Guest utOwlz Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 (edited) His "tools" (euphemism?) to do the job are the same "tools" that have kept the club in the CCC for 2-3 seasons It was always going to happen though eventually (us going down) with the players we were signing, who signed our players this season? Edited April 19, 2010 by utOwlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I don't get that way of thinking tbh 12 months ago those same players finished about 15 points above relegation How was it inevitable they would get relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I don't get that way of thinking tbh 12 months ago those same players finished about 15 points above relegation How was it inevitable they would get relegated? Those same players battered Preston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I thought the draw was a reasonably fair result to be honest. Two very poor sides on show and neither had the quality or guile to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and claim the 3 points. If Blackwell doesn't get it right in the market for United in the summer then they could quite easily have the sort of season that we are having now? Back to us and upfront the front 4? just didn't work. Clarke just idled around, Tudgay just found himself lost (how one player can go from what he was last season to what he has been like this season is one of the biggest mystery's to me and probably one of the main reasons why we're probably on our way down) JJ usually turns it on in derbys but never found himself on the ball enough or in areas where he could stretch United. Varney was arguably the best of our forwards but apart from the assist for our goal and one or two dangerous breakaways didn't do a great deal else. I've moaned about our midfield a lot this season (Potter and JOC were better than usual yesterday but that's not saying a lot) but ultimately it's our lack of real quality in our attacking dept. which has cost us big time. 18 or 19 games during the campaign without scoring a single goal is the biggest statistic that has put us where we are. I couldn't believe Irvine's substitution yesterday, you wait 81 minutes before making a change which should've be made 30 mins earlier then you bring on a player who in truth is not going to have much more of an impact on the game. It was crying out for Jeffers or Esajas but our manager obviously thought otherwise. I'm not really looking forward to the future under Irvine whether it's still as a Championship club or most likely in League 1. Granted he's tightened up the defence and I'm sure we are all grateful for this but to win games you have to score goals and whether the crop of attacking players are good enough or not/ (which in fairness they obviously aren't) surely you have to adapt somehow in order to get us the goals that we need. His seemingly inability to do this so far surely puts a massive question mark whether he is the long term answer for this club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest utOwlz Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I don't get that way of thinking tbh 12 months ago those same players finished about 15 points above relegation How was it inevitable they would get relegated? Because they arent actually that good isnt it obvious, with a bit of luck (which we got last season) we are cabable of mid table at best, but without it were relegation contenders, i can think back last season to a hell of a lot of games where i thought "we didnt deserve to win that" but this season we havnt been clinical enough and have been unlucky in far too many of them, its sad really, but inevitable, we need money/investment its as simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 (edited) Well actually to be honest i don't think if a team finishes firmly in midtable and 5 wins above the relegation zone, that it is obvious they are a poor squad and inevitbaly gonna be relegated the following season. By that reckoning it's inevitable Middlesborough or the pigs are nailed on for relegation next season Edited April 19, 2010 by scram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest intercity0wl Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 His "tools" (euphemism?) to do the job are the same "tools" that have kept the club in the CCC for 2-3 seasons But new better and more expensive tools have come onto the market, but alas we have or will not spend any money on bringing our tool kit up to date. In the main the clubs who have invested in the tools ( whether they can afford them or not) are the ones who will be outside the Premier league factory gates in August waiting to start their new contracts that will earn them millions for at least three years even if their membership is withdrawn after 10 months, and even then most of their new tools will be worth alot more in Football Ad mag than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Judge Irvine NEXT SEASON when he can make his own signings, how anyone can blame Irvine for our relegation is beyond me, get real people he has no tools to do his job, Brian Laws wasted very good money on garbage players and that includes the bench players so even if he brings on the players from the bench that you all want to see, we would still be poo ! Give Irvine time and judge him next season So you believe the club were already resigned to relegation months ago and brought Irvine here with the remit of simply being given the chance to bring in new players regardless of what league we are in? Wake up and stop making excuses. Irvine was brought into the club to keep this team in this division. The simple matter of fact is that if he doesn't do that, then he has failed. He was not brought here to take us down but give it a good go with his own squad next season in League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 We weren't fighting for the title though Among our peer clubs we have a squad who has kept the team in this division for 2-3 years - they haven't all strengthened relative to us We've been incredibly fortunate in many ways that one club has made no attempt to stay in the division and another