Got me thinking......

[Bluesteel]

29 minutes ago, bobowl said:

Losing to the blunts was Carlos's downfall. 

 

Losing to them in that manner and brushing it off was the killer blow.

[the monk]

Always makes me smile when I read about the " total football " played in CC s first season

 

We finished sixth!  We got lucky in the semis and didn't even turn up for the final

 

As the much discussed Rowett said at the time, he always felt Wednesday achieved results because of outstanding individual play rather than CCs tactics.

 

And that for me was bang on 

[Bluesteel]

14 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I'd say it was the other way round. That first leg was about as fearful and defensive as any game I can remember us being involved in. Huddersfield should have moved their keeper into midfield as we didn't even pretend we'd be trying to test him.

 

That was a glorious opportunity squandered because we should have had more than enough for Reading in the final. It would have been tempting to dismiss the manager for that alone, but when the following season started just the same but with poorer results, he did well to survive until Christmas.

 

His approach to the playoffs was abysmal that season. He didn’t know how to make that team attack without Hooper linking things.

 

However, it’s happened to plenty of decent managers and his approach of containing, keeping the ball and choosing when the go for it seemed logical as long as you actually go for it. My main gripe with him was his blinkered approach to recruitment and how he largely signed players who were clones of what we had and largely ignored how physically weak/short we were as a side. Reach and Fletcher being the odd exception.

[unkastav]

42 minutes ago, Dronfield Blue said:

 

A lot of truth in there, but I cannot forgive Carlos for the shambles of a display against Udders in the semis of the play offs. Shocking tactics. We should have blown them away at Hillsborough after gaining a draw away.

 

Whoever won that match was going up. Reading were a poor side that over achieved that year, hence Udders promoted.

 

Carlos should have been sacked then.

100% Said it on way home, said it after hearing his post match interview. Said it when I woke up day after. Needed a freshen up, him and us

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, Walt said:

You should know, he gave you the reason often enough -"Compact." He hated us playing with width form the wide midfielders as he thought it left us exposed so he had his left and right mids playing narrow, that and the opposition had us sussed. They knew our width in the first season was provided by our fullbacks playing high up the pitch which turned us into a back 3 with Hutch naturally dropping deep into (almost) a centre back position. The likes of Bannan, Lee, Wallace and FF would then play between the lines and pop up all over the shop it was a flipping pleasure to watch at times.. All that changed second season when teams put plans into place to stop our fullbacks (who were key to the system) and turned it into a weakness by exploiting the space left behind them. For my money Warnock was the first to suss it in late in CC's first season when his Rotherham side did a proper job on us at Hillsborough.

We’d have taken it, had we bored our way past Huddersfield and Reading. As I said, I hated it, I’ve never been a win at all costs type of guy. The squad though, has been capable, when fully fit, of achieving play off form, whatever the style chosen

[pazowl55]

If it hadn't been for major injuries to Lee and Hooper Carlos would have got us up for sure. 

Pretty much said himself the team fell apart and didn't have a clue without them.

 

His fish and potato analogy wasnt it.

[Westfield Owl]

3 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

All those things are true, but without those key players you mention, we still produced play off form after Christmas

 

That second half of the season form was borne out of conceding just 22 goals in 23 league games (2nd best in the league).

 

Yes, get the defence right and we’ve got a chance of competing at the right end of the table.  But how much of that was down to the form of Hector?

 

Borner has some big shoes to fill IMO.  The Odubajo signing gives some strength in depth at FB.  Still a big question mark over who starts at LB this year.

 

Our attack over that same post-Luhukay period wasn’t that great; we scored 31 goals in 23 league games (joint 12th/13th in the league).

 

Is the signing of Harris alone going to suddenly increase our goals output?

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, the monk said:

Always makes me smile when I read about the " total football " played in CC s first season

 

We finished sixth!  We got lucky in the semis and didn't even turn up for the final

 

As the much discussed Rowett said at the time, he always felt Wednesday achieved results because of outstanding individual play rather than CCs tactics.

 

And that for me was bang on 

There was a bit of that, but over a season, we deserved to be where we were

[Bluesteel]

1 minute ago, the monk said:

Always makes me smile when I read about the " total football " played in CC s first season

 

We finished sixth!  We got lucky in the semis and didn't even turn up for the final

 

As the much discussed Rowett said at the time, he always felt Wednesday achieved results because of outstanding individual play rather than CCs tactics.

 

And that for me was bang on 

 

I agree that it’s looked back on as the pinnacle of our achievements but at the time there were so many areas we needed to improve and the feeling was it was just the start. Reach and Fletcher helped but how long has it taken to sign a tricky winger and a proper centre half, we still haven’t got the Cm we’ve needed for 5 years.

[tarn owl]

53 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Since DC took over, four years ago, we’ve reached the play offs in years 1 and 2, and were it not for a horrendous injury crisis in the middle, we may well have done so again last season To my mind, Carlos did well to reach the play offs in year 2, but with a bit more courage, could have gone even further In season 2, we first started to see the injuries, so I think the Portuguese deserves some credit for making the top six, despite the injuries.  Jos then took control of a, still injury ravaged squad, and to be honest, struggled as Carlos did earlier in the year. He wasn’t right for the job, but I do have some sympathy for him, not only with the injuries, but I suspect, politics as well. 

