KivoOwl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) In May/June this year, Dave Jones was taking the plaudits for a job well done (and rightly so), but many Wednesday fans, myself included, thought that deserved an awful lot of credit for the job he did here. I was seemingly in a minority when it came to believing that we would never have won promotion had he stayed in charge (no-one will be able to prove their argument one way or another), but I was certainly appreciative of the work he put in to making Wednesday the club it has become. For years we had been on our arse, feeling sorry for ourselves, settling for second best, but Megson changed all that. He instilled a belief into every single player and fan that we didn't have to fail, we didn't have to settle for failure year on year. He brought back a great pile of pride to S6, and with our new found confidence we went from strength to strength, ultimately ending in our promotion, albeit with him having left. During the summer expectations were high for another good season, but in hindsight, I believe Megson's policy while at the club has cost us just as much as it has earned us. He got his team fighting, working, bullying - but to do that he needed a certain type of player. Semedo, Rob Jones, O'Grady, Reda etc... Not technically gifted, but with hearts of lions, and ready to give their all to the cause. Their lack of ability meant our style of play was limited. But in League 1, it worked. These guys were the spine of our team, they spurred us on when we were down, and kept up the momentum when we were up. In the Championship however, it's just not good enough. The gulf in class between the two leagues has never been so high, and kick and rush football simply won't do. You need footballers, technically gifted lads who can keep the ball all day long, who can turn on a sixpence and thread a ball through the eye of a needle. Jones has signed a few of them - McCabe, Corry, Bothroyd, Barkley - but he's not been in the hotseat long enough to formulate his own team, and so we're still left with very few options in the way we play our football. We simply can't play our way around teams, because the players Megson brought to the club aren't good enough to do that. Until Jones is given the time/money to build his own team and form his own style, we'll be suffering from Megson's reign. It's Megson's fault we are where we are. He helped get us to the promised land of the Championship, but it came at a cost. And that is his true legacy* *please note, I don't believe ALL of the above to be true, but hey, it makes a difference from the usual poo about Jones ruining Megson's team/Megson would have had us winning more games/etc... right? Edited November 9, 2012 by KivoOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townend_owl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) On the other hand, if Jones had been at the helm for the whole of last season (based on his form when he did take charge), with the same players we can only assume we would have walked the league. To then suggest these same players are holding us back is a bit of a contradiction. He got those same players playing good football. We dominated matches and at this point they didn't look limited at all. Edited November 9, 2012 by townend_owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob C Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 In May/June this year, Dave Jones was taking the plaudits for a job well done (and rightly so), but many Wednesday fans, myself included, thought that deserved an awful lot of credit for the job he did here. I was seemingly in a minority when it came to believing that we would never have won promotion had he stayed in charge (no-one will be able to prove their argument one way or another), but I was certainly appreciative of the work he put in to making Wednesday the club it has become. For years we had been on our arse, feeling sorry for ourselves, settling for second best, but Megson changed all that. He instilled a belief into every single player and fan that we didn't have to fail, we didn't have to settle for failure year on year. He brought back a great pile of pride to S6, and with our new found confidence we went from strength to strength, ultimately ending in our promotion, albeit with him having left. During the summer expectations were high for another good season, but in hindsight, I believe Megson's policy while at the club has cost us just as much as it has earned us. He got his team fighting, working, bullying - but to do that he needed a certain type of player. Semedo, Rob Jones, O'Grady, Reda etc... Not technically gifted, but with hearts of lions, and ready to give their all to the cause. Their lack of ability meant our style of play was limited. But in League 1, it worked. These guys were the spine of our team, they spurred us on when we were down, and kept up the momentum when we were up. In the Championship however, it's just not good enough. The gulf in class between the two leagues has never been so high, and kick and rush football simply won't do. You need footballers, technically gifted lads who can keep the ball all day long, who can turn on a sixpence and thread a ball through the eye of a needle. Jones has signed a few of them - McCabe, Corry, Bothroyd, Barkley - but he's not been in the hotseat long enough to formulate his own team, and so we're still left with very few options in the way we play our football. We simply can't play our way around teams, because the players Megson brought to the club aren't good enough to do that. Until Jones is given the time/money to build his own team and form his own style, we'll be suffering from Megson's reign. It's Megson's fault we are where we are. He helped get us to the promised land of the Championship, but it came at a cost. And that is his true legacy* *please note, I don't believe ALL of the above to be true, but hey, it makes a difference from the usual poo about Jones ruining Megson's team/Megson would have had us winning more games/etc... right?Makes a difference from the usuall poo ? thats the biggest pile of poo i've read for a while on here Jones Out !