have been dragged into it from nowhere after losing 10 points and having to field kids, reserves and anybody they have been allowed to keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandwhitematt Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Absolute load of rubbish most of this, I've made some points regarding the subs and why the continually ineffective Jeffers and Esajas weren't called for on about page 3. At the end of the day, they have time and time again failed to produce, so why would yesterday have been different? If anything it would have cost us a point that could still keep us up if Palace get a draw next Monday. Without it a Palace draw against WBA would have sent us down (assuming we lose at Cardiff). Wednesday fans love someone to blame though, so it may aswell be Irvine, despite him having to somehow work with one of the worst squads we have had for many a year. We aren't going to get any points playing open football (see Brian Laws this year til he got sacked), so the only thing he can do until he can ship some out is play anti-football. The arguement that this is a similar squad to last year and the one before is irrelevant, because in them years we had key players firing. This year, our 'main man' has not turned up, and we have looked distinctly mediocre. Would any of our players (bar Grant, JJ, JOC) get anywhere near another CCC team? At the end of the day, its still in our own hands, and it will still probably go down to the last match. But it isn't Irvine who is missing the blatant chances, and he can do nothing about it. The fact is people either dont want to be there, or aren't good enough, and until the summer there is nothing Irvine can do. People can whinge for people like Gray to play, depsite his legs having gone, for Jeffers to play, despite him having done nothing in 3 years here, for Esajas to play, despite him having the odd average game every 6 months, for Macallister to play, despite us already having someone who does a better job in JOC (and if you think Macca and JOC would be anything like positive football you're in for a shock) etc etc. I still think he is a good man for the job, he just needs to ride out this bit now. I can't wait to see him have a go at assembling his own squad though, and actually instilling the work ethic into them we need to be successful. Until we've given him a proper chance though, how can we judge? If we go down, then we go down, but I'd be 100% confident in Irvine getting us back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest utOwlz Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 So you believe the club were already resigned to relegation months ago and brought Irvine here with the remit of simply being given the chance to bring in new players regardless of what league we are in? Wake up and stop making excuses. Irvine was brought into the club to keep this team in this division. The simple matter of fact is that if he doesn't do that, then he has failed. He was not brought here to take us down but give it a good go with his own squad next season in League One. Ok then your right sack Irvine and also LS can flip off too because surely he has also failed, he appointed Irvine and he came in to deliver investment and....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest utOwlz Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 (edited) Absolute load of rubbish most of this, I've made some points regarding the subs and why the continually ineffective Jeffers and Esajas weren't called for on about page 3. At the end of the day, they have time and time again failed to produce, so why would yesterday have been different? If anything it would have cost us a point that could still keep us up if Palace get a draw next Monday. Without it a Palace draw against WBA would have sent us down (assuming we lose at Cardiff). Wednesday fans love someone to blame though, so it may aswell be Irvine, despite him having to somehow work with one of the worst squads we have had for many a year. We aren't going to get any points playing open football (see Brian Laws this year til he got sacked), so the only thing he can do until he can ship some out is play anti-football. The arguement that this is a similar squad to last year and the one before is irrelevant, because in them years we had key players firing. This year, our 'main man' has not turned up, and we have looked distinctly mediocre. Would any of our players (bar Grant, JJ, JOC) get anywhere near another CCC team? At the end of the day, its still in our own hands, and it will still probably go down to the last match. But it isn't Irvine who is missing the blatant chances, and he can do nothing about it. The fact is people either dont want to be there, or aren't good enough, and until the summer there is nothing Irvine can do. People can whinge for people like Gray to play, depsite his legs having gone, for Jeffers to play, despite him having done nothing in 3 years here, for Esajas to play, despite him having the odd average game every 6 months, for Macallister to play, despite us already having someone who does a better job in JOC (and if you think Macca and JOC would be anything like positive football you're in for a shock) etc etc. I still think he is a good man for the job, he just needs to ride out this bit now. I can't wait to see him have a go at assembling his own squad though, and actually instilling the work ethic into them we need to be successful. Until we've given him a proper chance though, how can we judge? If we go down, then we go down, but I'd be 100% confident in Irvine getting us back up. Agree with everything you say, sadly there are now people starting to turn on Alan Irvine because they like to blame someone, dont see any of these people blaming Laws or Strafford for that matter Edited April 19, 2010 by utOwlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Agree with everything you say, sadly there are now people starting to turn on Alan Irvine because they like to blame someone, dont see any of these people blaming Laws or Strafford for that matter I agree. I like this no blame culture. Much nicer. 