Once Bullen first, and then Bruce, were able to call on pretty much a full squad, it was back to play off form. As a fan base, we are quick to pick up on the mistakes that have been made, and there have been mistakes, but the major issue has been the injury situation. Now we have a full squad available, and with a few additions, we can make the play offs again We don’t need to rip things apart and start again

Great post. I think we will look back more fondly with time on Carlos. Yes he wasn’t perfect but who is? 2 best seasons of my Wednesday fandom were under him. Plus Wembley was amazing due to him getting us there, we were just unlucky against Huddersfield, their goal was a fluke. What could have been. 

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

That second half of the season form was borne out of conceding just 22 goals in 23 league games (2nd best in the league).

 

Yes, get the defence right and we’ve got a chance of competing at the right end of the table.  But how much of that was down to the form of Hector?

 

Borner has some big shoes to fill IMO.  The Odubajo signing gives some strength in depth at FB.  Still a big question mark over who starts at LB this year.

 

Our attack over that same post-Luhukay period wasn’t that great; we scored 31 goals in 23 league games (joint 12th/13th in the league).

 

Is the signing of Harris alone going to suddenly increase our goals output?

Oh Hector was massive, it’s vital that we bring him back, even if we have to sacrifice a player to do it The rest we can do with loans

[Bluesteel]

1 minute ago, pazowl55 said:

If it hadn't been for major injuries to Lee and Hooper Carlos would have got us up for sure. 

Pretty much said himself the team fell apart and didn't have a clue without them.

 

His fish and potato analogy wasnt it.

 

It was a big factor but both those players struggled at Wembley. Then lee played both playoff semis vs Huddersfield and we were poor for a spell after that infamous derby defeat with those two available. That third season I think everyone stopped listening. But we did nearly get relegated without those key players 

[pazowl55]

2 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

Is the signing of Harris alone going to suddenly increase our goals output?

It may do as I believe we will be a bit more direct with him in the team and that will lead to more goals. 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

58 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Since DC took over, four years ago, we’ve reached the play offs in years 1 and 2, and were it not for a horrendous injury crisis in the middle, we may well have done so again last season To my mind, Carlos did well to reach the play offs in year 2, but with a bit more courage, could have gone even further In season 2, we first started to see the injuries, so I think the Portuguese deserves some credit for making the top six, despite the injuries.  Jos then took control of a, still injury ravaged squad, and to be honest, struggled as Carlos did earlier in the year. He wasn’t right for the job, but I do have some sympathy for him, not only with the injuries, but I suspect, politics as well. 

Once Bullen first, and then Bruce, were able to call on pretty much a full squad, it was back to play off form. As a fan base, we are quick to pick up on the mistakes that have been made, and there have been mistakes, but the major issue has been the injury situation. Now we have a full squad available, and with a few additions, we can make the play offs again We don’t need to rip things apart and start again

Penny dropped lol.. it’s impractical to start again so we go with what we have, and hopefully add a bit more quality on loan.

 

if you add up the points total excluding the injury and Jos period, it’s top 6 form for the whole of the last 4 years. I thought we’d be nailed on for top 6 under Bruce this year so hopefully the new guy can get us there

[the monk]

4 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

There was a bit of that, but over a season, we deserved to be where we were

Which was still in the same division 

[gurujuan]

Just now, LondonOwl313 said:

Penny dropped lol.. it’s impractical to start again so we go with what we have, and hopefully add a bit more quality on loan.

 

if you add up the points total excluding the injury and Jos period, it’s top 6 form for the whole of the last 4 years. I thought we’d be nailed on for top 6 under Bruce this year so hopefully the new guy can get us there

Bruce was a capable manager, but he didn’t really have to do much to get the team playing Losing him was a blow, but if the new manager follows the Bruce approach, and keeps a steady hand on the tiller, we can continue to progress

[pazowl55]

1 minute ago, Bluesteel said:

 

It was a big factor but both those players struggled at Wembley. Then lee played both playoff semis vs Huddersfield and we were poor for a spell after that infamous derby defeat with those two available. That third season I think everyone stopped listening. But we did nearly get relegated without those key players 

Hooper was the one.  had him for the Huddersfield matches with form Fletcher was in and the way Carlos always got the best out of Forestieri from the left. We would have been in the premier league.

[DJMortimer]

4 minutes ago, tarn owl said:

... we were just unlucky against Huddersfield, their goal was a fluke. What could have been. 

 

NO, NO, NO.

 

Unlucky my arse. It was like a champion boxer not throwing any punches and hoping to tire his opponent out and winning by default by back-pedalling and holding on for the entire fight.

[pazowl55]

Just now, DJMortimer said:

 

NO, NO, NO.

 

Unlucky my arse. It was like a champion boxer not throwing any punches and hoping to tire his opponent out and winning by default by back-pedalling and holding on for the entire fight.

This is the point i am making above. Carlos relied on a certain type of player (Hooper) to link all the play together when he proper done his shut up shop. close all the doors and windows, we are playing for 0-0 today tactics.  Without him we didn't have an answer.

[Walt]

32 minutes ago, bobowl said:

Losing to the blunts was Carlos's downfall. 

Wilder must have thought all his birthdays had come at once when he saw the line up and formation. They were 352 / 3411 (Brook's floating)

Carlos sticks Reach at left back and plays Bannan on the left of a diamond. What could possibly go wrong? The obvious - Bannan offers no cover whatsoever for Reach as he is wandering central and Utd have the freedom of the our left flank, their wingback is taking the wee wee high up the pitch and unchallenged until he meets Reach, he can then either take on Reach or pass to his mate Brook's who has joined in the fun  by pulling out wide (left or right) to make it 2 v 1...and then there's JVA as centre half.

The same is happening on our right flank where Hunt is left 1 v 2 with Utd's LWB and Brook's again providing the extra man.