Carlos's Managerial Record

[BD2OWL]

35 minutes ago, torryowl said:

you judge a manager on the job (good or bad) of what he's doing for your club .....if 4 or 5 others are doing better than him at other clubs then good luck to them ......

 

You might, I judge him on progress made.

 

This season we have made none, yet.

[optimisticowl]

A funny thing is football support, I well recall supporters stating that Trevor Francis rode on the back of Ron Atkinson's signings. They must have forgotten his 20 signings that included Chris (whoops) Woods, Paul Warhurst, Mark Bright, Chris Waddle, Des Walker, Chris Bart Williams, Nigel Jemson, Andy Sinton, Dan Pretescu and Guy Whittington, OK some of the others were pants, but that can be said of many managers.

 

Don't expect Carlos to change a team of clowns into one of champions overnight, our injury list is appalling, FF could pick up an injury on 'A Question of Sport', and we have three new major signings who need to settle in, Reach is never going to e a full back, hopefully Carlos has realised that. Even if we miss out on the play-offs I don't advocate yet another change of manager.

[matthefish2002]

9 hours ago, bluemagic said:

Heard a few times on Football Heaven - usually United fans but some Wednesday - saying he has a crap record, never won anything and got sacked from every job etc etc.

 

Thought I'd have a look at his stats.

Source: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/carlos-carvalhal/stationen/trainer/1588/plus/1

 

Sheff Wed: Played 96 W43 D26 L27

Besiktas: Played 47 W22 D9 L16

Sporting CP: Played 33 W16 D7 L10

Vitória Setúbal: Played 34 W14 D13 L7

Belenenses:: Played 42 W16 D7 L19

.

 

 

 

Not sure you can use stats to either say CC is a good or bad coach. Think context is the all important thing.

What players did he have, the strength of the leagues, why has he managed less then 50 games at all those clubs except us?

He is a good coach and has lasted longer then I predicted (Gone before the clocks change was what I said) but needs to pull his socks up for rest of the season.

[poite]

Ah reyt then. 

 

As long as his stats look good that's all that matters then. 

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

1 hour ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Not sure you can use stats to either say CC is a good or bad coach. Think context is the all important thing.

What players did he have, the strength of the leagues, why has he managed less then 50 games at all those clubs except us?

He is a good coach and has lasted longer then I predicted (Gone before the clocks change was what I said) but needs to pull his socks up for rest of the season.

 

Everybody I hear that wants Carlos out never wanted him in the first place. Think they just want to be proved reyt.

 

We're still in the top 6 so he's doing the job

 

[Mr Soul]

10 hours ago, bluemagic said:

People are doing the guy a dis-service when they diss his managerial record.

 

Edit: Short sighted, half baked morons are doing the guy a dis-service when they diss his managerial record.

[torryowl]

2 hours ago, BD2OWL said:

 

You might, I judge him on progress made.

 

This season we have made none, yet.

suppose it depends on how you define progress , if it's league position then yes we havnt progressed as things stand but if you think he's building a better squad of players to get to where he wants us to be then I think we have progressed ......I know everyone wants instant success but I'm of the believe that it takes 2 years to  build a good squad bit by bit but next season if he's still here then he as to deliver otherwise we are going to have to start again .

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

1 minute ago, Mr Soul said:

 

Edit: Short sighted, half baked morons are doing the guy a dis-service when they diss his managerial record.

It's a discussion forum so not everyone Will have the same point of view , get over it and stop with the name calling it's pathetic.

[Mr Soul]

1 minute ago, Andoverowl said:

It's a discussion forum so not everyone Will have the same point of view , get over it and stop with the name calling it's pathetic.

My apologies...I've been off owlstalk for a few days and come back to some ridiculous comments today...so a little wound up in 10 mins reading...

yes you are correct everyone is entitled to an opinion Andoverowl

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

2 minutes ago, Mr Soul said:

My apologies...I've been off owlstalk for a few days and come back to some ridiculous comments today...so a little wound up in 10 mins reading...

yes you are correct everyone is entitled to an opinion Andoverowl

No worries mate WAWAW

[matthefish2002]

15 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

Everybody I hear that wants Carlos out never wanted him in the first place. Think they just want to be proved reyt.

 

We're still in the top 6 so he's doing the job

 

 

Have to admit I questioned his appointment, I don't think I was alone in that. I wouldn't say getting rid of him an end of season makes him the wrong choice to begin with though. 2 seasons in modern football is a fair amount of time.

  

[Holmowl]

6 minutes ago, torryowl said:

suppose it depends on how you define progress , if it's league position then yes we havnt progressed as things stand but if you think he's building a better squad of players to get to where he wants us to be then I think we have progressed ......I know everyone wants instant success but I'm of the believe that it takes 2 years to  build a good squad bit by bit but next season if he's still here then he as to deliver otherwise we are going to have to start again .

 

He has built a much better squad, that is for sure. But of course that is predominately down to DC providing funds.

 

However, it is pretty clear he has struggled to get the best out of his buys. He hasn't got the best out of a very costly set of strikers, nor PL-experienced midfielders and wingers.

 

The results after 38 games are on a par with last year, but the performances are far lower. I have deep concerns that he absolutely at the peak of his level, and by sticking with him we are risking throwing away a golden opportunity to gain promotion against modest competition.

 

Certainly I would change him immediately, provided someone like Pearson or Pardew are up for us.