7 hours in the car yesterday (again) but hey ho, got to go, Camberwick Green is on soon, followed by Postman Pat. My favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Ok then your right sack Irvine and also LS can flip off too because surely he has also failed, he appointed Irvine and he came in to deliver investment and....... Laughable. Do you want your dummy back? Like it or not Irvine was brought here to keep the club in The Championship. He was not borught here on the expexctation that yes, we were going down (back at the start of January? So the club knew we were going down 5 months before the season ended?). He was brought here, with 5 months of the season left to play, to keep the team in this division. If he doesn't achieve that, then he has failed. If the team gets relegated, that is the fault of Laws, It is the fault of the players and it is the fault of Irvine. Irvine has had long enough with this team to try and enforce some upward momentum. You can't give him a free ride on the basis that he needs to work with his own players. Or do you actually think Irvine was brought here with no expectations for the rest of this season and to "bring in his own players" in League One? Give over.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Agree with everything you say, sadly there are now people starting to turn on Alan Irvine because they like to blame someone, dont see any of these people blaming Laws or Strafford for that matter Then you've either not read many threads or only seeing what you wanna see Of course if we go down it will be multifactorial - but the thing with Mr Irvine is that his role is being brought into sharp focus - Brian Laws has gone and we can blame him and mock him all we like but that won't change how we progress from here. People are asking if the current manager is the correct man for the job if he fails in the stated aim of keeping the club up - because people can stamp their feet and spit the dummy all they like but he had enough time to keep us up. As of today all he has done is kept pace with the other clubs in the relegation zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Fact number one. AI has had 21 games in order to pull us away from the relegation zone and thus far has failed. Fact number two, he knew full well what his remit was when he took the job, he was the modern man who LS said we were lucky to get, I think what he meant to say was he was the cheap option. If we go down he has to take a huge share of the blame regardless of whose players they were. At some point someone has to take some responsibility & I'm sick to the core of hearing about supporters not coming to games & not buying ST's & the blame being layed at our door. Managers live or die by their results & until we stop this revolving door policy at S6 with regards to managers then nothing will change. There are people in the boardroom of whom questions must be asked if we go down & what are they physically bringing to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivoOwl Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 How far adrfit were we when he came in? We need to win at Cardiff on Saturday or we can be relegated on Monday. I just hope to god Irvine doesn't think a point will be a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalowlisback Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 Agree with everything you say, sadly there are now people starting to turn on Alan Irvine because they like to blame someone, dont see any of these people blaming Laws or Strafford for that matter I blame Laws for leaving us in this position, then LS for waiting too long to sack him, then LS again for appointing Irvine, then Irvine for being too negative, and spunking a good chunk of our loose change on Soares, who was **** under Laws, and is equally **** under Irvine. We've been crying out for another striker for ages, we let (the often injured) Sodje go, and never replaced him, why? Above all I blame the players, but other managers somehow get poorer squads to raise their game - why can't our manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest utOwlz Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 (edited) Laughable. Do you want your dummy back? Like it or not Irvine was brought here to keep the club in The Championship. He was not borught here on the expexctation that yes, we were going down (back at the start of January? So the club knew we were going down 5 months before the season ended?). He was brought here, with 5 months of the season left to play, to keep the team in this division. If he doesn't achieve that, then he has failed. If the team gets relegated, that is the fault of Laws, It is the fault of the players and it is the fault of Irvine. Irvine has had long enough with this team to try and enforce some upward momentum. You can't give him a free ride on the basis that he needs to work with his own players. Or do you actually think Irvine was brought here with no expectations for the rest of this season and to "bring in his own players" in League One? Give over.. Grow up muppet, i didnt say that, i agree with most of what you say, he does have to take SOME blame, but the reaction on here is as though its all his fault, when in reality its mostly Laws fault, or do you dispute this too? He was brought in to keep us up your right, but it was never garanteed he would do that, he is trying to keep us up, and maybe just maybe he will. So in your eyes Irvine was brought in to keep us up and if he doesnt he has failed, so hasnt Strafford come in to bring investment into the club? he has also failed that was my point Edited April 19, 2010 by utOwlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deleted member Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 How far adrfit were we when he came in? We need to win at Cardiff on Saturday or we can be relegated on Monday. I just hope to god Irvine doesn't think a point will be a good result. Bang on Set off 'not to lose' in this one - and Palace will know that a win sends us down if they can beat WBA on the Monday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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