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aj_owl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Yup. Its all Megsons fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There is one thing that's getting destroyed from the Megson era, and that's player & supporter relations. Megson did brilliantly to build that, we now have a manager that doesn't really believe in it (I don't think ) which is fine. But, theres so much bad blood. It's a horrible horrible atmosphere right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodfather Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I'd close down your internet browser and put your laptop away for the night Kivo if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Old Salt Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Megson wasn't given the same backing as jones. He wanted to sign le fondre, Marshall, Antonio but wasn't allowed. Jones was allowed to sign 15+ players to compete at this level and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Here we go with another Megson v Jones scrum as if there's some sort of inverse relationship between the two of them. Any praise for one is interpreted as a proportionate criticism of the other. I'm happy to give them both credit for where we are at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) On the other hand, if Jones had been at the helm for the whole of last season (based on his form when he did take charge), with the same players we can only assume we would have walked the league. To then suggest these same players are holding us back is a bit of a contradiction. He got those same players playing good football. We dominated matches and at this point they didn't look limited at all. Why's it a contradiction? Playing good football and dominating matches in League 1 does not mean they are good enough for the Championship. I think some of them are, but not all of them. The legacy that we brought forward from League 1 is holding us back and is likely to do so until we add more quality and experience. Edited November 9, 2012 by totemowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesvegas Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I don't want Jones sacked and he did great last season but Megsons team would have got more points on board this season than this team have imo which means your point is poo kivo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoyBeevers Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 TLDR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshTheOwl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I don't want Jones sacked and he did great last season but Megsons team would have got more points on board this season than this team have imo which means your point is poo kivo :tango: :tango: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Starling Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Megson signed Ben Marshall, Danny Batth, Rob Jones, Chris Lines, Miguel Llera all players who were more than capable at the level they played at. He also brought in Antonio so who knows what Megson would have done if he had stayed? I bet if he goes into the Championship again he will make better signings than what Jones has. I would have loved to have seen Megsons reaction to a Bothroyd performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townend_owl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Why's it a contradiction? Playing good football and dominating matches in League 1 does not mean they are good enough for the Championship. I think some of them are, but not all of them. The legacy that we brought forward from League 1 is holding us back and is likely to do so until we add more quality and experience. What i'm saying is, blaming Megson for the players he brought in when Jones inherited those players and got them playing good football and on title winning form, is a bit of a contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivoOwl Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 I'd close down your internet browser and put your laptop away for the night Kivo if I were you. Just thought i'd add to the insanity bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yowl84 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 re. the OP: That all works in theory but the problem is it's the more technically gifted players who have been letting the side down. Lets not forget - the sequence of poor results also included Rodri and Pecnik at first, though they seem miles away from starting now. There were opportunities today for Bothroyd to show his class but two decent shooting oppotunities went wide/ high and wide. Testing the keeper and forcing a corner at least would have built some momentum. Barkley's a great player but he's essentially on holiday with us; which is great in some ways but not in others. McCabe and Corry look talented but have gone missing in games as much as all our players have. All managers make better and worse decisions. Hindsight is always 20:20. On the basis of tonight, whoever signed Buxton has been our single best manager of recent times. It's just not that straight forward though. If Megson gave the team spirit that doesn't have to be anything to do with players, tactics, formations etc. It can simply be the way he goes about his job, the things he says, the way he tries to motivate the players. I don't think the groundwork for his success was simply due to signing "a certain type of player". I think it was also down to the way he went about things - which, in and of itself, had both strengths and drawbacks. Different situations call for different strengths. If we were pushing for the playoffs, DJ could well be the man. We aren't and he looks increasingly flustered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosbyKitchens Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Good god. I blame George bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 stick to history kivo you do a cracking job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobsMagicCalculator Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Kivo, you;re a lovely lad but you dont half spout some poo at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 To be honest, DJ has already brought in a lot of his own players - many of whom don't appear ready for the first team. Maguire, Rodri, Mayor, Mattock, Lee, Pecnik - and Taylor's hardly hit the ground running... Last season was a success. The DJ/Megson debate is no longer a consideration. We're 1/3 of the way through the next season. The one thing I will say is that Megson was more candid with the media and honest with his assessments of performances. DJ appears to be scratching around for positives after two poor showings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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