me, Scotland isn't big enough for the amount of teams it has and the whole juniors set up I'd bizarre.

 

Top flight of 16. Play each other twice. Below that split to regional leagues (Highland/lowland or east West). Include the juniors in there.

[edinburghowl]

Hearts are now officially a Championship club after reconstruction has been rejected by most clubs.
 

Hearts have immediately announced they are beginning legal proceedings. 

[SiJ]

What a kerfuffle. 

 

Do Hearts really think they'll get reinstated or are they just seeking financial recompense? 

[edinburghowl]

2 hours ago, SiJ said:

What a kerfuffle. 

 

Do Hearts really think they'll get reinstated or are they just seeking financial recompense? 

It’s purely compensation now I reckon. Theoretically we could request an interdict to prevent the season from starting but I doubt the club will do that. We are where we are now. We have a much better claim for compensation and it is the safest route for the club to go down. Prevent the league from starting and you’re opening up a whole other can of worms and we could be liable for counter claims for restriction of trade. Going down the compo route we will win our case.
 

Quite a few legal folk are thinking we will win £6m compensation or thereabouts. That won’t quite cover the entirety of our losses but with benefactor money, and the Foundation of Hearts money that the fans raise that should tide us over. Our very same benefactor has agreed to give every club in Scottish football £50k no strings attached (all 42 of them) to help them out with covid testing equipment and running costs. Not sure why he’s giving that cash to the likes of Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and Aberdeen but for the wee clubs in the bottom two divisions even that small of a donation will be a lifeline. Hearts will be fine as long as we get promoted next season and we should do that.

 

Given the absolute shiteshow of the management of this whole situation, the corrupt vote, the ridiculous corporate governance, the fact that no other top flight league in Europe has expelled and demoted one of their clubs, the fact that we are being demoted to a league that cannot even start for months so we have a restriction of trade, and the French and Belgian courts have ruled this same act illegal, the SPFL know they will lose this in the courts. That’s why the board members were desperately asking the clubs to vote for and back reconstruction.

 

The really bad thing about this situation and with us having to go to court now it will undoubtedly end in some clubs going out of business. The compensation won’t come from the SPFL, they’ve got no money, it will come from the 42 clubs, their TV and prize money. They have effectively voted to fizz themselves over. Can’t say I'm massively bothered about some and especially given the way some have fizzed us over but it’s a shame for some of the decent clubs.
 

I really worry for Partick Thistle too who could go pop because of this after their expulsion from the Championship to League 1. They probably won’t be playing any football til 2021 and it’s doubtful if they can survive that long without cash. It’s an absolute mess