 

 

[FuthaMucker]

4 hours ago, Lostondisplay said:

 

Just curious, not having a dig, but what would've been good enough? 

Less needless defeats at home this season to the likes Brentford and Ipswich and dropping points against Burton and Wolves. These should be the matches where we put 3/4 past teams like we did against Brentford and Wolves last season. If we'd actually set out to attack teams from the outset maybe we'd have picked up more points than 4 from the past 18. The play offs should be sorted for us now but his negativity/poor subs have cost us (I know he's been unlucky with injuries as well over the past few weeks). Saying he's not good enough might have been harsh. In truth, I don't know what the answer is, if anyone else does, feel free to enlighten be. I do know it is frustrating though. 

[Mr Soul]

2 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Have to admit I questioned his appointment, I don't think I was alone in that. I wouldn't say getting rid of him an end of season makes him the wrong choice to begin with though. 2 seasons in modern football is a fair amount of time.

  

Im certain many of us did say ...who? but he has done enough (more than any other in recent history) to earn enough respect to not even question his position at this moment.The season is not over yet and I for one believe we in with an amazing chance of promotion, much more likely then before his appointment.

[Holmowl]

22 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

 

Everybody I hear that wants Carlos out never wanted him in the first place. Think they just want to be proved reyt.

 

We're still in the top 6 so he's doing the job

 

 

I read the same posts as you, and I don't see it that way. Many on here, including myself, were desperate for obvious good guy Carlos to succeed. He has been a complete breath of fresh-air for the club.

 

These threads would not exist if we had played better all season, or if we weren't faltering so badly at this make-or-break time. Its also understandable that it is such a hot issue right now, because the international break provides the obvious and only window to change. If he is in charge v Barnsley he will see the season out.

 

Let me also say, that I would be happy to eat the humblest of humble pies if Carlos stays and proves me wrong. I will be delighted for him, and of course for me!

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

Swap Huddersfield and Leeds for Villa and Norwich. Would the anti Carlos mob still want him out?

[Southie_Owl]

4 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

He has built a much better squad, that is for sure. But of course that is predominately down to DC providing funds.

 

However, it is pretty clear he has struggled to get the best out of his buys. He hasn't got the best out of a very costly set of strikers, nor PL-experienced midfielders and wingers.

 

The results after 38 games are on a par with last year, but the performances are far lower. I have deep concerns that he absolutely at the peak of his level, and by sticking with him we are risking throwing away a golden opportunity to gain promotion against modest competition.

 

Certainly I would change him immediately, provided someone like Pearson or Pardew are up for us.

 

 

 

Its funny isn't it how people see things differently.  Yes we are 6th but we haven't performed that well to be there and we are in a battle to keep that position come May. If the playoffs started tomorrow I would be a lot less confident about them than I was last season, and last season the other playoff teams we were facing were much better. Which says it all really. 

 

We're a bit like having Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes and getting it to finish 3rd position every race. Yes we're on the podium but we should be getting more out of the thing. I don't think it's a crime to think so 

 

The fact that unbiased pundits like Keith Andrews have noticed this too means it's not just owlstalk moaners that aren't happy with what has been produced this season 

 

[matthefish2002]

15 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

Swap Huddersfield and Leeds for Villa and Norwich. Would the anti Carlos mob still want him out?

 

I think some would. Think a lot of people including myself find our style of play a bit dull a bit too often for our £30+ tickets.

I wouldn't sack him now, enough credit in the bank for him to see out this season but need to improve for last 8 games (hopefully 11) for me to want him to stop next season.

 

[Guest Lostondisplay]

43 minutes ago, FuthaMucker said:

Less needless defeats at home this season to the likes Brentford and Ipswich and dropping points against Burton and Wolves. These should be the matches where we put 3/4 past teams like we did against Brentford and Wolves last season. If we'd actually set out to attack teams from the outset maybe we'd have picked up more points than 4 from the past 18. The play offs should be sorted for us now but his negativity/poor subs have cost us (I know he's been unlucky with injuries as well over the past few weeks). Saying he's not good enough might have been harsh. In truth, I don't know what the answer is, if anyone else does, feel free to enlighten be. I do know it is frustrating though. 

 

I agree with the needless defeats, losing at home to Leeds when they were poor at the time was bad, it seemed to kick start their season.

 

I think part of it is also down to higher expectations (which is justified based on money spent on players etc) of fans. 

 

I also agree with the very last bit, it's very frustrating!!

[Bing Cosby]

36 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

I read the same posts as you, and I don't see it that way. Many on here, including myself, were desperate for obvious good guy Carlos to succeed. He has been a complete breath of fresh-air for the club.

 

These threads would not exist if we had played better all season, or if we weren't faltering so badly at this make-or-break time. Its also understandable that it is such a hot issue right now, because the international break provides the obvious and only window to change. If he is in charge v Barnsley he will see the season out.

 

Let me also say, that I would be happy to eat the humblest of humble pies if Carlos stays and proves me wrong. I will be delighted for him, and of course for me!

 

I agree with all this

 

I don't believe there is a huge number of people who want Carlos "out" per se (though they'll always be a vocal minority). 

 

I just think many of us have come to the conclusion based on our performances this season and the squad he's assembled, that he might not be the man to take us up.

 

Incidentally, there is nothing in his previous track record, before coming to S6 to prove otherwise

 

I would genuinely loved to be proved wrong