Season ticket refund OFFICIAL OFFER

[asteener1867]

1 minute ago, sheffield_dave said:

Football wants to carry itself like a business and treat it's fans as customers. That's football in 2018 and Sheffield Wednesday is no exception. Far from an exception, actually. 

 

The idea of paying £500+ upfront for a product that so wildly varies in quality is kinda weird anyway, and it's a benefit of blind loyalty that football clubs continue to take for granted that simply isn't afforded to any other business sector. 

 

The idea of season ticket refunds is something I wholeheartedly support. The idea of football being run like a business to the extent that it is is something that regularly and routinely sees fans coming out with the raw end of the deal. I think it's important the football community and the business side of the game do more to meet in the middle where product value and satisfaction is concerned.

 

That said, I dont own a season ticket this year for unavoidable non-footballing reasons, and I also wouldnt be taking Mr Chansiri up on his offer even if I did. Loyalty, pride and self respect in your support of a club through good and bad remains important to fans and it remains important to me. Football club owners are lucky that between themselves and Sky, that emotional attachment and passion for the club hasn't been eroded just yet (despite what often feels like their best efforts). 

 

I think supporting the idea of refunds, and more flexibility for supporters in general, and actually taking the club up on the offer are two separate things. I absolutely defend and agree with the concept of a season ticket refund at the same time as acknowledging it as something I won't and likely never would do, personally. 

 

I also understand - without necessarily agreeing with it - why the clauses including prevention from buying future tickets has been brought in, given the circumstances. I think it's a real shame that what should be a victory for supporter choice and value has been broached under such a cloud. I think there's a more sensible discussion to be had about the value of our experience as supporters which has been conducted in the least sensible way possible on this occassion. 

You simply canot go down the road of "I pay X amount to watch my team" and you pay "Y amount to watch yours"

If..................("X" is > "Y")..My team finishes above yours....

Lets all sit at home and it on Paypal

When Mr Chansiri said "I know little of football"...I never knew he was exaggerating like f.ook

[S36 OWL]

57 minutes ago, sMacLean said:

Looks bad all round.

 

Anyone really fed up should have handed in their season ticket to show their unhappiness with this season.No refunds or future rules but makes their point to the chairman.

 

The future banning of memberships or season tickets is a bit aggressive but by allowing the refunds the club have forced themselves into having to do it.So as much as some fans started it the club are finishing it terribly.

 

The future banning of those sales doesn't look like a Chansiri style of doing things either but much more of a certain newly employed CEO.

 

 

 

Thats my feeling. Its got her MO all over it. She has history for having contempt for supporters customers .

[Guest S9_OWL]

The thing everyone seems to be missing here, is this ISN'T aimed at your average fan, its aimed at the select few who HAVE been giving abuse and asking for a refund. 

 

If you aren't one of those people how does it effect you in any way??? And if you are, do we really want 'supporters' like that? Just want to be there in the good times, and jump ship when thinhs arent going as well. All this, 'yeah but you don't know what their situation is they could have fell on hard times'. Well explain that to the chairman, I highly doubt you will be 'banned' from Hillsborough! 

 

This he's spiteful, stupid, ripping the family apart etc etc etc is as big of an overboard, hysterical reaction as I've ever seen.

[Dronfield Blue]

1 minute ago, S36 OWL said:

 

Thats my feeling. Its got her MO all over it. She has history for having contempt for supporters customers .

 

Maybe.

 

I love a good Owlstalk conspiracy theory. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

Football wants to carry itself like a business and treat it's fans as customers. That's football in 2018 and Sheffield Wednesday is no exception. Far from an exception, actually. 

 

The idea of paying £500+ upfront for a product that so wildly varies in quality is kinda weird anyway, and it's a benefit of blind loyalty that football clubs continue to take for granted that simply isn't afforded to any other business sector. 

 

The idea of season ticket refunds is something I wholeheartedly support. The idea of football being run like a business to the extent that it is is something that regularly and routinely sees fans coming out with the raw end of the deal. I think it's important the football community and the business side of the game do more to meet in the middle where product value and satisfaction is concerned.

 

That said, I dont own a season ticket this year for unavoidable non-footballing reasons, and I also wouldnt be taking Mr Chansiri up on his offer even if I did. Loyalty, pride and self respect in your support of a club through good and bad remains important to fans and it remains important to me. Football club owners are lucky that between themselves and Sky, that emotional attachment and passion for the club hasn't been eroded just yet (despite what often feels like their best efforts). 

 

I think supporting the idea of refunds, and more flexibility for supporters in general, and actually taking the club up on the offer are two separate things. I absolutely defend and agree with the concept of a season ticket refund at the same time as acknowledging it as something I won't and likely never would do, personally. 

