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4-4 Bleeding 2 - Is It That Difficult ?


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Well it's split opinion, which system we use. For me, 451 is the way forward, especially as most teams play it. We were completely overrun in midfield and were rarely able to control the midfield for any length of time. We do need some penetration though and COG, bless him, is not the answer.

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Formations mean very little in today's game.

Teams interchange players and positions throughout the match. Long gone are the days of a rigid 4-4-2 with two forwards.

The game has changed so much it's not a case of 4-4-2 v 4-5-1.

Don't get me wrong, defensive shape and discipline is vital to success (look at Spain & Barca without the ball), but just because we have one 'named' striker on the team sheet doesn't instantly equal a negative approach.

A formation is only as good as the players that are in it.

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4-4-2 = 2 wins

4-5-1 = 0 wins

we've played 5 games in a row with 4-5-1, and 5 games with 4-4-2 (since losing run and including cup) and they've yielded:

4-4-2 = 0 wins, 0 draws, 5 defeats, 3 scored, 12 conceded

4-5-1 = 0 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats, 5 scored, 7 conceded

Also performances have increased a hell of a lot since swapping to 4-5-1

I know what I'd prefer to use ATM, however, it HAS to be O'Grady upfront, Madine is not a target man. Several of us have been saying this for weeks when people were calling for him to be played instead of O'Grady

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we've played 5 games in a row with 4-5-1, and 5 games with 4-4-2 (since losing run and including cup) and they've yielded:

4-4-2 = 0 wins, 0 draws, 5 defeats, 3 scored, 12 conceded

4-5-1 = 0 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats, 5 scored, 7 conceded

Also performances have increased a hell of a lot since swapping to 4-5-1

I know what I'd prefer to use ATM, however, it HAS to be O'Grady upfront, Madine is not a target man. Several of us have been saying this for weeks when people were calling for him to be played instead of O'Grady

what about before the losing run?

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what about before the losing run?

Who cares about before the losing run? That was a long time ago, get over it. What matters is what's happened since the awful run and how to address it, and by looking at it there is a very slight improvement. Even if you just look at the performances you can still see it

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A few weeks ago some were suggesting that we opted to a 451 to help us out defensively. That appears to be what Jones has done. At the end of the day, the constant switching of formations won't work. 451 can work,providing players get close enough to the forward man and the players fit the system. 442 will probably leave you slightly open in this division, especially if your wingers are Antonio and Johnson who will prefer to the do the attacking side rather than the defensive side. That leaves the two centre midfielders incredibly open and Wednesday are exposed. The 451 will allow Wednesday to control the game and allow the better ball players like Ross Barkley and the lad Corry to have the ball and get closer to the forward with the added protection that there in an extra man in midfield to cover them.

I personally wouldn't switch from the 451. I very much prefer it to 442. But I guess it depends on the service being given to the front man and how Jones wants to use the system.

Bang on lad.

It's how we're set up and told to play within the system. This is why it's not working.

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Guest JC Saviour

No but we've looked a lot more solid with it, we've even needed 3 goals to win the 2 games we have won? Hardly anyone plays 4-4-2 nowadays. Had we had a decent central striker who knows where the net is and can fashion a chance on his own against Leeds and last night then we would've pi$$ed both games.

The only way any team can play a 4-5-1 is with a decent striker. End of argument because we ain't got one. This formation with the current crop of players will certainly get the team relegated. We need goals to win games, unless Jones is hoping for nil nils every sodding game. In the last few games, I wonder how many clear cut chances we have had, but DJ still persists in sticking with the same old formation but with different players. Never in a month of Sundays is it going to work.
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The only way any team can play a 4-5-1 is with a decent striker. End of argument because we ain't got one. This formation with the current crop of players will certainly get the team relegated. We need goals to win games, unless Jones is hoping for nil nils every sodding game. In the last few games, I wonder how many clear cut chances we have had, but DJ still persists in sticking with the same old formation but with different players. Never in a month of Sundays is it going to work.

We have got one.. Jay Bothroyd.

Perfect for the one man up top role.

Problem is we don't have the quality wide to take Bothroyds place.

JJ & Antonio cannot play in the same team. They're too similar and do not produce consistent enough delivery.

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Guest JC Saviour

We have got one.. Jay Bothroyd.

Perfect for the one man up top role.

Problem is we don't have the quality wide to take Bothroyds place.

JJ & Antonio cannot play in the same team. They're too similar and do not produce consistent enough delivery.

I agree but I think Bothroyd is playing better now out wide. If only we had someone decent for him to play into. That is the key area where DJ,MM have to resolve quickly. We need a striker who is capable of putting half decent chances away. Apart from, there isn't an awful lot wrong with the team.
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We have got one.. Jay Bothroyd.

Perfect for the one man up top role.

Problem is we don't have the quality wide to take Bothroyds place.

JJ & Antonio cannot play in the same team. They're too similar and do not produce consistent enough delivery.

We're in big trouble arent we?

For me we need to sign another couple of players. I know that has been identified as a possible cause of our bad run but for me it was right to do the surgery - Its the way its been performed that has been pretty disastrous.

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I agree but I think Bothroyd is playing better now out wide. If only we had someone decent for him to play into. That is the key area where DJ,MM have to resolve quickly. We need a striker who is capable of putting half decent chances away. Apart from, there isn't an awful lot wrong with the team.

Yes Bothroyd is playing well, but it's hardly surprising coming from a quality footballer. Ultimately though, he's best up front, his career has proved this. He has the all round game to play up front on his own and he's got the goals in him. The problem though is getting him the service.

Basically it's either..

A) Bring a striker in and keep Bothroyd out of position wide.

B) Bring in a wide player with consistent delivery, who will help us play either 4-4-2 (we can't with JJ & Antonio) or 4-5-1 and play Bothroyd up front where he's played all his career.

C) Bring in both.......

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I think 433 is the better system but you need to have players who fit the system and it takes a long time to get a team playing effectively.

I reckon players are either goal scorers or not. Irrespective of position or system they will score. Eg reda.

At the moment we just don't have enough of them in the team.

Edited by oldishowl
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