Hughdowd Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 From what I’ve heard borukov...lonchar...Alex hunt...are all better prospects than hurst and Clare...obviously Hirst and Clare have had their heads turned by agents....so why waste anymore time and energy on them ???...if the don’t want to play for Wednesday....get them out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cognacbarnowl Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, RichieB said: I wonder how much the academy costs to run each year? I'd seriously consider foookin it off all together, we've never had any decent return on it that I can remember. Even when we do have a potential talent like Hirst, the prem clubs tap them up and turn their heads anyway, we end up losing them for next to nowt. Just bin the academy off and invest that money into the first team. Serious question. What other potential talent have we nurtured that has been tapped up ? Back in the days of the Reserves and Central League we brought quite a few decent players through. I'd love to see a return of the Central League or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, RichieB said: I wonder how much the academy costs to run each year? I'd seriously consider foookin it off all together, we've never had any decent return on it that I can remember. Even when we do have a potential talent like Hirst, the prem clubs tap them up and turn their heads anyway, we end up losing them for next to nowt. Just bin the academy off and invest that money into the first team. More clubs are considering the cost of an academy and the returns they get from it I predicted this when the EPPP came into being - the tariff system has really hurt clubs and its why some clubs have closed their academies and more are looking to follow suit The PL have to be careful because the smaller club academies are the recruiting grounds for the bigger clubs - and if more and more clubs just fold their systems then a huge swathe of recruitment and networking will be lost - it's much easier for scouts of Chelsea and Arsenal to go watch Northampton u12 v Peterborough u12 than it is for them to actively scout the grassroots leagues of those 2 areas The PL is largely destroying the fabric of football and it needs a rethink - quickly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hughdowd said: From what I’ve heard borukov...lonchar...Alex hunt...are all better prospects than hurst and Clare...obviously Hirst and Clare have had their heads turned by agents....so why waste anymore time and energy on them ???...if the don’t want to play for Wednesday....get them out.. I've seen a reasonable amount of both Hirst and Borukov - and tbf Hirst is considerably better imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughdowd Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 But he’s older and doesn’t want to accept a contract....other players would a contract that hirst turned down ....remember the cup match last year ?..against Chelsea’s youth ...hirst hardly touched it ...he’s not that good...pity but it’s true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Toni Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, SiJ said: I need not to. You're talking sheeite. No im not. What's the point of spending time and money on youngsters then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) Quote But he’s older and doesn’t want to accept a contract....other players would a contract that hirst turned down ....remember the cup match last year ?..against Chelsea’s youth ...hirst hardly touched it ...he’s not that good...pity but it’s true But other players haven't attracted the interest that Hirst has - which is probably why he can afford to be more choosy of the contract he signs The fact Clare has turned a contract down would suggest he's got something in the pipeline too The problem is for us - how far do we go to meeting their demands ? Often these things things are only seen through the prism of hindsight Edited April 15, 2018 by scram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 If he wants to leave, let him leave. Nobody is bigger than the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetland Owl Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Would let him leave, not going to be held to ransom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, scram said: But other players haven't attracted the interest that Hirst has - which is probably why he can afford to be more choosy of the contract he signs The fact Clare has turned a contract down would suggest he's got something in the pipeline too The problem is for us - how far do we go to meeting their demands ? Often these things things are only seen through the prism of hindsight Sean Clare is wanted by Gillingham after a successful loan spell with them earlier in the season http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/sport/sean-clare-sheffield-wednesday-gillingham-157941/ Sean Clare says he’s gutted that his loan deal with the Gills has ended. The midfielder is returning to parent club Sheffield Wednesday as his current deal ends this weekend. Clare has become a key player for the Gills, making 26 appearances, starting every league game under current boss Steve Lovell. Sean Clare chasing the ball for Gillingham Picture: Ady Kerry Lovell had made Clare a priority signing during the January transfer window and may still be looking to agree a deal for the exciting 21-year-old. For now though, Clare is heading back to Hillsborough. Clare tweeted: “I would like to say a huge thank-you to everyone at Gillingham for my fantastic time on loan at the club. “Thanks to the gaffer for believing in me and helping my development as a player and a person and thanks to the chairman for his support. “Playing so many games has meant I’ve learnt so much and I am gutted to be leaving. “Thank-you to the fans for making me feel so welcome.” Clare joined at the end of August and his energetic performances from midfield, along with a spell playing right back, impressed fans and management alike. “He has been brilliant for us,” said Lovell. “Whether at right-back or in midfield. He wants to get better and win football games and that goes with what we want here.