 

I also understand - without necessarily agreeing with it - why the clauses including prevention from buying future tickets has been brought in, given the circumstances. I think it's a real shame that what should be a victory for supporter choice and value has been broached under such a cloud. I think there's a more sensible discussion to be had about the value of our experience as supporters which has been conducted in the least sensible way possible on this occassion. 

 

Why?

The majority of clubs overspend to try and gamble on success as it is. When a season doesn't go to plan - as is the case for more clubs than not most of the time - then it becoming customary to offer refunds on one of the biggest sources of income is only going to make the potential for more clubs to suffer financial ruin greater. How can they possibly account or budget for the possibility of potentially thousands of fans wanting hundreds of pounds back?

 

At what point during the season do you make this offer available on a regular basis? 

If a club was expecting a mid-table finish and they are in the top 6 come new-year should they then ask for a top up fee due to the better performance or is this just a benefit of buying a season ticket in the first place? This shouldn't be the case.

 

A small percentage of season ticket holders may purchase primarily due to expectations but the core of season ticket holders are there whether its top 6 or bottom 6 football year after year.  

[S36 OWL]

14 minutes ago, Dronfield Blue said:

 

Maybe.

 

I love a good Owlstalk conspiracy theory. 

 

Me too 

[sherlyegg]

58 minutes ago, KennyPowers55 said:

Possibly yes. I've calmed down a bit since, but at no stage prior to the initial offer had I demanded or expected a refund.

 

I took exception to the tone of his message and combined with the CEO appointment and general lack of connection to the club through the catalogue of poor decisions and spineless, inept performances , I seriously considered it.

 

Had the offer been unconditional and refunded straight to my card,  I'd probably have accepted it. Therefore the conditions he has applied have worked in mitigating the damage caused by a stupid offer. I expect the uptake of refunds to have been minimised now, but the damage done by the whole saga is massive 

 

It's not mitigating, it's blackmail.

And of course the refunds will have been minimised but the sour taste will last a long time.

You have escaped the naughty step by bowing to the conditions.

It makes no difference what the conditions were, in the grand scheme of things; he's made sure hardly anyone claims a refund.

Right or wrong,  some wanted their money back, but now they will not claim it.

Really very poorly handled, pisss poor in fact.

 

Should never have offered, he fooooked up, no big deal, people do it often...some too often.

 

[asteener1867]

4 minutes ago, sherlyegg said:

 

It's not mitigating, it's blackmail.

And of course the refunds will have been minimised but the sour taste will last a long time.

You have escaped the naughty step by bowing to the conditions.

It makes no difference what the conditions were, in the grand scheme of things; he's made sure hardly anyone claims a refund.

Right or wrong,  some wanted their money back, but now they will not claim it.

Really very poorly handled, pisss poor in fact.

 

Should never have offered, he fooooked up, no big deal, people do it often...some too often.

 

Really?..I think that will have p*ssed off more Owls fans than the initial seemingly fair option that was in place before..........

[Guest S9_OWL]

13 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

 

It effects every hardcore fan even more so further down the line, you keep pushing people away and making decisions to split fan base opinions and you slowly lose more and more fans.  Believe it or not we don't have a never ending production line of fans, the fans come from clubs enticing new fans in, floaters, people who's families have never been interested before but they now have kids,  current fans with young families. 

 

Keep getting things wrong and attendances drop, affinity over a longer period drops and it's harder then when people have no longer got that affinity to pull people back with simple price drops. 

 

Whats going on now now is going to have a lot more implications moving forward than you could imagine. 

The only fans that are been pushed away are the ones demanding a refund.

 

So tell me what are these long and short term implications, that are affecting myself and fans like me?

[S36 OWL]

6 minutes ago, S9_OWL said:

The only fans that are been pushed away are the ones demanding a refund.

 

So tell me what are these long and short term implications, that are affecting myself and fans like me?

 

Ah, the " Im all right Jack " view of things. 

[prowl]

2 hours ago, soldierboyblue said:

I agree however there was a lot of bleating about poor this poor that, so the Chairman listened thought about his options and came up with an offer. Gets my support 100% for this.

If the Chairman decided that as a show of good faith he would refund season ticket holders who wanted a refund, I think that would be fine. I don't think he should make the offer but if he thought it was necessary I'd accept his reasoning. Any fan should be able to make a decision based on the offer put forward by the Chairman with a clear conscience.

 

The terms attached to the offer show it wasn't a generous offer, effectively he is saying take the offer if you want but you will suffer for it, you will no longer be welcome as a season ticket holder FOR LIFE. That is spiteful and unfair. I suggested it may also be illegal, it is an extraordinary punishment, I could see a 3 year ban might be legal but what could be a ban for 50 years is nothing short of outrageous.

 

The original offer wasn't made in good faith, it has reduced Mr Chansiri in my estimation as a Chairman and a man of integrity.