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Toni Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, scram said: More clubs are considering the cost of an academy and the returns they get from it I predicted this when the EPPP came into being - the tariff system has really hurt clubs and its why some clubs have closed their academies and more are looking to follow suit The PL have to be careful because the smaller club academies are the recruiting grounds for the bigger clubs - and if more and more clubs just fold their systems then a huge swathe of recruitment and networking will be lost - it's much easier for scouts of Chelsea and Arsenal to go watch Northampton u12 v Peterborough u12 than it is for them to actively scout the grassroots leagues of those 2 areas The PL is largely destroying the fabric of football and it needs a rethink - quickly! Totally agree but I think that time is long past as money speaks. The whole reason the PL was introduced was because the big clubs wanted more revenue but they were always vetoed by the other FL clubs. It should have been capped like rugby was when it finally went professional but too many years have gone by now. It's ruined the game of football for me. I was given a ticket to the Burton game yesterday and it felt like a proper grass roots football club because their were no heirs and graces. It had the feel of what a football club used to be like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughdowd Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Thanks to gillingham...but Wednesday can wee wee off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieB Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, cognacbarnowl said: Serious question. What other potential talent have we nurtured that has been tapped up ? In my time following the club we rarely seem to have a potential talent that people rave about at all, so probably not much with us, but as soon as we do, I've no doubt the prem clubs tap them up and get in their heads. In fact our Chairman indicated just that with Hirst... "Coincidentally, the notification that George would not be signing for SWFC came just over an hour after we had turned down an offer from a Premier League club for the permanent transfer of George’s registration. Of course, this made us wonder if there were talks taking place with regards to George’s future which we were not party to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 hour ago, MuddyFunkster said: Same players they were injured when Carlos was still here but it didn't force Carlos's hand. Keep going. See these two posts from the 'A Tale of Two Managers' thread... On 4/14/2018 at 20:16, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: Today's victory against Hull throws up a relatively interesting statistical quirk: Carvalhal averaged 1.17 points per game during his 23 league matches in charge this season, which is exactly the same as Luhukay has averaged during his 17 league matches in charge so far. Of course, that only tells part of the story. The eleven players with the most league appearances under Carvalhal this season were: Reach (23 apps) Hooper (23) Bannan (21) Rhodes (20) Wallace (19) Fletcher (19) Westwood (18) Lees (18) Hunt (17) Jones (17) Lee (15) ...whereas the most frequently-used players (with a three-way tie for eleventh place) so far under Luhukay are: Wildsmith (17 apps) Reach (17) João (16) Nuhiu (16) Venâncio (15) Boyd (15) Pelupessy (14) Fox (13) Pudil (12) Palmer (11) Hunt / Lees / Thorniley (9 apps each) We're looking at very different sets of players which the two managers have been able to rely on, with only Reach, Lees and Hunt offering any kind of consistency between their two reigns. It will come as no surprise to any Wednesday fan, but it's quite remarkable how few of our 'big name' players have been available to Luhukay during his time here: whereas Carvalhal was able to call on Hooper in every single one of his league games, Luhukay hasn't been able to pick him once. In addition to this, the likes of Fletcher, Westwood and Lee, who were frequently playing under Carvalhal, haven't been available for selection once under Luhukay, whilst Wallace and Bannan have barely been able to feature during his tenure either. Instead, Luhukay has had to somehow fashion a team by coaxing previously-unseen performances from out-of-favour strikers such as Nuhiu and João; completing a defence with young and inexperienced players such as Wildsmith and Thorniley; and filling much of the rest of the team with players who were previously seen as backup options or squad players. That he's managed to achieve the same points average as our previous manager given the comparatively limited tools he's had to work with can only be seen as effective management, and hopefully bodes well for our future under Luhukay. Given a full pre-season to bed in his own signings, instil his own methods, and hopefully work with some of our better players, who knows where he could take us? On 4/14/2018 at 23:31, DJMortimer said: There is simply no comparison between the resources they have had available and it is utterly fraudulent to suggest otherwise. Here's a list of some of the major players in our squad and their appearances this season... Carvalhal Luhukay (29 games) (20 games) Westwood 18 0 Lees 20 8 van Aken 13 0 Hutchinson 5 2 Bannan 23 4 Lee 15 0 Wallace 21 4 Forestieri 3 4 Hooper 24 0 Fletcher 20 0 TOTALS 162 22 ...and then some of the Academy team who have been relied on out of necessity... Wildsmith 8 20 Dawson 0 4 Thorniley 0 8 Nielsen 0 3 O'Grady 0 1 Clare 0 5 Stobbs 0 3 TOTALS 8 44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Plus...how much do you offer to someone who is completely unproven at first-team level? As a Championship club do you break the wage structure to keep some kid with potential? Simple answer: No. I wish the club had handled the Hirst situation better and I'm not privy to the ins and outs of what has happened with Clare - but I'm not going to criticise the club for not stumping up silly terms to a bunch of kids. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I've no idea how good or bad young Hirst might be. But how would we have accommodated him in a group of strikers (Forestieri, Hooper, Fletcher, Rhodes, Winnall, Joao, Nuhiu) that was already overcrowded without him? Can you imagine how the senior pros would have reacted to being bypassed for an unproven kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reallondonowl Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 On 11/04/2018 at 16:19, 1963owl said: whatever the bloke that pays his wages says it is Best answer on here in a long while - close thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reallondonowl Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: I've no idea how good or bad young Hirst might be. But how would we have accommodated him in a group of strikers (Forestieri, Hooper, Fletcher, Rhodes, Winnall, Joao, Nuhiu) that was already overcrowded without him? Can you imagine how the senior pros would have reacted to being bypassed for an unproven kid? Yep thank god Ferguson didnt give Beckham his chance ahead of more established players at United, eh ? oh, hold on a minute....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Reallondonowl said: Yep thank god Ferguson didnt give Beckham his chance ahead of more established players at United, eh ? oh, hold on a minute....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Reallondonowl said: Yep thank god Ferguson didnt give Beckham his chance ahead of more established players at United, eh ? oh, hold on a minute....... Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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