[asteener1867]

Just now, prowl said:

If the Chairman decided that as a show of good faith he would refund season ticket holders who wanted a refund, I think that would be fine. I don't think he should make the offer but if he thought it was necessary I'd accept his reasoning. Any fan should be able to make a decision based on the offer put forward by the Chairman with a clear conscience.

 

The terms attached to the offer show it wasn't a generous offer, effectively he is saying take the offer if you want but you will suffer for it, you will no longer be welcome as a season ticket holder FOR LIFE. That is spiteful and unfair. I suggested it may also be illegal, it is an extraordinary punishment, I could see a 3 year ban might be legal but what could be a ban for 50 years is nothing short of outrageous.

 

The original offer wasn't made in good faith, it has reduced Mr Chansiri in my estimation as a Chairman and a man of integrity.

Good point mate....I dunno about the legalities, but its extremely bad publicity should owls fans take it into a wider arena......

[Guest S9_OWL]

8 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

 

I said this at the time when the original pricing was announced. I guarantee at some point when the price increase reaches the im alright jack fans ( everyone will have different tipping points). The tune will change very quickly. Sad state of affairs in society in general not just football 

What are you talking about, this isn't a debate about pricing?? This is about Chansiri offering refunds.

 

I'll have a read when i'm done shopping, but could you atleast explain how fans who can only afford the odd game are affected by this?

[southportdc]

1 hour ago, asteener1867 said:

Its not only spiteful...Its bloody half an inch offa stupid.....

So much for the "Wednesday family"....You fall out with yer son and you rip your shirt and shout "You are no son of mine"..Off he trots into the wilderness, bloody ludicrous way to run a business.

You can't ever buy another season ticket?..Just because you thought this season was a total f.ook up?

Remember who made the offer in the first place...No bugger asked for it.

Its a simple statement of.."This club is mine and theres nothing you can do about it"

Its Draconian, its as ill thought out as most of this season seems to have been

I never had any intention of asking for a refund...I watch Wednesday because I al;ways have done..as have generations of my family before me...Now Chansiri seems to want to take that right away from Sheffield Wednesday fans...taken away , not by anything the fans have done...but by bringing it about with an initial offer, and then adding the proviso

"You can no longer be a Wednesday fan"

Really Mr  Chansiri...?

You have no earthly idea of what constitutes a Wednesday fan.....You expect me to respect your culture with yer Lucky Elephants and unlucky stripes and grieving over the death of someone I never heard of?

Then YOU ride roughshod over our culture...?

Hardly fair that...Is it?

 

First of all, he's not aiming it at people who are X generations into watching the club through the thick and thin etc. He's aiming it at people who want to pay reduced prices for the first half a season then get their money back for the rest because we aren't playing well.

 

Secondly he's not saying you can't be a fan anymore. He's saying you can't benefit from the reduced prices you've taken advantage of previously and now want a refund for. You're welcome to come along and pay the prices you should have been paying to turn up for half a season. 

 

And thirdly, by getting mardy and saying stuff he later regrets, he's integrating into Owlstalk culture perfectly.

[Dick_Turpin]

To use a word from my youth - seems a bit snidey to me.

 

[asteener1867]

5 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

First of all, he's not aiming it at people who are X generations into watching the club through the thick and thin etc. He's aiming it at people who want to pay reduced prices for the first half a season then get their money back for the rest because we aren't playing well.

 

Secondly he's not saying you can't be a fan anymore. He's saying you can't benefit from the reduced prices you've taken advantage of previously and now want a refund for. You're welcome to come along and pay the prices you should have been paying to turn up for half a season. 

 

And thirdly, by getting mardy and saying stuff he later regrets, he's integrating into Owlstalk culture perfectly.

He OFFERED the money back!

No-one was fussed about asking for it............

[S36 OWL]

19 minutes ago, asteener1867 said:

Good point mate....I dunno about the legalities, but its extremely bad publicity should owls fans take it into a wider arena......

 

Spot on 

[Dick_Turpin]

1 hour ago, S9_OWL said:

its aimed at the select few who HAVE been giving abuse and asking for a refund. 

Talk me through how you know these people are one and the same. 

[Guest S9_OWL]

I haven't got time to read 30 pages, can you not just answer the question? 

 

And if you want to talk pricing, there is a line, but that line also works both ways.

 

For instance I'm sure if we charged £50 a season ticket, we would get more fans, but would lose £££ a week. If we increase prices we have more money to invest, but some fans would no longer be able to attend. Its a fine balancing act, and im sure if we increase prices futher people will have this debate again. But I don't see how that's relevant to offering a refund to the ones who wish to jump ship when the going gets tough.

[Guest S9_OWL]

1 minute ago, rickygoo said:

Talk me through how you know these people are one and the same. 

it don't take a rocket scientist does it.